Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
AWACSooner

Offseason Talk 2019

Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, cc said:

To be helpful-  I am country boy.  " In agriculture, poultry litter or broiler litter is a mixture of poultry excreta, spilled feed, feathers, and material used as bedding in poultry operations. "

So to sum up your 2 posts, I am a “chicken litter” because I believe Dundon refuses to pay market rate to any front office employees (a fact he essentially stated clearly on the record), and by the emphasis on “poultry excreta” in your definition, I guess you think that equates to being chicken ****. Think what you will. Exchanging opinions that are not always the same is part of what these boards were for, or so I thought. Should Waddell actually leave, I think that will be pretty much a clean sweep of everyone on the management side who was in place when Dundon bought majority interest in the team. Some turnover was inevitable, but not everyone. It’s concerning to me, but time will tell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

Should Waddell actually leave, I think that will be pretty much a clean sweep of everyone on the management side who was in place when Dundon bought majority interest in the team. Some turnover was inevitable, but not everyone. It’s concerning to me, but time will tell.

On one level, BDC, I get what you're saying, and why you're worried. On another though, your concern is indefensible, and I don't choose that word lightly or to provoke you. Let me explain what I mean (warning: Rem-length post to follow :blink:).

 

As you have assessed what is happening, I wonder if you're yet put yourself in Dundon's place. In case you haven't, consider:

 

You've just bought a franchise which, other than falling pretty much back-asswards into a Cup a decade ago, has been a chronic underachiever for the vast majority of 25 years under the guy you bought it from. When you took over, the guy in the GM's chair refused to make deadline deals that might have reversed that trend, despite you telling him you'd pony up the cash. So you showed him the door. We can argue about how classily it was done, but former franchise player or not, what matters in Real Business is "What have you done for me lately?" In terms of success at the level of the org where he was charged with producing it (and yes, despite some great draft moves), the answer in Ronnie's case was an unqualified "zilch."

 

(Digression: Whether Ronnie learned his passive-at-the-deadline approach from JR or not--because it may have been on El Cheapo [PK], JR nonetheless abandoned [or was forced to walk the plank of] the ship that he navigated into mediocrity--at the exact moment he realized PK was serious about selling. We'll never know which [abandoned or plank] for sure, but knowing that PK doesn't have a proactive managerial bone in his body [outside of full-on retreat, i.e., fleeing the franchise's former home in the middle of the night], my money is on JR deciding to get out while the gittin' was good. In other words, before he'd have to answer to a new sheriff, who might actually force him to defend his hare-brained moves. Which, it's turned out, is exactly the kind of sheriff TD happens to be. End of digression.)

 

So Ronnie is shown the door, and TD doesn't mince words: He's not going pay people just because they're hockey guys. People are going to have to earn their keep. Which is perfectly reasonable, given that neither of the last two GMs--the guys at the top of the hockey operations ladder--had, over the prior decade. Waddell quickly makes it extremely clear that he doesn't want the job, but TD twists his arm into taking it--and lo and behold, DW does a great job, and is nominated as GM of the year.

 

Now remember, you're looking at things from TD's perspective.

 

You tell DW: "You have a home here. We'll figure out the contract. If I wanted to fire you, you'd have known a year ago. But if you want to check out other pastures, that is your right and I encourage you to do it." That is how highly successful managers all over the Real Business landscape behave, and TD, like his also-successful-prior-to-sports-ownership buddy, Mark Cuban, is clearly trying to bring that same ethos to an industry sorely in need of it. And he pretty much says so, in just that many words.

 

So, what's happening now--whether Waddell's ask is too big for TD's liking (doubtful), or DW, as you suggest, is being "allowed" to leave, as the last vestige of the old management group (also doubtful)--really doesn't matter. TD has been very clear from Day One that he is going to run things differently.

 

So what is happening? Here's my belief.

 

By staying with the org, DW tacitly accepted TD's approach... and guess what? IT WORKED. But if DW thinks that one year of success should qualify him as GM for life (remember, he's 60 years old), he needs to see that TD is telling him exactly what he told the last guy in the org who tried to parlay a good year into a big contract: "Go ahead, see what else is out there." (I refer, of course, to one Petr Mrazek.)

 

TD said he'd do things differently, and he is. But he never said he wouldn't pay market rate. Per Luke's (silly little) blog post, that's what the hockey world mocked him as doing, but what he's said all along is that he's not going to pay GMs (or anybody else) like other teams do. That may seem like the same thing (it clearly does to Clueless Luke) but in fact, it's very different. TD is saying, "Just because you're a hockey guy and other owners have all agreed to ask 'how high?' whenever their hockey-guy GM tells them to jump doesn't mean I'm going to."

 

TD has said any number of times that he intends to spend money on the guys who actually go out and play the games. Luke can call the current Canes front office dysfunctional all he wants--some guys will write anything to get eyeballs in the off-season, and Luke has proved summer in and summer out to be one of them. But just because that earns him his keep with some newspaper company doesn't give him prescience with me. If Luke thinks this Canes FO, which got the team to the dance in its first full year, is so dysfunctional, exactly what the hell would he call the one that preceded it, which failed to do so for eight straight years?

 

When Real Businesses which have failed chronically are bought, the entire management team is very often let go, and overnight. If the Canes had been behaving more like a Real Business instead of buying into the absolute hokum that "sports is different" over the last decade, PK might still be the owner, and he might have more than one Cup to show for his quarter century in this league. If I were TD, that's sure how I'd look at it, as I think any fresh set of eyes that has been crazy successful in Real Business would.

 

So he set out to cut through the excuses and BS by telling everyone, "Prove that you deserve to be here." And he has freed everyone--including his goalie, his star of the future, and his heart-and-soul guy (McGinn)--to explore their options. And the result in each of those cases? Right: They came back, and Dundon paid them what the market (or a market mechanism, in McGinn's case) said they are worth, totally debunking the whole "He's not willing to pay market rate" BS that Luke and others, even now, continue to spread.

 

All of which indicates to me that the DW situation will play out one of three ways:

 

- The Wild make an offer that TD thinks is fair, he matches it, and we're good to go.

 

- The Wild hire Guerin (or another), and DW re-ups with a nice raise over what he got last year, but nothing ridiculous. And again, we're good to go.

 

Or

 

- The Wild make an offer that TD thinks is unfair, shakes DW's hand and wishes him luck, and elevates the next cowboy up, likely Dudley, to GM.

 

If scenario three plays out, everybody else moves up a rung, too (just like a Real Business). So Krepelka gets Senior VP Hockey Ops, Yorke is his Junior, and we bring in (or bring up from CLT) someone for the Player Personnel job.

 

(Digression: I'm not as convinced as others here that Tulsky, a total analytics guy with a BA and 12 years in chemistry, and no sports management credential, isn't best suited to exactly what he's doing, which he also seems to love to no end. Meanwhile, the hockey world is teeming with guys who'd love the player personnel job with this org, given what we've got in the NHL and on the farm.)

 

I'll say it one last time: TD said he'd run this org like a Real Business, and that's exactly what he's doing. I'm fine with it, because we've got 25 years of PK to prove that his way doesn't work.

 

(Sorry this was so long. It was lot more fun than what I'm supposed to be doing!)

Edited by top-shelf-1
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@top-shelf-1 usually in real business the only thing that matters is signed contract. The boss could promise you whatever he wants and may say (or actually be) that he is your friend but unless contract is signed you have nothing. So maybe DW is tied of waiting and started to look for backup options. Interesting question: since DW doesn't have GM contract with Canes at the moment how NHL would accept any deals/signings if he is the signee from the Canes side? 

Edited by Bonivan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Bonivan said:

@top-shelf-1Interesting question: since DW doesn't have GM contract with Canes at the moment how NHL would accept any deals/signings if he is the signee from the Canes side? 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Let me explain what I mean (warning: Rem-length post to follow :blink:).

You out-rem’d Rem with that one...

 

I needed to take a nap after reading that one ;)

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Bonivan said:

The boss could promise you whatever he wants and may say (or actually be) that he is your friend but unless contract is signed you have nothing.

Not true, sorry. Employment contracts are the exception in every field--except sports--except at the C-Suite level, and Waddell is not a C-suiter. On top of which, NC is an at-will employment state, rendering contracts here meaningless anyway. The only thing requiring Waddell get a contract is the NHL's rules that the GM must have one. EDIT TO ADD: posted this before seeing Legend's post re at-will. Sorry to repeat.

 

Further, your logic that a contract guarantees anything doesn't hold. Owners fire GMs summarily all the time. Finally, if Waddell actually does have nothing after all his years in the league, I wouldn't want him managing my rowboat, let alone my hockey team.

Edited by top-shelf-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Further, your logic that a contract guarantees anything doesn't hold.

Don't GMs and coaches are being paid until contract expiration even if they are fired?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Bonivan said:

Don't GMs and coaches are being paid until contract expiration even if they are fired?

If it's negotiated into the contract, yes (i.e., a severance clause). But it wouldn't surprise me if Dundon does away with those, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Top, your points are well thought out, and I’m willing to see how it plays out. Plus Dundon owns the team and can run it as he sees fit. What I said was the mass exodus was concerning, especially since I don’t see a new generation of hockey experienced managers coming in to replace those who are leaving. Concerned doesn’t mean I’m ready to give up by any means. Waddell exceeded my wildest hopes, and he may not keep pulling rabbits out his hat. We’ll see.

 

I do take issue with your last post. N.C. being an employment at will state does not make a contract meaningless. You can still fire the employee but the consequence for doing it are controlled by the contract. Maybe that’s why Dundon doesn’t like to give them out. I also worry that over time, Dundon’s approach may cause difficulty bringing in talented managers and coaches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, bluedevilcane said:

e, Dundon’s approach may cause difficulty bringing in talented managers and coaches.

Ive worked for several large corporations. I’d work him in a jiffy. His philosophy, effort and results get you paid . What’s wrong with that model? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, bluedevilcane said:

I also worry that over time, Dundon’s approach may cause difficulty bringing in talented managers and coaches.

 

 

And Karmanos' approach gave us umpteen years of Rutherford and a couple runs at Maurice.  What's your point?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most General Managers, CEO, Company Presidents, etc have contracts. Slice it anyway you want this is just foolish

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, realmdrakkar said:

 

 

And Karmanos' approach gave us umpteen years of Rutherford and a couple runs at Maurice.  What's your point?

Karmanos ran the team on a shoestring budget from day one. Lots of people here are down on JR, and I get it (the natives in Pittsburgh are getting restless), but he was never given the financial resources to compete year in year out on a level playing field. So I think you are comparing apples to oranges.I appreciate PK bringing hockey to North Carolina, but was glad to see him sell the majority stake in the team. It’s way too soon to make any final judgment on Dundon as an owner. I said I had concerns about the way he conducted his business, specifically his stated approach to hiring or retaining management employees. But it’s his team and we’ll see how it plays out. Of course I want him to be a resounding success.

 

As to Maurice, he had his faults, but coaching a budget team, he made the playoffs at least 3 times, including a SCF and ECF. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, cc said:

Ive worked for several large corporations. I’d work him in a jiffy. His philosophy, effort and results get you paid . What’s wrong with that model? 

So, results get you paid. Waddell was nominated for GM of the year, and his contract was allowed to expire. Now he’s working without a contract and exploring other job opportunities. RB took a team that had not seen the playoffs in 10 years, came within one round of the Stanley cup finals, and to my understanding, was not offered an extension to his contract or a raise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, bluedevilcane said:

RB took a team that had not seen the playoffs in 10 years, came within one round of the Stanley cup finals, and to my understanding, was not offered an extension to his contract or a raise.

Good...as much as I worship the ground he walks on, one year does not a successful coach make.  Now if we make the playoffs the next two years, then it’s time to talk long term.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, bluedevilcane said:

So, results get you paid. Waddell was nominated for GM of the year, and his contract was allowed to expire. Now he’s working without a contract and exploring other job opportunities. RB took a team that had not seen the playoffs in 10 years, came within one round of the Stanley cup finals, and to my understanding, was not offered an extension to his contract or a raise.

So if he wants to jump off the train after 1 successful year then he needs to go.  I think we have had enough of big rewards and contracts after a limited sample size.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, OBXer said:

Most General Managers, CEO, Company Presidents, etc have contracts. Slice it anyway you want this is just foolish

Easy for those of us without any skin in the game to call it foolish. (By the way, GMs not so much; C-suiters, yeah. But it remains beside the point.)

 

TD is trying to get the best deal he can by encouraging Don to do so with a competitor. It happens in Real Business every day of the week. Employees try to leverage offers into pay increases. I have a brother in law that has increased his salary over 150 percent in the last three years doing the same thing.

 

So, if Don comes back and says, "They're offering me x," the ball is in TD's court at that point, and as owner, he gets to decide if he wants to match--because he's paying the cost, as BB King sang, to be the boss.

 

This same process is just part of doing business. In fact, one of the best management books ever written suggests that managers who think they are underpaid resign, then go to HR and apply for the job again. If they're right, they'll get it back. If not, they won't. This is exactly what TD is allowing to play out, he's just using the Wild to set the price--or, if they don't make Don an offer, to confirm to Don that he's worth what Tom is offering. It worked perfectly with Aho, Mrazek, and McGinn. No reason to think it won't, one way or another, with DW. Worst case, he leaves, whether to Minny or elsewhere, and we elevate Dudley. So what?

 

I'm just not seeing the downside to running this business like any other business.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

What I said was the mass exodus was concerning, especially since I don’t see a new generation of hockey experienced managers coming in to replace those who are leaving.

Then you need to spend some time on the site's management page, looking up the guys we've got. Dudley has assistant GM experience, and the other guys I listed have paid their dues. Trust the process.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

Maybe that’s why Dundon doesn’t like to give them out. I also worry that over time, Dundon’s approach may cause difficulty bringing in talented managers and coaches.

I'll still take Dundon's hands-on proactivity over PK's fiddling while Rome burns (oh wait, it's just PK's cigar) eight days a week.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I could be mistaken but I think Dudley was shown the door in Toronto, and his previous experience was working with Waddell in Atlanta. If your opinion is that over time we can attract and retain top level management employees by giving no contracts with job security while 30 other teams are giving contracts, so be it. I don’t agree.. And making a public statement that you are not going to pay GMs what other teams pay is not helpful.

 

At any rate, the no contract scenario cuts two ways. If someone comes in and does a fantastic job, they can walk any time with no notice if someone else will pay them more. I believe there is value to stability in management. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/10/2019 at 2:43 PM, top-shelf-1 said:

Not true, sorry. Employment contracts are the exception in every field--except sports--except at the C-Suite level, and Waddell is not a C-suiter. On top of which, NC is an at-will employment state, rendering contracts here meaningless anyway. The only thing requiring Waddell get a contract is the NHL's rules that the GM must have one. EDIT TO ADD: posted this before seeing Legend's post re at-will. Sorry to repeat.

 

Further, your logic that a contract guarantees anything doesn't hold. Owners fire GMs summarily all the time. Finally, if Waddell actually does have nothing after all his years in the league, I wouldn't want him managing my rowboat, let alone my hockey team.

Top I have no idea what field you work in but in my world employment contracts are common and not just for "C suiters". Especially true when luring talent and having them relocate. I had employees from salespeople to mid level ops who I had under contract. Some I wanted signed; others who would only work if signed. When investment bankers bought my company they insisted on contracts from some employees just as I had. I also advised some folks to get iron-clad contracts if they were staying. Not much trust nor loyalty between workers and mgmt/ownership these days.

 

And I have no idea how you are mixing right-to-work laws with contracts. Try firing someone with a written contract and then not paying up and/or otherwise abiding to the terms written in such contract. That's what happens when GMs get fired. They sure as hell get paid under the conditions and duration of their contract unless they agree to some negotiated settlement.

 

Oh, and just last month I reviewed an employment contract my 25 yr. old niece in marketing was offered when accepting a new job in NYC. Sure isn't a C level employee I can tell you that.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LostInALostWorld said:

Top I have no idea what field you work in but in my world employment contracts are common and not just for "C suiters". Especially true when luring talent and having them relocate. I had employees from salespeople to mid level ops who I had under contract. Some I wanted signed; others who would only work if signed. When investment bankers bought my company they insisted on contracts from some employees just as I had. I also advised some folks to get iron-clad contracts if they were staying. Not much trust nor loyalty between workers and mgmt/ownership these days.

 

And I have no idea how you are mixing right-to-work laws with contracts. Try firing someone with a written contract and then not paying up and/or otherwise abiding to the terms written in such contract. That's what happens when GMs get fired. They sure as hell get paid under the conditions and duration of their contract unless they agree to some negotiated settlement.

 

Oh, and just last month I reviewed an employment contract my 25 yr. old niece in marketing was offered when accepting a new job in NYC. Sure isn't a C level employee I can tell you that.

Welcome aboard LIALW. Not qualified to get into this debate, but just wanted to welcome you on these threads. Hope you have fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, LostInALostWorld said:

Top I have no idea what field you work in but in my world employment contracts are common and not just for "C suiters". Especially true when luring talent and having them relocate. I had employees from salespeople to mid level ops who I had under contract. Some I wanted signed; others who would only work if signed. When investment bankers bought my company they insisted on contracts from some employees just as I had. I also advised some folks to get iron-clad contracts if they were staying. Not much trust nor loyalty between workers and mgmt/ownership these days.

 

And I have no idea how you are mixing right-to-work laws with contracts. Try firing someone with a written contract and then not paying up and/or otherwise abiding to the terms written in such contract. That's what happens when GMs get fired. They sure as hell get paid under the conditions and duration of their contract unless they agree to some negotiated settlement.

 

Oh, and just last month I reviewed an employment contract my 25 yr. old niece in marketing was offered when accepting a new job in NYC. Sure isn't a C level employee I can tell you that.

The use of employment contracts is as individual as the ownership and boards of every company, and I can assure you that the vast majority of American managers and workers more broadly don't have them.

 

As for "mixing" right-to-work laws, I never said a thing about them. I said "at will" employment. They're two different things. Right-to-work states do not require union membership as terms of employment. At-will, per the link, means:

 

Quote

[...] when an employee works for an employer without a written contract that sets forth the terms of the employment relationship.  This is the situation for the vast majority of employment relationships.

 

I'm glad your niece has a contract, but it is an exception, not the rule... just as the fact that you, as an owner, were willing to give employees contracts didn't make that common either. Clearly Dundon didn't use them in his prior companies:

 

Quote

"I have found this weird since I got into the hockey business that the business people all have contracts. I never had contracts with the people that worked for me."

 

Full story here. But let's get back to the topic at hand, shall we?

 

Waddell is currently without a contract, and as such is an at-will employee in NC. Until he is back under an agreement, he can be summarily let go, without cause--and even if/when he is re-signed, whether he is owed one red cent is entirely dependent on what's in his particular agreement, under the section "Termination of employment."  

Edited by top-shelf-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ron Francis and  Don Waddell  are the teams 2nd and 3rd  gm's  the canes ever had .   Jim Rutherford  obviously was the canes one and only gm for many years .  Here is how i see them .  Starting with Rutherford 

 

1. Rutherford  his Strengths  was really good at making some  trades  and bringing in staff that could see operation  to management  and  running .   He understood how important  certain key players  were  via trade  and because of that he earned himself when he was  with the canes  ,  3 eastern conference finals , 2 stanley cup   appearances , and 1 stanley cup victory .   In his time here he also seek NHL   showcasing  in having thee NHL draft and NHL  All star game  and NHL all star draft  .  His main weaknesses  were drafting players in the draft  . ~   you could say the canes as a whole  failed over the years due to bad drafting  , key note players  he drafted  for  the canes  Eric Staal , Cam Ward ,  Erik Cole ,  Niclas Wallin , Brett Pesce  ,Brock Mcginn , Jacob Slavin , Jeff Skinner  ,  Elias Linholm , 

 

2. Ron Francis  :  His Strengths  were Drafting   key players for the canes  and hiring for scouting  !  Francis  also saw operation  in need for Key  management   training .   Francis time with the canes was short lived with the canes but because of his  eye for talent  he  helped in some trades  that helped the canes  in big  ways via draft but will get remembered for mostly bad trades .   His Weakness was not making  impact trades for the betterment of the canes .  Getting Teravainen  was possibly his greatest trade   but his worse trade  could be said  getting Darling   .  Key note players  he Drafted  for the canes ,  and it's a huge list !  Hayden Fleury , Alex Nedeljkovic  , Warren Foegele , Lucas Wallmark , Clark Bishop  / That was all in one draft from 2014  !!!!! )  Noah Hanifin   SABASTION AHO , / That was his 2nd year as gm !!!! insane !!!! )  Jake Bean , Julien  Gauthier  , Martin Necas , Morgan Geekie ,  As you can see  he had an eye for talent  and when he sought out to draft it   he was going to come back  with some huge measure of talent ,  (  Also noted  pesce  ,  slavin  , were both scouted out for jim rutherford   by Ron Francis  !

 

3. Don Waddell : Is still in his infancy  as gm for the canes  but has been mostly positive in his eye for drafting talent and making trades .  Only bad trades Don has  made was   trading skinner  and fox   but one could argue that the return via draft is what brought back more talent  in the end . Waddell also earned himself in his first year a playoff birth and  ecf showing.     His attack  as gm is very aggressive   and when he makes good trades  he  FLEECES  the other teams !  for example  trading   Victor Rask  For  EL NINO !   Waddells  key note players via  draft , is also impressive !  (  Andrei Svechnikov  , Lenni Killinen , Jack Drury , Jesper Sellgren and Luke Henman  / That is also from one draft !!!! INSANE !  , 2nd year . Ryan Suzuki , Pyotr Kochetkov , Patrik Puistola , Anttoni  Honka , Dominck Fensore  , It's  too early to call for  some of the players also drafted from this year  but  all things look  good so far .  and  in free agency  getting Ryan Dzingle was great .   via trade getting Erik Haula  was also great .  Waddell and Francis  were  both instrumental in building the canes depth  in less than 5 years  .  

 

Also  i just wanted to throw this out here , 

 

Rutherford - greatest Trade was  getting Rod Brind'Amour to the canes . 

Francis  - greatest Trade was getting  Teuvo Teravainen   to the canes .

Waddell - greatest Trade was getting Nino Niederreiter  to the canes . 

Edited by Canesfanforever

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Canesfanforever said:

Ron Francis and  Don Waddell  are the teams 2nd and 3rd  gm's  the canes ever had .   Jim Rutherford  obviously was the canes one and only gm for many years .  Here is how i see them .  Starting with Rutherford 

 

1. Rutherford  his Strengths  was really good at making some  trades  and bringing in staff that could see operation  to management  and  running .   He understood how important  certain key players  were  via trade  and because of that he earned himself when he was  with the canes  ,  3 eastern conference finals , 2 stanley cup   appearances , and 1 stanley cup victory .   In his time here he also seek NHL   showcasing  in having thee NHL draft and NHL  All star game  and NHL all star draft  .  His main weaknesses  were drafting players in the draft  . ~   you could say the canes as a whole  failed over the years due to bad drafting  , key note players  he drafted  for  the canes  Eric Staal , Cam Ward ,  Erik Cole ,  Niclas Wallin , Brett Pesce  ,Brock Mcginn , Jacob Slavin , Jeff Skinner  ,  Elias Linholm , 

 

2. Ron Francis  :  His Strengths  were Drafting   key players for the canes  and hiring for scouting  !  Francis  also saw operation  in need for Key  management   training .   Francis time with the canes was short lived with the canes but because of his  eye for talent  he  helped in some trades  that helped the canes  in big  ways via draft but will get remembered for mostly bad trades .   His Weakness was not making  impact trades for the betterment of the canes .  Getting Teravainen  was possibly his greatest trade   but his worse trade  could be said  getting Darling   .  Key note players  he Drafted  for the canes ,  and it's a huge list !  Hayden Fleury , Alex Nedeljkovic  , Warren Foegele , Lucas Wallmark , Clark Bishop  / That was all in one draft from 2014  !!!!! )  Noah Hanifin   SABASTION AHO , / That was his 2nd year as gm !!!! insane !!!! )  Jake Bean , Julien  Gauthier  , Martin Necas , Morgan Geekie ,  As you can see  he had an eye for talent  and when he sought out to draft it   he was going to come back  with some huge measure of talent ,  (  Also noted  pesce  ,  slavin  , were both scouted out for jim rutherford   by Ron Francis  !

 

3. Don Waddell : Is still in his infancy  as gm for the canes  but has been mostly positive in his eye for drafting talent and making trades .  Only bad trades Don has  made was   trading skinner  and fox   but one could argue that the return via draft is what brought back more talent  in the end . Waddell also earned himself in his first year a playoff birth and  ecf showing.     His attack  as gm is very aggressive   and when he makes good trades  he  FLEECES  the other teams !  for example  trading   Victor Rask  For  EL NINO !   Waddells  key note players via  draft , is also impressive !  (  Andrei Svechnikov  , Lenni Killinen , Jack Drury , Jesper Sellgren and Luke Henman  / That is also from one draft !!!! INSANE !  , 2nd year . Ryan Suzuki , Pyotr Kochetkov , Patrik Puistola , Anttoni  Honka , Dominck Fensore  , It's  too early to call for  some of the players also drafted from this year  but  all things look  good so far .  and  in free agency  getting Ryan Dzingle was great .   via trade getting Erik Haula  was also great .  Waddell and Francis  were  both instrumental in building the canes depth  in less than 5 years  .  

 

Also  i just wanted to throw this out here , 

 

Rutherford - greatest Trade was  getting Rod Brind'Amour to the canes . 

Francis  - greatest Trade was getting  Teuvo Teravainen   to the canes .

Waddell - greatest Trade was getting Nino Niederreiter  to the canes . 

Not sure why you think this team started the day they relocated to Carolina, but this team has been around since the '70's and has had many GM's, including the most famous of them all, Emile Francis.  Those were great teams back in the '80s, with the likes of Ronnie Francis, Kevin Dineen, Ray Ferraro, Dave Tippett, Joel Quennville, Sylvain Turgeon, Mike Liut, Ulfie Samuelson, Paul Lawless, etc.

Edited by beboplar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...