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5 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Probably. My guess is we move that first AND Marleau to SJ for pretty much whatever roster player we name, and retain some of Marleau's salary as a sweetener.

Doubt it since SJ can’t afford that

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Any clue what Faulk is asking for?

 

 One concern I have is that we never really flip all of our defensive talent into at least one top level forward. I would hate that to be because were so cheap.

 

 I like Pesce considerably more than I like Faulk.  But Faulk with one year left is not going to bring too much in return most likely. 

 

 So in order to get out of the salary for Faulk, we flip him for not much and miss out on being able to trade Pesce for elite talent.

 

 I don’t know for sure that is what’s going to happen, but if it does I do think at some point getting diminishing returns over and over has to take its toll. 

 

 I guess I’ll have to wait and see what we get for Faulk, But until we actually pay someone the concern is legit.

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On 6/19/2019 at 10:04 AM, super_dave_1 said:

Darling will now be referred to as AHWSNBN

 

Also He Who Shall Not Be Named

 

 

I see what you did there.

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2 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

Doubt it since SJ can’t afford that

If they move out one of the guys we want, they can. They're basically in rebuild mode, so a first would have real value, and getting Marleau back would help them keep butts in the seats while they're doing it. Just spitballin', but like someone said, he supposedly doesn't want to play anywhere else. Gotta think he's a lever in a deal with them. 

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Civ clarified her tweet, I'd post the whole tweet but the thumbnail that comes with it is ginormous. 

 

The Caps and Canes aren't in talks about Faulk, they're in talks about Priskie that indicate Faulk is likely on the move. Clarifying that and the rest of today's drama:

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, remkin said:

But until we actually pay someone the concern is legit.

We've actually paid DeHaan, Pesce, and Slavin. And on the forward side, TT. And at the moment we have no goaltender. You're right: Faulk has little value. But moving your shutdown D when your goaltending is a moving target gives you two things to worry about--scoring more than the other guys and goaltending--instead of goaltending alone.

 

I believe in buying elite scorers from teams with cap issues (or wanting to move one for other reasons) via trade--of 4-5-6 D, bottom-six O, prospects and picks. This lines up with what cap-strapped teams can afford, and the position they are often in: staring down a rebuild. It's how we got Nino.

 

If the cost of an elite scorer is a shutdown D, that's a wash; you're going to give up more goals at the same time you score more, and just have to hope the latter outpaces the former. I prefer having confidence that we'll keep the puck out of our own net and scoring on the power play (!) to hoping we're the better gunslingers at even strength every night out.

 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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1 hour ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Probably. My guess is we move that first AND Marleau to SJ for pretty much whatever roster player we name, and retain some of Marleau's salary as a sweetener.

 

Top, if Marleau was truly committed to only going to SJ as reported, I can't see him waiving his NTC on the hope that the Canes and Sharks reach an acceptable trade agreement.  Even if it were a good faith promise to try to get something done, I'd want something firmer (like the Canes agreeing to buy me out).  I'd love to package Marleau and the pick for something good from SJ that helps us this year.  But if he wasn't promised a buy out in order to waive his NTC he's a much more trusting person than I am. 

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3 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

 

Rather a prescient article, isn't it? I could see a scenario with Marleau that's exactly as presented.

 

I would have to think, however, that the Hurricanes would balk at being left holding the bag for the $3million bonus. I still don't know how they'd work that all out.

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2 minutes ago, JonKerfoot said:

 

Rather a prescient article, isn't it? I could see a scenario with Marleau that's exactly as presented.

 

I would have to think, however, that the Hurricanes would balk at being left holding the bag for the $3million bonus. I still don't know how they'd work that all out.

Very much so. More to come.

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1 hour ago, top-shelf-1 said:

We've actually paid DeHaan, Pesce, and Slavin. And on the forward side, TT. And at the moment we have no goaltender. You're right: Faulk has little value. But moving your shutdown D when your goaltending is a moving target gives you two things to worry about--scoring more than the other guys and goaltending--instead of goaltending alone.

 

I believe in buying elite scorers from teams with cap issues (or wanting to move one for other reasons) via trade--of 4-5-6 D, bottom-six O, prospects and picks. This lines up with what cap-strapped teams can afford, and the position they are often in: staring down a rebuild. It's how we got Nino.

 

If the cost of an elite scorer is a shutdown D, that's a wash; you're going to give up more goals at the same time you score more, and just have to hope the latter outpaces the former. I prefer having confidence that we'll keep the puck out of our own net and scoring on the power play (!) to hoping we're the better gunslingers at even strength every night out.

 

We got DeHaan, Pesce, TT and Slavin on really good deals and good on us. But we didn't pay Lindholm, Hanifin, Skinner, Aho (yet) and didn't want to pay Skinner. Now I am glad we're not paying Skinner, that's for sure, but the idea that we won't pay anyone more than basically $6 million is still in tact. The league has 78 players making more than $6million. We have none. We are going to have to break that seal for Aho, but until we do, we haven't. 

 

I am glad we are fiscally responsible, but taking on other team's cap hits to get to the floor is not generally going to be enough. 

 

I don't know what Faulk is asking for, but unless it's crazy money or a full NTC, he would be worth a lot more return if we locked him up. Or, if the big return could only come from Pesce, at least with the way Faulk played last year, we could think about it if Faulk were locked up. 

 

If we trade Faulk for a fairly modest return, we are sliding down a slope where all of that D we were going to flip for O is slipping away. IMO we don't need modest return, we need something good. 

 

I have made no secret that I am very high on Necas potential, and we all know Svech is going to be the real deal. But next year? Seems like one more top 6 forward puts us where we need to be (along with a goalie). 

 

My post was more of a concern than a complaint. I am still waiting to see how it all pans out. The Committee handled the draft very well, so points there. I'm just trying to learn more about this Priskie situation. Maybe they figure this out masterfully, then sign Aho, and find a goalie. I'm still very open to it. But it would be easier to picture with us extending Faulk IMO. 

 

All of that said, my post started with "what is he asking for"? If he think's he's really an All Star and wants $7million/year and full NTC, then I agree we're stuck.

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OK, I'm taking a shot here, others please fix any mistakes. Chase Priskie is an offensive D man who just finished his college career with Quinnipiac. He was drafted in the 6th round by Washington, but, like a guy named Fox, announced he would not sign with the team that drafted him and would become a UFA. He had a very good senior year, being nominated in the 10 for the Hobey Baker award. He scored more goals (17) than any other D man in NCAA. (This is 17 goals in 36 games, he had the most goals on the entire team, including forwards). He had more PP goals (10) than Adam Fox had goals. He is a sought after UFA if he makes it that far. But there is still a bit over a month where Washington retains his rights. 

 

Thus, in theory, they could make a deal along the lines that New York made with us for Fox. There are some differences in the scenarios though. First, Priskie was well off of Fox's total points (48 vs 39). Second, Priskie did his breakout as a senior vs Fox as a Junior. Third, Priskie is just weeks away from full UFA rather than over a year away. Fourth, despite the elite goal totals, I'm not sure if Priskie is a full on PP QB or not. (I just haven't been able to find out). 

 

The main thing is this. Why would Priskie agree to sign with us, when he can just wait a few weeks and become unrestricted? We'd have to offer him something pretty special. All Washington can do is trade us his rights until August. But is Priskie really NHL ready now? He is quoted as saying he would not sign in Washington because they have so many D prospects. Uh, don't we too?

 

This is a very interesting prospect, but I guess I don't see how this is more than discussions unless Priskie has indicated a willingness to play here. From our end, if we trade Faulk, we could go Hamilton, Pesce, TVR on the right, Slavin, DeHaan, Fleury on the left and put Priskie in Charlotte, but would he sing up for that? I can't see us putting Priskie right in for Faulk, and at least at first that would be a big drop off. 

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46 minutes ago, remkin said:

All of that said, my post started with "what is he asking for"? If he think's he's really an All Star and wants $7million/year and full NTC, then I agree we're stuck.

 

I bet he's asking for market value, and it's not what he's making now.  Regardless, there is more than one way to skin a cat than having the entire process of acquiring another legit top-6 scorer hinge on a Faulk trade.  Sure, he could be an important part of it, but we have assets and maybe it just takes a couple of trades to get it done.  Stuck isn't what comes to mind for me.

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Is Priskie a defenseman? Why in the world do we need to be looking into a defenseman from the Caps when we’re going to be losing solid ones from the Checkers because there’s no realistic chance for them to get to the NHL in Carolina? Or have I missed something and he’s an offensive prospect that we are looking at. Even then, we are loaded with offensive prospects in Charlotte ready to fight for the one or two spots that might open up on the Hurricanes roster.

 

As far as Faulk goes, unless we could work a sign and trade, I don’t see how we can extend him and then trade him. That means any RHD for O trade would have to be for Pesce or Hamilton if Faulk is extended. I hope we don’t part with either of those guys - Faulk is unfortunately the guy who needs to be moved. I hope we don’t have to give him away like we did Skinner. We have a lot of prospects to sweeten a deal with, plus an extra first next year (no way does Toronto finish in the bottom 10). Hopefully, Faulk plus a prospect, draft pick or both can get us the offensive player we need.

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9 hours ago, LakeLivin said:
12 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

On Aho, I suspect he will end up around just under 8-mil AAV.

 

I was thinking just over $8m up to $8.5m for a longer term deal (Draisaitl = $8.5 x 8). 

 

Yeah, I think your probably closer to what gets done. I still say pay the man.

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As far as not having a 6 million cap man, that ended today. We already had a 6 million dollar salary man in Faulk. On top of that we have another in Dougie.

 

we were probably trying to get Priskie’s rights because our RHD depth is crap.  If i was a betting man it would have been something small like a 6th round pick. We weren’t doing 2 2nd rounders to get a 2 month head start on a soon to be UFA with 0 NHL time.  Heck a 60 point NHLer just fetched a 5th rounder to get a jump on negotiating.  No way the Craps could get more for Priskie.m

 

aho will happen. Since they are a part on years of length, it usually takes longer to negotiate years than a difference in salary.  You need to have conversations about different year lengths and salaries at each. Of course he isn’t the only focus. Potentially taking time to talk to UFAs starting tomorrow.

Edited by gocanes0506

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6 hours ago, coastal_caniac said:

 

Yeah, I think your probably closer to what gets done. I still say pay the man.

I love Aho. I have his sweater. I think he's going to be very good. But if you guys are only looking at stats in the year prior to their contract and not player type, you're comparing apples and oranges. 

 

Draisaitl is 6-1, 214. Aho is (allegedly only) an inch shorter, and 40 pounds lighter (which, of the two, is the one that matters). Drai is a power forward. Aho is a skilled playmaker who can score if he's healthy, and has somebody else throwing around the weight he ain't got. 

 

This is why I've been comparing him to Johnny Hockey, and speculating that he's the yardstick the Canes are using with SeaBass. They are much closer in overall size, style of play, and production at the same points in their careers.

 

If we plan to pay Draisaitl money to anyone anytime soon, my cash is on Svech. Everybody complains that Skinner was soft. Aho makes Skinner look like a freakin' power forward.

 

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11 hours ago, remkin said:

Chase Priskie is an offensive D man who just finished his college career with Quinnipiac. He was drafted in the 6th round by Washington, but, like a guy named Fox, announced he would not sign with the team that drafted him and would become a UFA. He had a very good senior year, being nominated in the 10 for the Hobey Baker award. He scored more goa

I'm just curious about this. We seem to have such a good track record with these types, Fox, Johnson,etc. And we've got enough Dmen to field 3 teams. What makes us think that we'd be any more successful than we were with Fox selling this guy on coming here? And rem, you were the main champion of Adam Fox, which I enjoined as I too would have loved to have gotten him into our system. Now why do we want to get our hopes up on another Hobey Baker finalist? A consolation prize (just kidding)? Do we have some type of schtick I don't know about?

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12 hours ago, bluedevil58 said:

 

Just me or do you think Peace is better than Dougie all aspects considered?

I guess it depends on what you personally want from your DMAN. Is it a shutdown D man who is also adequate with assists and limited goal scoring ? Is it a guy who plays adequate D with the ability to dish assists and score goals. I'm still shaking my head on why DH wasn't used as our no.1 PP guy.  From an organizational standpoint I think we loose more if we trade Pesce. Pesce is the shutdown guy, he's 2 years younger, carries a better contract, has the ability to score more and he would leave a big hole defensively. Trading DH potentially brings more value to us. An elite scorer would offset DH's scoring. His contract would also help reduce the pain of the contract of an elite scorer. I'd like to keep both but teams are looking for defense and Faulk's value is not going to get it done for what we need. The talking heads show a lot of interest in Pesce over Hamilton and I see why. Pesce is the shutdown guy and for teams that already have a strong offense they dont need scoring from Pesce. His contract is already a gold mine for suitors who dont have to worry about extensions and get an elite DMan for cheap. Personally I value Pesce over Hamilton with all things considered.

 

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Now that draft has come and gone, and the Canes are being celebrated for 12 draft picks, the real show is about to unfold. Cap issues will result in a lot of maneuvering in the days to come. Hopefully Waddell and committee are getting a 2nd wind and ready to get into the fray? Settle the goalie question, resign Aho, make the Faulk move possibly with Vegas and get us a 2C. That's the marching orders, correct? Oh, and see what our newest tenet, Patrick Marleau, is up to?

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4 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

I love Aho. I have his sweater. I think he's going to be very good. But if you guys are only looking at stats in the year prior to their contract and not player type, you're comparing apples and oranges. 

 

One could also argue you are comparing apples and oranges since Johnny hockey signed for five-years.  It's been reported publicly on at least 4 occasions by Waddell that both sides are negotiating a max-term deal.  Buying years of free agency cost $.

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I realize draft picks after after the first 10-15 are lottery tickets, but I don’t understand trading the 37th pick. There were several players that were highly regarded by many still available. We already have a minor league system full of prospects. I would think we needed quality over quantity. If the 83rd pick pans out in 3-4 years, I guess I’ll stand corrected.

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3 minutes ago, bluedevilcane said:

I realize draft picks after after the first 10-15 are lottery tickets, but I don’t understand trading the 37th pick. There were several players that were highly regarded by many still available. We already have a minor league system full of prospects. I would think we needed quality over quantity. If the 83rd pick pans out in 3-4 years, I guess I’ll stand corrected.

We got the 44th as well.  They assumed they could still get the player THEY wanted at 44th.  I’ll be watching for an update in a few years.

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