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Canes will match offer Sheet on Aho 5yrs 8.45mil AAV

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7 minutes ago, beboplar said:

They have already matched the offer sheet.

 

They should have waited 7 days.

 

The NHL.com article I just read stated the the Canes “will” match the offer, not that they already have. I’m betting DW will wait to the very last minute and email Bergivin...

 

 

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5 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

For one thing, they never know when they'll be traded or locked out (the current CBA expires after 20-21) since owners/GMs are fickle things. So players want to make as much money as possible as soon as possible, and a front-loaded deal like this one certainly achieves that (although the tax hit is ridiculous). Plus, shorter deals give players added bites at the FA apple within their careers; if their current team is on a downward trend when their deal comes due, they can potentially move to one with a better shot at a championship while still able to make a significant contribution--and be paid handsomely (again) for doing so.

 

 

In addition to the above the signing bonus is due in early July.  If there is a lock out after the 20-21 CBA, then Aho gets the entire signing bonus for that year.  For him the only risk would be his salary which is $750K.

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3 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

Following my epic, rem-like novel above and now that I've slept (hopefully not mixing up words), I wanted to return to a thought I'd floated there. Before that, I want to thank top for his monetary analysis and for your thoughts top.

 

Returning to Aho, again maybe overthinking this, but to me the possibly unintended (I say that tongue in cheek), but truly masterful part of this attack on Canes hockey, and I do believe it was so, was the potential by stating that Aho said "he really wanted to play in Montreal", to drive a wedge in that room and fragment the team. I do acknowledge that several believe that idea is overblown, but I just ask, if you were Aho's teammate and you read that in the media, how would you feel about his loyalty? I mean, my question would be, Dude, do you really want to play here and with us? So, I ask, Did Bergevin create a caustic atmosphere in that room, effectively neutralizing one of our primary weapons? That's why I think it critical to try to understand Aho's part in this. Of course he'll deny those words/thoughts, but the damage, though we can blow it off as GM speak, might have been done?

 

I'm with you in believing that Bergevin is spinning the question of Aho's loyalty and commitment to the team to the Habs best advantage.  He said something along the lines of "He agreed to this" and then went on to imply that that meant Aho preferred Montreal over Carolina, never acknowledging the possibility that Aho (and his agent) might be using the offer sheet as a hard core negotiating tactic with the Canes.

 

While we're all just speculating, mine is that once we match, Aho will give 100% to the Canes.  His teammates actually know the kid.   I'd bet that the rest of the Canes understand that this is a business and recognize that the offer sheet was used as a negotiating tactic. I don't see any long lasting negative effects arising from this incident and predict that within the next 3 years Aho is wearing a letter on his Canes jersey.

 

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38 minutes ago, RickD_99 said:

 

Say the Canes match the offer sheet...so the 10.5 signing bonus and 0.75 “salary” kicks in year one. Does the entire 11.25 total count against the cap this year or is it some percentage of that total?

Entire signing bonus and salary count against the cap.  The next 2 years the Canes will feel this.  The last 3 will actually open some space.

 

At least that is my understanding.

Edited by reelpirate5

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1 hour ago, remkin said:

Myth 1: The Canes are to blame for being cheap and negotiating too rough with Aho. 

 

NO big RFA are signed yet. Why does every other team (Tampa, Winnipeg, and the big daddy who actually made their last big RFA sit for half a season and go right to the wire, get a pass on negotiating?). We were engaging in the important cost-containment that only comes through negotiating. The system is set up against RFA's (except the offer sheet). For years teams have negotiated firmly with almost all RFA's. The idea was as others have posted, that "you haven't fully proven yourself yet. You get the big bucks in UFA, for now, we set some limits now". This has been changing some, especially with mega stars, but until now the one thing that could open thing up: an offer sheet, had not happened in years. 

 

We were doing the right thing. Just like we did with Mrazek and Ferland. Just like we did with Slavin and Pesce and TT. And Aho would have been very well paid, and we'd have had him for 8 years (guessing), even if it cost more than anyone thought. 

 

We were just conducting usual business, just like every other team with a high profile RFA, until Bergevan cannon balled into the pool. 

 

Just to put some names to the point, here are some of the currently unsigned RFAs:

Marner, Rantanen, Laine, Point, Werenski, Connor, McAvoy, and more.

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10 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

I'm with you in believing that Bergevin is spinning the question of Aho's loyalty and commitment to the team to the Habs best advantage. 

Not just Bergevin...from TSN:

“I think that Sebastian 100 per cent wants to play in Montreal,” Johannson said. “He wouldn’t have signed an offer sheet if he didn’t want to play in Montreal.”

 

Yah...

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5 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

Not just Bergevin...from TSN:

“I think that Sebastian 100 per cent wants to play in Montreal,” Johannson said. “He wouldn’t have signed an offer sheet if he didn’t want to play in Montreal.”

 

Yah...

 

To your point, remember if you're a basketball fan how Gordon Hayward (pretty good player for the Jazz) signed an offer sheet with the Hornets. The Jazz matched it in a day or two. Offer sheets show that a guy wants to get paid no matter where he is -- which is the point of RFA in the first place.

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3 hours ago, Kjell Dahlin said:

Pardon my english. As a french mtl citizen and habs fan I have to say we are shocked at the turn of event. But I think you guys have to know that ots getting impossible here to get good players. They dont want to live the stress of being looked under the microscope and off corse taxes.

 

Don't know how much Bergevin expected this to work or how much he did it to impress on Habs fans/ owners that he's trying really hard.  But my take is that the Canes match without a second thought.  And that if there is any way for the Canes to screw with the Habs they will go out of their way to do it.  Doesn't have to be just a retaliatory offer sheet, could be trades, waiver pickups, etc.  I think the bottom line will be that the Habs just made an enemy for no return.

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13 minutes ago, reelpirate5 said:

Entire signing bonus and salary count against the cap.  The next 2 years the Canes will feel this.  The last 3 will actually open some space.

 

At least that is my understanding.

Maybe I was wrong.....I found this on NHL CBA Capfriendly.....

"The Salary Cap Hit is the total amount of salary cap room that is taken by a players contract. This number is calculated by the average dollar figure of the contract."

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"This was an easy decision," said Waddell. "Sebastian is one of the best players in the league and the centerpiece of what we're building here. We've spoken to him throughout this process and he's made it clear that he wants to be in Raleigh and be a part of this organization.

 

"It's our job to manage our cap space as our players develop and hit free agency. There was no concern at any point that we would not be able to match this contract. Once again, the Carolina Hurricanes should not be underestimated. We have a plan and all the resources to win a Stanley Cup."

 

From Canes Website, emphasis is mine.

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50 minutes ago, RickD_99 said:

 

Say the Canes match the offer sheet...so the 10.5 signing bonus and 0.75 “salary” kicks in year one. Does the entire 11.25 total count against the cap this year or is it some percentage of that total?

 

16 minutes ago, reelpirate5 said:

Entire signing bonus and salary count against the cap.  The next 2 years the Canes will feel this.  The last 3 will actually open some space.

 

At least that is my understanding.

 

Cap hit is $8.54m for each of the next 5 years.  Total compensation averaged over the term of the contract.

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 We've spoken to him throughout this process and he's made it clear that he wants to be in Raleigh and be a part of this organization.

 

Huh. Thought Bergevin said he wanted to be a Hab. I guess not.

 

I don't want to say who the imbecile seems to be, but it seems pretty clear. 

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Well if we're moving it over here, I think this is worth reposting:

 

"This was an easy decision," said Waddell. "Sebastian is one of the best players in the league and the centerpiece of what we're building here. We've spoken to him throughout this process and he's made it clear that he wants to be in Raleigh and be a part of this organization.

 

"It's our job to manage our cap space as our players develop and hit free agency. There was no concern at any point that we would not be able to match this contract. Once again, the Carolina Hurricanes should not be underestimated. We have a plan and all the resources to win a Stanley Cup."

 

From Canes Website, emphasis is mine.

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9 minutes ago, reelpirate5 said:

Maybe I was wrong.....I found this on NHL CBA Capfriendly.....

"The Salary Cap Hit is the total amount of salary cap room that is taken by a players contract. This number is calculated by the average dollar figure of the contract."

 

Thank you...I like this interpretation much better because I still want to sign a goal scoring forward this year! 😀

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I don't think Aho will get any resentment from his teammates. Seabass would probably confide the details to some of his closest teammates and maybe they would understand. As long as Seabass's commitment is 100% on ice, off ice, in practice, and while serving as one of the faces of this organziation, it's all good. At the end of the day, if they are professionals and take their job seriously then no one can say anything. You can be a greedy, egotistical *edit* in private. I don't care. 

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Bergevin is an idiot! I don't know MTL cap situation, but if they really wanted Aho, they needed to grossly overpay him at a level that we wouldn't match....say 11M or so. They did us a favor since Aho was originally seeking 9.5M x 5 years. Bergevin isn't popular in MTL, and maybe he wanted to create the appearance that he is aggressively trying to improve his team. Quite a miscalculation as to what our ownership is willing to do; and maybe the overriding Canadian perception of us not knowing what we are doing! Some of the criticism needs to be directed at Aho's agent, since he also miscalculated. There WAS a number that we would have walked away from, but certainly not what was in this offer sheet.

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22 hours ago, cclifford10 said:

It's only July 1st.  If Aho wanted to be here, he would have continued to negotiate a little longer.  He's no longer my favorite player.  Match it because he's worth more and then trade him.

 

This has shown him to be exactly the player I thought he was. I agree with sign him, then trade him to the NHL equivalent of Siberia as quickly as we are able to do so within the terms of his contract.

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45 minutes ago, remkin said:

Well if we're moving it over here, I think this is worth reposting:

 

"This was an easy decision," said Waddell. "Sebastian is one of the best players in the league and the centerpiece of what we're building here. We've spoken to him throughout this process and he's made it clear that he wants to be in Raleigh and be a part of this organization.

 

"It's our job to manage our cap space as our players develop and hit free agency. There was no concern at any point that we would not be able to match this contract. Once again, the Carolina Hurricanes should not be underestimated. We have a plan and all the resources to win a Stanley Cup."

 

From Canes Website, emphasis is mine.

If he really wanted to be here, he would’ve continued over signing the offer sheet. Actions speak louder than words.

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1 hour ago, LakeLivin said:

 

I'm with you in believing that Bergevin is spinning the question of Aho's loyalty and commitment to the team to the Habs best advantage.  He said something along the lines of "He agreed to this" and then went on to imply that that meant Aho preferred Montreal over Carolina, never acknowledging the possibility that Aho (and his agent) might be using the offer sheet as a hard core negotiating tactic with the Canes.

 

While we're all just speculating, mine is that once we match, Aho will give 100% to the Canes.  His teammates actually know the kid.   I'd bet that the rest of the Canes understand that this is a business and recognize that the offer sheet was used as a negotiating tactic. I don't see any long lasting negative effects arising from this incident and predict that within the next 3 years Aho is wearing a letter on his Canes jersey.

 

We’Ve now let every other impending RFA know they can use the same tactic when their time comes.

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Unless I missed it, one point that hasn't been made yet is that maximizing the amount of the contract that's paid at the start of each season as bonus money actually increases the amount the player nets because he's earning interest on it for the entire year.  I'd guess that getting $38m in signing bonuses instead of as salary adds maybe another $500k to the amount Aho nets each year,  That makes his $8.45m AAV "max bonus" contract net something similar to what a $9m AAV "regular salary" contract would net.  

 

So, while I have no doubt that Bergevin used the max signing bonus to "weaponize" the offer sheet (thinking Dundon might not be willing to come up with the cash), it also let the Habs increase the amount that Aho was getting without going to the next compensation tier of the offer sheet process.   

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