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Offseason Talk 2019

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I am sure that Dundon ain't cheap but why would you pay $4M for a 1st rounder?   I would think you could spend that same money on a fairly good proven free agent.  

I am curious what are the stats on 1st rounders making a real impact to making or breaking a team?   Seems like Edmonton has a boat load of 1st rounders and that sure

hasn't helped them out much.   I will never understand the Marleau trade. 

 

Just to make sure y'all don't bring the heat down on me please let it be known that this years draft for the Canes was brilliant.  The recent trades were decent.  I am very positive that more is on the way and this team is going to make some noise this year.   Marleau trade ??

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1 hour ago, snuffy72 said:

I am sure that Dundon ain't cheap but why would you pay $4M for a 1st rounder?   I would think you could spend that same money on a fairly good proven free agent.

 

Short-term vs. long-term thinking.

 

I doubt we can land an impact free agent for  3.8 million, and you have that free agent for only one year.

 

If that first rounder makes the NHL, now you a player for multiple years on a cheap contract that you have control of.

 

Also, that 1st-rounder could be used as part of a trade, and you see how reluctant teams are to part with first rounders.

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3 hours ago, snuffy72 said:

I am sure that Dundon ain't cheap but why would you pay $4M for a 1st rounder?   I would think you could spend that same money on a fairly good proven free agent.  

I am curious what are the stats on 1st rounders making a real impact to making or breaking a team?   Seems like Edmonton has a boat load of 1st rounders and that sure

hasn't helped them out much.   I will never understand the Marleau trade. 

 

Just to make sure y'all don't bring the heat down on me please let it be known that this years draft for the Canes was brilliant.  The recent trades were decent.  I am very positive that more is on the way and this team is going to make some noise this year.   Marleau trade ??

Not that we have done it so far, but that first round pick is also currency that could be used to trade for immediate help. I would say the jury is still out on Dundon being “cheap”, but as long as the cap hit this year doesn’t keep us from signing a #1 goalie and the players needed to fill out the team, buying an extra #1 pick was a smart move. I do hate that we helped Toronto out of their cap hell, but I read Phoenix and maybe others were probably going to do a similar deal, so I guess they would have gotten rid of Marleau’s contract one way or the other. By doing the deal, we get the extra first rounder. 

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To your point, though, Snuffy, Murphy, Boychuck and Paradis all fall into the category of first round picks that didn’t amount to anything for the Canes. And they were drafted higher than Toronto’s pick is likely to be. Fleury, Bean and Gauthier have yet to really make an impact for the Canes, though I think one or more will have their chance this year. Too soon to judge them, though Fleury is 5 years removed from the draft. Hopefully this is his year to break through.

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3 hours ago, snuffy72 said:

I will never understand the Marleau trade.

On the surface, I agree that the Marleau trade is a head scratcher, and decidedly one sided, allowing Toronto to maneuver around their Cap situation and sign critical players, while putting us tighter in ours and yielding an unknown. For those arguing that the #1 pick they traded all this for is a later pick, followed by reasoning that Murphy, Boychuk and Paradis were busts, I answer that, Aren't most picks past the top echelon crap shoots? Most of a team's picks are predicated on scouting competence anyway, and it appears to me at least that our scouts have been hitting better lately (post Murphy, Boychuck and Paradis). In addition, as others have pointed out, picks are currency if used properly, however Waddell apparently chose not to do this in this last draft?

 

But what I keep running thru my head is what I believe was the other component in this trade that was not so obvious. Isn't it possible that Waddell by being an outlet for Dubas, garnered a favor from him? I would like to think that the more help our GM doles out, the more favorable trades may work? Networking is critical in business and I just think that was part of the mindset here. I was hoping that we might see something in this current off season, so I'll keep my fingers crossed on that.

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13 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

On the surface, I agree that the Marleau trade is a head scratcher, and decidedly one sided, allowing Toronto to maneuver around their Cap situation and sign critical players, while putting us tighter in ours and yielding an unknown. For those arguing that the #1 pick they traded all this for is a later pick, followed by reasoning that Murphy, Boychuk and Paradis were busts, I answer that, Aren't most picks past the top echelon crap shoots? Most of a team's picks are predicated on scouting competence anyway, and it appears to me at least that our scouts have been hitting better lately (post Murphy, Boychuck and Paradis). In addition, as others have pointed out, picks are currency if used properly, however Waddell apparently chose not to do this in this last draft?

 

But what I keep running thru my head is what I believe was the other component in this trade that was not so obvious. Isn't it possible that Waddell by being an outlet for Dubas, garnered a favor from him? I would like to think that the more help our GM doles out, the more favorable trades may work? Networking is critical in business and I just think that was part of the mindset here. I was hoping that we might see something in this current off season, so I'll keep my fingers crossed on that.

 

Well . . . on another board someone speculated a Faulk for Kapanen trade after the Leafs pay Kapanen's $3.7m signing bonus on July 1st.  He based it on the fact that the bonus is almost exactly the amount it cost us to buy out Marleau.   I do think $3.8m actual dollars on top of eating Marleau's $6.5 cap hit is a bit steep for Toronto's 1st, but still, I can't see a "rental"  Faulk returning Kapanen at only $700k for the first year.  Maybe it would be dependenton Faulk reaching an agreement to an extension at a reasonable AAV? 

 

I think all this is pretty far fetched, but if it actually did play out, these guys aren't just playing chess, they're playing 3d chess.

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9 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

 

Well . . . on another board someone speculated a Faulk for Kapanen trade after the Leafs pay Kapanen's $3.7m signing bonus on July 1st.  He based it on the fact that the bonus is almost exactly the amount it cost us to buy out Marleau.   I do think $3.8m actual dollars on top of eating Marleau's $6.5 cap hit is a bit steep for Toronto's 1st, but still, I can't see a "rental"  Faulk returning Kapanen at only $700k for the first year.  Maybe it would be dependenton Faulk reaching an agreement to an extension at a reasonable AAV? 

 

I think all this is pretty far fetched, but if it actually did play out, these guys aren't just playing chess, they're playing 3d chess.

Interesting notions Kjun and Lake. I heard it mentioned that for the Leafs, trading Kapanen would be easier if he were signed to a decent deal, which he is. To build on what you're saying, Faulk would have much more value if he'd sign with and wanted to play for, his new team, which he might in Toronto. All of these scenarios are by definition unlikely, but this is not far fetched.

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23 hours ago, AWACSooner said:

Haula qualifies 

Big if on how he responds from MCL and Meniscus surgery.

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7 hours ago, remkin said:

Interesting notions Kjun and Lake. I heard it mentioned that for the Leafs, trading Kapanen would be easier if he were signed to a decent deal, which he is. To build on what you're saying, Faulk would have much more value if he'd sign with and wanted to play for, his new team, which he might in Toronto. All of these scenarios are by definition unlikely, but this is not far fetched.

Could Toronto even fit Faulk’s current contract under the cap? His cap hit is higher than Kapanen’s.

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1 hour ago, slapshot02 said:

Big if on how he responds from MCL and Meniscus surgery.

Although not an Orthopedic Surgeon, the unusual part of that is the meniscus. MCL and ACL are the more common, even both together, but I'd venture that the meniscus is the tricky part but definitely not incapacitating? Ironically, I had a medial meniscus tear and repaired in 1965 (yeah I'm ancient) and never had problems with it again? I don't play hockey, but did stay in a Holiday Inn last night. 

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I was going to post this a couple of days ago but...

 

For those who may have missed it Brind’Amour said that he spoke to Haula after the trade. Haula said that he feels great, and as far as the injury goes “he said he doesn’t even think about it.”

 

FWIW

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21 minutes ago, Kyrule said:

I was going to post this a couple of days ago but...

 

For those who may have missed it Brind’Amour said that he spoke to Haula after the trade. Haula said that he feels great, and as far as the injury goes “he said he doesn’t even think about it.”

 

FWIW

Is there ever a player who during his first convo with a new coach would say something different about his recent injury? There is no second chance to make first impression.

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23 minutes ago, Bonivan said:

Is there ever a player who during his first convo with a new coach would say something different about his recent injury? There is no second chance to make first impression.

Please stop being so logical, but you are correct. I mean what else would he say, no coach, I likely will miss a big part of this year? However, as I pointed out, the so called "unusual" part of the injury that his surgeon reputedly commented upon is not as I feared a complicated problem, I don't believe, but just the rarer combination of the 2 structure injury AND the physiological mechanism that caused them. I'll do a little checking with my Orthopod and get back to y'all on that?

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Not sure what topic heading I should use for this as definitely not Player Trade, but just curious if any word out yet on goalie coach replacement? Thought I'd read somewhere that the asst. coach was pretty good, but just wondering, like the Checkers HC vacancy, if there was any scuttlebutt? Guess a replacement coach for our goalies hopefully is predicated on whom we end up with there?

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2 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

Although not an Orthopedic Surgeon, the unusual part of that is the meniscus. MCL and ACL are the more common, even both together, but I'd venture that the meniscus is the tricky part but definitely not incapacitating? Ironically, I had a medial meniscus tear and repaired in 1965 (yeah I'm ancient) and never had problems with it again? I don't play hockey, but did stay in a Holiday Inn last night. 

I've had meniscus tears, ACL tears, and a total knee replacement.  Do I qualify for a free stay at Holiday Inn?

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54 minutes ago, Bonivan said:

Is there ever a player who during his first convo with a new coach would say something different about his recent injury? There is no second chance to make first impression.

 

That’s why I put FWIW at the end.

 

I wouldn’t even bother to mention it but there seems to be a lot of negativity floating around for whatever reason, so I was trying to point out something potentially positive.

 

God forbid someone might consider the alternative, that he might actually be fine and be an important piece for us.

 

No, we’ll just continue to *edit* about everything and assume the worst regarding all of our trades/moves.

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18 minutes ago, beboplar said:

I've had meniscus tears, ACL tears, and a total knee replacement.  Do I qualify for a free stay at Holiday Inn?

 

I've torn several pairs of pants and once tore up a parking ticket.  :thumbsup:

Edited by LakeLivin
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Kyrule, I hope you're not aiming your comment at me, as I've been very positive about this player and his surgery?

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1 minute ago, LakeLivin said:

 

I've torn several pairs of pants and once tore up a parking ticket (didn't throw it away, though).  :thumbsup:

But, did you repair them, and rewear?

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18 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

But, did you repair them, and rewear?

 

Cut 'em off for "work" shorts.  Does that count?

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6 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

 

Cut 'em off for "work" shorts.  Does that count?

Yep, as long as their performance remained?

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29 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

Kyrule, I hope you're not aiming your comment at me, as I've been very positive about this player and his surgery?

 

No Kjun, not at you.

 

It’s just annoying seeing the constant negativity and questioning about the moves we are making when the logic seems clear, or at least understandable. Like I said free agency  hasn’t even started and there is still a lot of business to be done, but people would rather just throw out complaints or jump on the TD is cheap bandwagon before things even play out.

 

I guess it’s easier to just complain than think things through or look at the bigger picture.

 

Then you try to be positive (which is rare for me) and Captain Obvious shows up.

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3 hours ago, OBXer said:

Get your tickets now

 

 
 
 

Hoping someone drops gloves with Domi at puck drop...

Edited by AWACSooner

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I think they need to acquire at least 2 right-handed forwards in free agency; they have none right now (if Williams leaves)

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