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Offseason Talk 2019

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Now, in general I'm really not much of a pro sports fan save for the NHL, but do follow the Panthers. I must say though that I've been very impressed with the way David Tepper has stepped in and run that organization with abounding class. I thought early on that Tom Dundon was going to be a parallel force to this team, and was willing to ignore some of his quirkiness, which I'm sure my thoughts will not cause him a moment's pause, but some of these moves are curious? Granted none of us  know WTH is going on but the way things seem to be headed is, to say the least, not very comforting?

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Well . it seems to me that Tom Dundon  is clearly  not scared of the team crumbling   into nothing .   Looks like peter karmanos  2.0  right now ! 

Edited by Canesfanforever

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7 minutes ago, Canesfanforever said:

Well . it seems to me that Tom Dundon  is clearly  not scared of the team crumbling   into nothing .   Looks like peter karmanos  2.0  right now ! 

What are you talking about? He isn’t going to pay our GM the same as others because our GM isn’t the same as others.

 

its a shake up of the traditional hockey world but crumbling into nothing?  The guy has only spent the most amount of money as PK and it’s been smart money.

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1 hour ago, gocanes0506 said:

What are you talking about? He isn’t going to pay our GM the same as others because our GM isn’t the same as others.

 

its a shake up of the traditional hockey world but crumbling into nothing?  The guy has only spent the most amount of money as PK and it’s been smart money.

It's also a stupid way to lose  management that can keep the team a float .    This is how you systematically  destroy what was built .     

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6 hours ago, Canesfanforever said:

It's also a stupid way to lose  management that can keep the team a float .    This is how you systematically  destroy what was built .     

The great thing about a group think is one person doesn’t make the group.  Unless TD replaces a majority of the group with poor decision makers, management won’t systematically destroy anything.

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On 8/3/2019 at 6:09 PM, bluedevilcane said:

If even Waddell has soured on working for Dundon, I hope Rod isn’t next

 

7 hours ago, Canesfanforever said:

It's also a stupid way to lose  management that can keep the team a float .    This is how you systematically  destroy what was built .     

And here come the Chicken Litters.  Same old tired arguments that Dundon is cheap.  Lets just work to kill optimism shall we?

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I'm not completely joking here... But maybe some of you can apply for GM job?

 

My biggest worry about getting someone outside the system and NHL community is access.  I fear that if TD were to name a non-traditional person as GM they may not have access to all the right people.  This person may have great management and negotiating skills (consider, a business contract negotiator), but if other organizations won't even take their call?

 

If TD is completely serious about this head of committee thing, and DW leaves, TD would be wise to make a diversity hire here.  Hear me out...  Not just for numbers or look, but for access.  Hire a really good person who falls outside of the NHL norm (i.e. White Guy), and other organizations would be compelled to talk.  If this person is good, the other orgs will listen and a new relationship would open up.  Having a person of color or a woman as GM would be a coup for the NHL and the Canes.  This kind of setup is ripe to do it.  And there are plenty of folks out there waiting for such a chance who would do a fantastic job.

 

However, if TD just wants to hire one of his party buddies.  Well, forget it.

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I think one thing all Dundon fans, detractors and many of us in-between can agree on is Dundon is never boring

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The sky fell last offseason because DW was named GM; now it's falling because there's the possibility he's leaving.  We have such a fun fan base.

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31 minutes ago, wxray1 said:

I'm not completely joking here... But maybe some of you can apply for GM job?

 

I did apply for the operations job they had open a month ago. SuRpRiSiNgLy I didn’t hear anything back.  

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1 hour ago, wxray1 said:

I'm not completely joking here... But maybe some of you can apply for GM job?

 

My biggest worry about getting someone outside the system and NHL community is access.  I fear that if TD were to name a non-traditional person as GM they may not have access to all the right people.  This person may have great management and negotiating skills (consider, a business contract negotiator), but if other organizations won't even take their call?

 

If TD is completely serious about this head of committee thing, and DW leaves, TD would be wise to make a diversity hire here.  Hear me out...  Not just for numbers or look, but for access.  Hire a really good person who falls outside of the NHL norm (i.e. White Guy), and other organizations would be compelled to talk.  If this person is good, the other orgs will listen and a new relationship would open up.  Having a person of color or a woman as GM would be a coup for the NHL and the Canes.  This kind of setup is ripe to do it.  And there are plenty of folks out there waiting for such a chance who would do a fantastic job.

 

However, if TD just wants to hire one of his party buddies.  Well, forget it.

That seems kinda racist  , don't you think ?   Im All for Meritocracy .  You never give a job to someone based on  skin color or sex  for " diversity purposes alone "  .   TAKE THAT SJW  BS   AND THROW IT OUT THE WINDOW !   The most qualified  person  should always be the first in line for the job   ,  anything else is just  dumb !    

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2 hours ago, cc said:

And here come the Chicken Litters.  Same old tired arguments that Dundon is cheap.  Lets just work to kill optimism shall we?

 The proof is in the pudding .   He might have money for a defunct  football league  but when it come to his employees  on the other hand  it's a say bet  Dundon  is a shrewd man  when it comes to his riches .    

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It's hard to argue with TD's instincts so far. However, I think it is fair to have concerns about the future if he is willing to turnover his generals to keep their pay down. TD has a very short historical record with his approach. The key people in this organization were either here, or brought in by people already here. In fact, when he tried to bring in people from outside, it didn't go so well. Even though TD seems to have a good handle on using the committee, it still depends on having a good committee. 

 

TD went with Brind'Amour and Waddell, both here already. Was he brilliant, or lucky? I would argue that one way to know is time and consistency. We have not had enough time to know IMO. Overall, I think we'll end up on our feet, but I also think there is something to be said for organizational consistency over at least a few years to establish a "vision" and or "identity".

 

I get that the team has to be above any one person, but it just does seem short sighted to go el cheapo on the GM. I'm trying to figure out what the deal is with that. I'm wondering if it might be more about keeping the GM in line. Paying a huge, outlier salary to the GM might elevate him too much above the other committee members. It just can't be about the money.

 

There is reason to consider the potential downside of this approach. But I also strongly disagree with the "sky is falling" reactions. IMO for the next couple of years the guy we can least afford to lose is Brind'Amour, far more than Waddell.


If we did go outside, personally, I'd like us to go young up and coming analytical guy, but I like the things this committee has done, so hopefully it stays as is for a while.

 

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2 hours ago, cc said:

 

And here come the Chicken Litters.  Same old tired arguments that Dundon is cheap.  Lets just work to kill optimism shall we?

 

Are they related to the Cat Litters? :P  (sorry, someone was going to say it, I'll take the hit, lol)

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13 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

 

Are they related to the Cat Litters? :P  (sorry, someone was going to say it, I'll take the hit, lol)

Its all good.    Chicken litter- aka what gets cleaned from the barn in the spring is more descriptive. LOL

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8 minutes ago, remkin said:

It's hard to argue with TD's instincts so far. However, I think it is fair to have concerns about the future if he is willing to turnover his generals to keep their pay down. TD has a very short historical record with his approach. The key people in this organization were either here, or brought in by people already here. In fact, when he tried to bring in people from outside, it didn't go so well. Even though TD seems to have a good handle on using the committee, it still depends on having a good committee. 

 

TD went with Brind'Amour and Waddell, both here already. Was he brilliant, or lucky? I would argue that one way to know is time and consistency. We have not had enough time to know IMO. Overall, I think we'll end up on our feet, but I also think there is something to be said for organizational consistency over at least a few years to establish a "vision" and or "identity".

 

I get that the team has to be above any one person, but it just does seem short sighted to go el cheapo on the GM. I'm trying to figure out what the deal is with that. I'm wondering if it might be more about keeping the GM in line. Paying a huge, outlier salary to the GM might elevate him too much above the other committee members. It just can't be about the money.

 

There is reason to consider the potential downside of this approach. But I also strongly disagree with the "sky is falling" reactions. IMO for the next couple of years the guy we can least afford to loose is Brind'Amour. 


If we did go outside, personally, I'd like us to go young up and coming analytical guy, but I like the things this committee has done, so hopefully it stays as is for a while.

 

I'm thinking that right now Tulsky may be one of the more valued members of the committee.  Right from the start Dundon stated that he wanted to use analytics to help improve the organization. 

 

I also think wxray may be on to something when he alludes to the need for having someone who is what I'll broadly define as "politically astute" when it comes to dealing with other GMs. Doesn't mean it can't be someone outside the hockey community, but it does probably need to be someone who has that particular skill set.

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Hmmm, here's a potential conundrum that I just caught at a glance. Read that according to Luke DeCock article in the N&O, "NHL bylaws require the team to have a general manager UNDER CONTRACT by the end of the month". With Dundon's avowed statement it's been said, that he didn't need Waddell under contract, I just wonder how he"ll pull that off? Interesting 

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13 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

Hmmm, here's a potential conundrum that I just caught at a glance. Read that according to Luke DeCock article in the N&O, "NHL bylaws require the team to have a general manager UNDER CONTRACT by the end of the month". With Dundon's avowed statement it's been said, that he didn't need Waddell under contract, I just wonder how he"ll pull that off? Interesting 

 

I suppose you can always name an interim GM from among front office executives already under contract. This is definitely a curious situation

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29 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

 

I'm thinking that right now Tulsky may be one of the more valued members of the committee.  Right from the start Dundon stated that he wanted to use analytics to help improve the organization. 

 

I also think wxray may be on to something when he alludes to the need for having someone who is what I'll broadly define as "politically astute" when it comes to dealing with other GMs. Doesn't mean it can't be someone outside the hockey community, but it does probably need to be someone who has that particular skill set.

It's funny but I was going to mention Tulsky but thought about the length of the post (I know that's hard to believe, LOL). I fully agree. I think Tulsky is central to our player analysis. But someone still needs to decide what we value. ie: speed, grit, skill, attitude, hockey IQ, and set the vision for what we're trying to build. 

 

Still I do recall what I've referenced several times before: that we have also signed up with a consulting service that directly measures player's tendencies to create high quality chances, defensive plays, etc. etc. etc., and while that company also provides their interpretation of the data, having our own guy (Tulsky) to interpret those numbers further is a big advantage.

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The Hurricanes got the customary, I guess we have to give them one game recognition from National TV

 

Thur., March 5 Carolina Philadelphia NBCSN 7 p.m.
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2 hours ago, Canesfanforever said:

That seems kinda racist  , don't you think ?   Im All for Meritocracy .  You never give a job to someone based on  skin color or sex  for " diversity purposes alone "  .   TAKE THAT SJW  BS   AND THROW IT OUT THE WINDOW !   The most qualified  person  should always be the first in line for the job   ,  anything else is just  dumb !    

No, I'm suggesting giving someone a chance who has equal qualifications.    A traditional GM role is clearly geared only to the old white guy.  Call that racist, but that's the statistics.

 

Since TD is thinking of GM differently, and if he opens it up to non-former players, then give other people a chance.  Maybe they won't be good enough and if so, fine, hire the traditional.  Of course, maybe TD only has traditional GM types in mind.  Just an idea.  This organization has broken new ground in hires in the past.  For example, our video coach came from a non-hockey background.

 

I can't believe I even brought this up since I tend towards crazy libertarian beliefs, so maybe I drank some kool aid recently or something.

Edited by wxray1

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2 hours ago, OBXer said:

The Hurricanes got the customary, I guess we have to give them one game recognition from National TV

 

Thur., March 5 Carolina Philadelphia NBCSN 7 p.m.

That's my birthday 😊

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On 8/6/2019 at 12:45 PM, remkin said:
  • According to the NHL Network, Sebastian Aho is considered the 14th best center in the league:

The NHL Network is the NHL's PR arm. They have a vested interest in amping up the fans and jacking up the stars of tomorrow. I'm not saying SeaBass isn't good. I am saying that everything on the NHL Network is pure PR first, and objectivity isn't even a consideration.

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