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Offseason Talk 2019

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7 hours ago, Canesfanforever said:

I just wanted to point this out to everyone that dont  know   or to those who do know and dont think it's an issue . 

 

Among the Canes roster   here is your list of forwards that shoot  LEFT 

 

Left handed shooters  category :

 

Aho 

Dzingle 

Haula 

Teravianen

Svechnikov 

Foegele

Martinook 

Staal

Wallmark

Gibbons

Mcginn 

Maenalanen

Niederreitier 

 

And your forwards that shoot right ?

 

* Crickets *

 

--------------------------------------------------------------

Speculations on who  could come in to shoot right as a forward ?

 

Williams 

Necas 

Geekie 

Gauthier 

 

It's possible that Necas could make the team  or that Williams  could   get another year   and things would be nice and tidy  for a while 

 

But  it's not possible for Geekie or Gauthier  to make the team  any time soon  because i think they need  some more time to develop . 

 

But what if the canes choose to not bring  in anyone that shoot right ? I just dont see how the power play can work well when no one is there   to do set ups   for a right handed shot .  Using the defense to fill in the gaps   is cute but not practical  cause it gets exposed ! 

 

 

I have mentioned the Canes lack of RH forwards for a couple of years now.  I am not a hockey player, so I will be the first to tell you I don't know that management or the players put that much stock into it.  In sports such as baseball, it is huge.  Lefty hitters against righty pitchers, vice versa, balanced pitching and hitters on teams is the norm.  It feels as if it should be important, and that was one of the costs of trading Lindholm.  

I wouldn't say it's not possible to imagine Geekie or Gauthier in the lineup.  If Geekie has a training camp like Foegele did last year don't be surprised if they keep him.  Gauthier is at the end of his "prospect" era, and it is time to put up or shut up, Zach Boychuk like.  If JW decides to hang 'em up (please don't look for that hook), then I would not be surprised to see either of these two promoted ahead of Necas.  They probably each bring more physical play, and that is what they would be replacing.

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3 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

why don't you analyze about 10 teams that have good PP results for "handedness" and see if there's any correlation?

Will do .  Im Curious myself  as to  among  teams that had a higher pp  %    had players to fill in the gaps .  

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5 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

I just think hype is one thing and stats are another. When you look closely at what the Czech system has contributed to the NHL, in comparison to the contributions of other Euro systems, it's night and day. That system has a vested interest in inflating the achievements of its best players, of which Martin was unquestionably one. But when you ignore the organizational and sportswriter hype and look at the actual numbers, letting him develop at his own pace makes sense, and it makes double the sense in an org which is (now) stacked as deeply as this one. 

 

We've got a roadmap for what happens when you force guys into more than they're ready for (Lindy, Hanifin, and a whole lot of former Checkers and River Rats before them). Now we don't have to do that anymore, and I'm confident that with Necas and anyone else, Roddy won't buy into his own org's PR. 

 

I really can't speak to the effect of the Czech system inflating the achievements of it's best players, because I have no idea about that. My gut feeling is that every league would want to promote its best players and I can't see why the media would buy the Czech system's hype any more than any other system. When it comes to comparing international players by country, they can't really hype a guy's performance at the Worlds Junior Tourney, since they either perform or they don't.  And both Filip Zadina and Martin Necas have rocked vs. other international star players their age. We'll see how these guys do in the NHL, but my money is on both of them.

 

But my enthusiasm about Necas has zero to do with the Czech system promoting him, although that might explain why they're always calling me to talk about their prospects :letssee:. It has to do with direct eyeball assessments of him in person and watching him at World Juniors and on AHL TV. He is an elite talent IMO. We shall see if I'm right or not, but that's my own opinion. He is fast and smooth and fluent and can make plays both at speed and in tight. He has elite vision and creativity that few possess. 

 

Also this is Necas 3rd post draft year. This is not rushing him. He's already had an extra year in his home league AND a full year of AHL including the entire AHL playoffs and Calder Cup win, which is more than two full seasons of development more than our classic rush jobs of Lindholm and Hanifin (and Skinner). 

 

And Necas produced in the AHL. His .81 ppg was essentially tied with Jurco (.82) for second on the team overall, and that was as a rookie. Geekie was the next rookie at .65 ppg. His skill flashed many times in the Calder Cup games I watched. Just using the AHL to NHL translation factor, Necas should score 32 points in a full NHL season. But IMO this is his low end. Because he's a rookie and on the steepest part of his slope, I'd bet he pushes 35-40. Even 32 would have finished him 6th for forwards last year, though Staal was injured, but Ferland is gone. 

 

But it's not just his production. In terms of his development, I think the NHL is the next place for him ideally. Up and down with Charlotte could be ok, but he's already at the top of the list in Charlotte and won a Calder Cup. His plus-minus was #4 on the team, so he's playing a two way game, so doesn't need to work on that. He needs to develop his game in the NHL, IMO. 

 

And, Necas flies. And we now have Haula and Dzingel, who also fly. Despite all of the talk about grit and hitting, Brind'Amour talks just as much about speed. Necas can create with his speed. 

 

IMO, the problem is not that he's not ready. The problem is that if J Williams returns (which I want to happen), it's hard to see where we put him without moving out someone else. It we move out someone else, then who? McGinn and Martinook bring much needed thump and also heart and soul. Foegele isn't going anywhere, in fact, I think he has an offensive breakout of sorts this year. Maybe Wallmark, but Necas has not been playing center, and the 4th line makes zero sense for him anyways, so I guess Martinook could center the 4th line with McGinn and Martinook, but we have such a deep team. Thus my opinion that Necas is a lock if Williams retires, but will have to shock and awe to make it with J Williams there. 

 

But I think Necas could well shock and awe in camp flying and creating. Still, that's what camp is for, and why this dead zone time of year is so painful. I think he's ready, you may not, let's have a camp and see what happens!!

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Call me anal but,

 

it is Dzingel, not Dzingle

 

We may as well get it right before he plays his first game.

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5 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

 You can bet your bottom dollar he is loading that list, which he gets to update every June, with teams that are already defensively stacked.

 

Thanks (yet again) Jim Rutherford.

He may drop one of those D-stacked teams and add Edmonton, just for insurance purposes.  Ask Chris Pronger.  :)

 

EDIT: as I walked away, I realize my logic is reversed.  But you get the drift.  Even if EDM was D-stacked, he'd probably leave it off the trade-to list.  :)

Edited by wxray1

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10 hours ago, Canesfanforever said:

I just wanted to point this out to everyone that dont  know   or to those who do know and dont think it's an issue . 

 

Among the Canes roster   here is your list of forwards that shoot  LEFT 

 

Left handed shooters  category :

 

Aho 

Dzingle 

Haula 

Teravianen

Svechnikov 

Foegele

Martinook 

Staal

Wallmark

Gibbons

Mcginn 

Maenalanen

Niederreitier 

 

And your forwards that shoot right ?

 

* Crickets *

 

--------------------------------------------------------------

Speculations on who  could come in to shoot right as a forward ?

 

Williams 

Necas 

Geekie 

Gauthier 

 

It's possible that Necas could make the team  or that Williams  could   get another year   and things would be nice and tidy  for a while 

 

But  it's not possible for Geekie or Gauthier  to make the team  any time soon  because i think they need  some more time to develop . 

 

But what if the canes choose to not bring  in anyone that shoot right ? I just dont see how the power play can work well when no one is there   to do set ups   for a right handed shot .  Using the defense to fill in the gaps   is cute but not practical  cause it gets exposed ! 

 

 

Handedness is of far less concern in forward lines than for D. In fact, many forwards prefer playing their (supposedly) off-side, because doing so give them more shooting options: You actually pick up eight feet, in terms of where the net is positioned relative to where you receive the puck, if you play the "wrong" side (i.e., a left shot at RW and vice-versa. That said, wingers other guys prefer to play "their handed" side of the ice. This is why you'll sometimes hear Tripp talk about how a guy would have had a better opportunity to shoot or make a pass if he'd been handed oppositely than he is.

 

Handedness matters more on D because an RH or LHD is using their forehand (stronger) side to keep the zone--although some guys are as good or better at doing that on their backhands, because they've mastered turning their backs to oncoming players to protect the puck from their efforts to clear the zone.

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2 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Handedness is of far less concern in forward lines than for D. In fact, many forwards prefer playing their (supposedly) off-side, because doing so give them more shooting options: You actually pick up eight feet, in terms of where the net is positioned relative to where you receive the puck, if you play the "wrong" side (i.e., a left shot at RW and vice-versa. That said, wingers other guys prefer to play "their handed" side of the ice. This is why you'll sometimes hear Tripp talk about how a guy would have had a better opportunity to shoot or make a pass if he'd been handed oppositely than he is.

 

Handedness matters more on D because an RH or LHD is using their forehand (stronger) side to keep the zone--although some guys are as good or better at doing that on their backhands, because they've mastered turning their backs to oncoming players to protect the puck from their efforts to clear the zone.

On the power play there are a total of  4 or 5 power play scenario's    and  The ones that  Carolina likes to implement is a combination of a Diamond  and  Shooting  style for their power play    .   With Carolina   they utilize the defense to come into the play  for  the "  Shooting  Style pp "   when lanes open up for either a tip in deflection or  to get a lucky rebound  with a shot from  the blue line .   With a  Diamond  Style  pp  they  will bring in  Faulk or  Williams to play the left side for that Position    .  When it becomes predictable   on what the Canes are trying to do    it makes it very difficult for that  player to  go through the cycles  to feed to a player that is in the right slot for a good scoring chance .   If the Canes had  on the roster more  Right handed guys who could  play their positions   then all of that work  just to set up on a play  would be less  and easier for defenders to stay back in case they were open for  a shot from the point or to go on defense  right away  if the other team  were to manage to get the puck  . 

 

This is what we all saw last year  and We saw a ton of Justin Williams   on the ice during those power plays .    If the Canes had 3 or 4  Right handed shots for forwards it would be  less of a concern and more on  just getting the timing down  for when passes are lead to the slot position .

 

 

Edited by Canesfanforever

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1 hour ago, Canesfanforever said:

On the power play there are a total of  4 or 5 power play scenario's    and  The ones that  Carolina likes to implement is a combination of a Diamond  and  Shooting  style for their power play    .   With Carolina   they utilize the defense to come into the play  for  the "  Shooting  Style pp "   when lanes open up for either a tip in deflection or  to get a lucky rebound   on the blue line .   With a  Diamond  Style  pp  they  will bring in  Faulk or  Williams to play the left side for that Position    .  When it becomes predictable   on what the Canes are trying to do    it makes it very difficult for that  player to  go through the cycles  to feed to a player that is in the right slot for a good scoring chance .   If the Canes had  on the roster more  Right handed guys who could  play their positions   then all of that work  just to set up on a play  would be less  and easier for defenders to stay back in case they were open for  a shot from the point or to go on defense  right away  if the other team  were to manage to get the puck  . 

 

This is what we all saw last year  and We saw a ton of Justin Williams   on the ice during those power plays .    If the Canes had 3 or 4  Right handed shots for forwards it would be  less of a concern and more on  just getting the timing down  for when passes are lead to the slot position .

 

 

For the PP we have plenty of RH guys, we're just not using them in the right place. Time and again last year Faulk was at the top of the umbrella or on the right above the circle, when if he'd been above the left circle he'd have had more options.

 

Our PP is not a handedness problem, we have plenty of righties for it. It's that we're putting them in the wrong places, and it has lasted as long as Rod has been on the coaching staff. Until he figures that out, our PP will keep not getting better.

 

Edited by top-shelf-1
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29 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

For the PP we have plenty of RH guys, we're just not using them in the right place. Time and again last year Faulk was at the top of the umbrella or on the right above the circle, when if he'd been above the left circle he'd have had more options.

 

Our PP is not a handedness problem, we have plenty of righties for it. It's that we're putting them in the wrong places, and it has lasted as long as Rod has been on the coaching staff. Until he figures that out, our PP will keep not getting better.

 

Dont you see the reason why  though ? We are using the defense for the " Righties  "  as you put it  in  situations not best suited for their production .  It is  like asking a defense man to  win you a face off , Sure they could maybe  win you  one faceoff   out of 15 draws   but  at the end of the day you would rather prefer a forward  that can  win you a faceoff    more often   then just hoping  it works   .  We need Forwards that shoot right  so that the defense can hang back  and do their job .    And  there are times on the  faceoff in certain corners   you rather have someone who is right handed so they can win on their strong side to get the puck out  to one of their  guys .   A defense man's  offensive awareness   will hardly ever be  that of the level of a Forward  based on their  understanding   of the game .      As you pointed out   " putting them in the wrong places "   is because  the way  how things are being operated , the Canes are trying to over compensate  for  positions  that are going to lead to that result anyways .   Im  a firm believer in the  " Kiss " Method  when approaching things  ( Kiss =  Keep it simple stupid )    in Hockey  there are  teams  that try to over complicate things  and because of that    it takes away from doing something simple .  Edmonton for years is a great example of just that  in trying to over complicate things .   Teams that i see  that take things in a more simpler  and practical approach   win more games than they lose  .    With the Canes   on the power play  i just see them trying their best   but it is so predictable  that an ECHL  rookie  could see what the  canes are trying to do on power play and people on these forums wonder why the pp is so bad , even when someone like myself trys to  explain why .  

Edited by Canesfanforever

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On 8/29/2019 at 11:11 AM, bluedevil58 said:

 

Top golf.

Ahhh, that's why I didn't comprehend. I don't care for golf, top or bottom.

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19 hours ago, Canesfanforever said:

Dont you see the reason why  though ?

Of course I do: We never have anyone screening the keeper or collecting the garbage, unless his name is Justin Williams. (And yes, this is top-shelf-1, there's a signing-in issue with my other account at the moment.)

 

19 hours ago, Canesfanforever said:

people on these forums wonder why the pp is so bad , even when someone like myself trys to  explain why . 

Wow. Breathtaking. Okay.

 

Dude... oh, what's the point...

 

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10 minutes ago, top-shelf-2 said:

Dude... oh, what's the point.

You got it ts-2, I attempted to say that back a day or so ago, that all this elaborate analysis is awesome sounding, but in my humble opinion, the fact that players are right or left handed, ON THE POWER PLAY, appears superfluous when experts maintain that most of scoring on man advantage does not come from 1 timers, but TRAFFIC and confusion in the goalie's face. So whether they set up in the "diamond" or "shooting style" or "wishbone T" for that matter, it would appear to my simplistic mind that the critical factor becomes getting it to the net and let your net front presence (of which we seem to avoid for the most part) take over from there?

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3 hours ago, top-shelf-2 said:

Of course I do: We never have anyone screening the keeper or collecting the garbage, unless his name is Justin Williams. (And yes, this is top-shelf-1, there's a signing-in issue with my other account at the moment.)

 

Wow. Breathtaking. Okay.

 

Dude... oh, what's the point...

 

 

A couple months ago I had sign on problems and stumbled onto the following solution that worked:

  • Had to use my full email address instead of my user name
  • Had to use the 6 digit password I had before they made us change to an 8 digit password.

That's the only way I've been able to sign on ever since.  Don't know if you might be having the same problem, but the above might be worth a try.

 

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7 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

 

A couple months ago I had sign on problems and stumbled onto the following solution that worked:

  • Had to use my full email address instead of my user name
  • Had to use the 6 digit password I had before they made us change to an 8 digit password.

That's the only way I've been able to sign on ever since.  Don't know if you might be having the same problem, but the above might be worth a try.

 

Thanks Lake. I gave it a shot but no dice. I'm working with OBX though and we'll get it sorted. Again, thank you for the idea.

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9 hours ago, top-shelf-2 said:

Thanks Lake. I gave it a shot but no dice. I'm working with OBX though and we'll get it sorted. Again, thank you for the idea.

We cannot lose The Dude for the start of the season.  That would kill our mojo big time!

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2 hours ago, wxray1 said:

We cannot lose The Dude for the start of the season.  That would kill our mojo big time!

Naw. Mojo is bigger than any one Dude.

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I like top-shelf-2 better, I couldn’t stand top-shelf-1.

 

😜

 

Btw top, I heard Chris Terry has a new job, he’s “Gritty”, the Flyers mascot.

 

👹

 

🤣

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I just got back from a week in Winnipeg attending a duck conference.

 

Still no Canes anything in the airport in Raleigh.  Sad.

 

My  Bunch of Jerks hat was a topic of conversation in Toronto though.......we are famous, and I'm not kidding.

 

It's almost hockey time.

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11 hours ago, Kyrule said:

I like top-shelf-2 better, I couldn’t stand top-shelf-1.

Yeah, what a maroon!

 

As for Terry, and speaking of the Flyers, how sad is that this organization once allowed my grit radar to slip so far that it actually seemed (to me, a guy present at the creation of the Broad Street Bullies) like he brought grit?

 

Now if we can just find a forward who doesn't separate a shoulder every time he hits somebody...

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