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gocanes0506

Canes will match offer Sheet on Aho 5yrs 8.45mil AAV

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I am, unfortunately, not in the position of actually being a player in an NHL locker room, but what I've picked up over the years, is that players long ago realized that this was a business and that every guy was going to try to get his money. I'm sure it may irk a guy or two, but in terms of being a real "cancer" I think it would only be a problem when the play was far outpaced by the contract. The guy who gets the huge bucks but serially does not deliver. 

 

Really Aho got a fair contract. For what he produces and will produce, this is more than fair. So it really should not be a problem. It was a mega front-load, but just think, after this year Dundon has half of it paid already. (I did mention the interest thing, but it was buried in a lot of bandwidth usage). 

 

The other thing is that OK, Aho did sign the offer sheet. But really what guy can honestly say he'd just turn down a one payment of $21 million. They may be a touch jealous, but really how can they blame him? And I think it actually helps in the "golden boy" conversation that the team did not just offer him this. They were plugging away at negotiating, not just giving him anything, when they suddenly had their decision made for them. So if there's a lesson for future RFA's it's that we will negotiate firmly. If they happen to get a weak offer sheet, we might match, but until Bergevin, that was not a very good bet.

 

Here's a take. Dundon has now shown that he will pay to have superstars. Before this, we just didn't seem to be willing to break $6 million/year. Now we will hit $21 million in one year. But really, it is $8.45 million. Yes, we CAN have nice things!

 

Again, that is a fair deal. Aho is currently IMO a top 20 player. He currently has the #25 contract. BUT that is to start, and before the rest of this RFA class get signed (Mitch Marner anyone)?. Then, every year more guys will fill in above him. He probably starts the years closer to #30 and each year another 7-8 guys will go higher, and with the cap bump in two years? By the start of 2 years from now, I bet his contract is already the #45 richest, but he's in the top 15 players. 

 

Anyways, I digressed. I think he will be back in the good graces of his teammates within a couple of days of razzing at camp, and as he keeps lighting the lamp. I might consider buying his jersey, but only if we pay by the letter.

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4 hours ago, Bing_Chow said:

This validates my practice of never putting names on my jerseys. They either get traded or they let you down eventually. When I made a trip to the PNC during '17-'18, I had to choice to pony up extra for the "Aho" or not. Glad I didn't. 

I think Aho should make a grand gesture. Pay for the first 100 fans who put his name on their jersey. He won't even notice it, and it his name will be everywhere.

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5 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

Unless I missed it, one point that hasn't been made yet is that maximizing the amount of the contract that's paid at the start of each season as bonus money actually increases the amount the player nets because he's earning interest on it for the entire year.  I'd guess that getting $38m in signing bonuses instead of as salary adds maybe another $500k to the amount Aho nets each year,  That makes his $8.45m AAV "max bonus" contract net something similar to what a $9m AAV "regular salary" contract would net.  

 

So, while I have no doubt that Bergevin used the max signing bonus to "weaponize" the offer sheet (thinking Dundon might not be willing to come up with the cash), it also let the Habs increase the amount that Aho was getting without going to the next compensation tier of the offer sheet process.   

But what does front loading the contract do to his tax hit? Since I am not an accountant, I have no idea if 5 equal years at $8.454 million costs less in taxes than having one year at $12 million and a second at $10 million. But it could offset the ability to invest more up front. Either way he’s rich as *edit*.

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Dundon’s comments are priceless and struck the perfect tone for all of this. 1. No hard feelings Seabass. 2. Yes I’ve got fat stacks, Canada, you aren’t dealing with PK anymore. 3. Now let’s win.

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8 minutes ago, bluedevilcane said:

But what does front loading the contract do to his tax hit? Since I am not an accountant, I have no idea if 5 equal years at $8.454 million costs less in taxes than having one year at $12 million and a second at $10 million. But it could offset the ability to invest more up front. Either way he’s rich as *edit*.

My point wasn't as much about front loading the contract as maximizing the signing bonus . .  bonuses? . .  bonusi?  E.g., for the first year Aho is immediately parking $11m in the bank and compounding interest for a full year as compared to taking in that $11m spaced over the course of a year.  Maybe that does have some tax implications but I'd bet they're relatively inconsequential. 

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6 minutes ago, bluedevilcane said:

Dundon’s comments are priceless and struck the perfect tone for all of this. 1. No hard feelings Seabass. 2. Yes I’ve got fat stacks, Canada, you aren’t dealing with PK anymore. 3. Now let’s win.

 

Absolutely the best interview he's done thus far.  Waddell wasn't bad either.  I thought mission accomplished as well, while adding 4) weren't too proud to save some face in some of their comments on Aho.

 

Maybe these guys have a plan and know what they are doing.

 

 

Edited by coastal_caniac
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When you think about the gazillion dollars that has been spent on NBA players in the past few days, I am sure they would look at this and go "What is the fuss?"  These days if you aren't willing to commit $42M over 5 years to your supposed best player, then you should not be a professional sports franchise owner.  Period.

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On 7/2/2019 at 1:10 AM, Kyrule said:

The Hurricanes ticket revenue last year was 22 million.

 

We have to pay Aho 21 million within 12 months.

 

So basically our entire ticket revenue from last season will be going to Seabass over the next year.

 

Thanks Aho!  😉👍🏻

Or, we got the owner with deep pockets and the will to go into them at the exact time agent tactics required it.

 

I shudder to even consider how this would have played out under JR/PK.

 

I have no ill will toward Aho or any player who tries to get all they can. That's their job/dream. Waddell neatly summer up the org's job: 

Quote

"It's our job to manage our cap space as our players develop and hit free agency. There was no concern at any point that we would not be able to match this contract. Once again, the Carolina Hurricanes should not be underestimated. We have a plan and all the resources to win a Stanley Cup."

 

We might differ on this, Ky, but I think the org knew exactly what it was doing. When that idiot Dreger suggested somebody offer him eight years at 10.8, I said no team in hockey would be dumb enough. It would have basically weaponized the offer sheet process and divided the league's GMs so completely that good-faith negotiations on anything would be out the window for a very long time.

 

So, while many fans were wringing their hands that Aho had not yet been signed, the org knew that, with Aho an RFA, it held all the cards and just had to wait him out. I have no ill will toward the Habs at all; they actually helped us out. None toward Aho either. This is the future; teams have not had loyalty to players for a very long time, and players are essentially adapting their negotiation tactics to fit that reality. I think Bergevin will get an earful from other GMs at their next confab, but we should send him candy and flowers. Thanks to him, we got a shorter commitment but one long enough to figure out if this kid's our future, and if not, to give us an escape hatch. Meanwhile, we got to say we wanted him for eight, removing any possibility that his agent could claim we weren't serious/weren't willing to max him. But he wanted the shorter deal to keep his options open, and I'd bet Waddell did too. So Aho went out and found somebody (dumb enough to) offer him what he wanted. From the org's perspective, the Habs did all the work and we got the benefit. And everybody's happy. Works for me.

 

Edited by top-shelf-1
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What does bother me slightly is all this talk about how relieved TD and DW are about the Aho contract being done. 

 

Why not make a stronger offer to start with?  Start at 8x8 right after the Boston series?  The management team were negotiating but they were dug in for the long term negotiations.

 

im not saying TD is cheap here because TD was going to pay the contract that they agreed upon.  I can’t call TD cheap, I haven’t ever spent 500,000 on anything.  I feel like the narrative isn’t quite fitting the action with the relief and lower contract offer.

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I personally would like to hear Aho give some "insight" on Bergevin's comments. I know it will never happen though, unless a reporter gets the onions to ask 

that tough question. Even if it does, I'm sure he would have a very PC response, which would dance around the real truth. Would be nice though...just sayin'.

I agree with most in saying that Bergevin twisted Aho's actions into verbal confusion to stir the pot, equating the notion that signing an offer sheet from a particular team automatically means you WANT to play for said team.

 

Edited by sleekfeeder

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13 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

My point wasn't as much about front loading the contract as maximizing the signing bonus . .  bonuses? . .  bonusi?  E.g., for the first year Aho is immediately parking $11m in the bank and compounding interest for a full year as compared to taking in that $11m spaced over the course of a year.  Maybe that does have some tax implications but I'd bet they're relatively inconsequential. 

Right.  The actual tax difference on $8M versus $21M in one year are minimal.  All the bracketing and other surcharges have taken effect and are essentially the same.  (Maybe not in the future judging from certain political talk, but for the current law.)

 

The front loading and ability to put that money to work immediately is a good point from a player's standpoint.  I think the possibility of a labor lockout is more important, but, yeah, getting your money now matters as you can put it to work.

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45 minutes ago, sleekfeeder said:

I personally would like to hear Aho give some "insight" on Bergevin's comments. I know it will never happen though, unless a reporter gets the onions to ask 

that tough question. Even if it does, I'm sure he would have a very PC response, which would dance around the real truth. Would be nice though...just sayin'.

I agree with most in saying that Bergevin twisted Aho's actions into verbal confusion to stir the pot, equating the notion that signing an offer sheet from a particular team automatically means you WANT to play for said team.

 

Everyone talks about Aho's involvement or conversations with GM's. It's a safe bet that none of it happened. Aho's only number on speed dial is to his Agent looking for a status from pool side. Aho's agent drove all of this, not Sea bass.

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1 minute ago, slapshot02 said:

Everyone talks about Aho's involvement or conversations with GM's. It's a safe bet that none of it happened. Aho's only number on speed dial is to his Agent looking for a status from pool side. Aho's agent drove all of this, not Sea bass.

Did you say you wanted to play in Montreal?

 or 🚫

 

 

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2 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

What does bother me slightly is all this talk about how relieved TD and DW are about the Aho contract being done. 

 

Why not make a stronger offer to start with?  Start at 8x8 right after the Boston series?  The management team were negotiating but they were dug in for the long term negotiations.

 

im not saying TD is cheap here because TD was going to pay the contract that they agreed upon.  I can’t call TD cheap, I haven’t ever spent 500,000 on anything.  I feel like the narrative isn’t quite fitting the action with the relief and lower contract offer.

 

I don't understand that "we're glad to have it over" talk, either. That makes it sound like they were gonna do a Nylander, sticking to their guns ("eight-year deal or nothing") until the very last minute. Now *that* would have been, as the saying goes today, "bad optics."

 

As you say, it's not a matter of TD being cheap. If he was really cheap, he'd say "I can't afford 42 million for one guy" and leave it at that. I do think it's a matter of TD figuring out still how to approach negotiations in which you don't have the leverage to dictate the terms the other party can accept.

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4 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

When that idiot Dreger suggested somebody offer him eight years at 10.8, I said no team in hockey would be dumb enough. It would have basically weaponized the offer sheet process and divided the league's GMs so completely that good-faith negotiations on anything would be out the window for a very long time.

 

....no ill will toward the Habs at all; they actually helped us out. ....I think Bergevin will get an earful from other GMs at their next confab, but we should send him candy and flowers

Excellent point Top.  However, I'll add my view about Habs/Bergevin.

 

IMO it is more of TD being the outsider as owner (not so much about Waddell as GM).  Bergevin may have thought why not take a poke/shot at Carolina thinking opinion up north was on his side.  Why not a low ball Offer Sheet to insult him, or check his wallet (in his mind).  Nothing to lose, right?

 

I think he miscalculated and may not get that earful, but the other GMs likely have empathy for Waddell.  Yes ill will to Habs and their idiot GM.

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2 hours ago, sleekfeeder said:

equating the notion that signing an offer sheet from a particular team automatically means you WANT to play for said team.

 

 

To be fair, if the team declined, he would have been playing for Montreal.  I would think that you would have to at least be "ok" with playing for the team you just signed a contract with.  Otherwise it's a really stupid game of chicken.

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It’s amazing how so many cane’s fan forget what happened back in 1998. Look it up before we start slam the habs for making an offer sheet like they did. 

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21 minutes ago, Chosa84 said:

It’s amazing how so many cane’s fan forget what happened back in 1998. Look it up before we start slam the habs for making an offer sheet like they did. 

 

I assume you're talking about Federov.

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4 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

 

I assume you're talking about Federov.

 

Yup that’s the deal I’m talking about. 

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Yes 21 years ago the Hurricanes did attempt something similar which was also within the rules at the time.  I am way more proud of that than when the Canadiens did in 93 where In the third period of game 2 of the 93 Stanley Cup Finals and with Montreal trailing 2-1 to the Kings, Canadiens coach Jacques Demers called for a measurement on Marty McSorley's stick. The curve was ruled illegal, sending McSorley to the penalty box. Demers pulled the goalie for a 6-on-4 advantage and Montreal tied the game up. They went on to win in overtime. 

 

Again it was using the rules so it was allowable.  A cowards way to win... yes.  I suppose the lesson is if your going to use the rules to crush your opponent you should use a hammer not a fly swatter. 

 

In this case the Habs used a fly swatter.  😉

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, Chosa84 said:

It’s amazing how so many cane’s fan forget what happened back in 1998. Look it up before we start slam the habs for making an offer sheet like they did. 

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2 minutes ago, one-timer said:

Yes 21 years ago the Hurricanes did attempt something similar which was also within the rules at the time.  I am way more proud of that than when the Canadiens did in 93 where In the third period of game 2 of the 93 Stanley Cup Finals and with Montreal trailing 2-1 to the Kings, Canadiens coach Jacques Demers called for a measurement on Marty McSorley's stick. The curve was ruled illegal, sending McSorley to the penalty box. Demers pulled the goalie for a 6-on-4 advantage and Montreal tied the game up. They went on to win in overtime. 

 

Again it was using the rules so it was allowable.  A cowards way to win... yes.  I suppose the lesson is if your going to use the rules to crush your opponent you should use a hammer not a fly swatter. 

 

In this case the Habs used a fly swatter.  😉

 

 

 

 

There is a difference between that deal and this one. Fedorov deal was because owner was getting back at Detroit’s owner. This one was just business.  You also say you remember that deal but do you remember what bonus deal was on that contract that got them in hot water. 

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55 minutes ago, Chosa84 said:

It’s amazing how so many cane’s fan forget what happened back in 1998. Look it up before we start slam the habs for making an offer sheet like they did. 

How many fans forget something that happened when our best current players were born? 

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6 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Or, we got the owner with deep pockets and the will to go into them at the exact time agent tactics required it.

 

I shudder to even consider how this would have played out under JR/PK.

 

I have no ill will toward Aho or any player who tries to get all they can. That's their job/dream. Waddell neatly summer up the org's job: 

 

We might differ on this, Ky, but I think the org knew exactly what it was doing. When that idiot Dreger suggested somebody offer him eight years at 10.8, I said no team in hockey would be dumb enough. It would have basically weaponized the offer sheet process and divided the league's GMs so completely that good-faith negotiations on anything would be out the window for a very long time.

 

So, while many fans were wringing their hands that Aho had not yet been signed, the org knew that, with Aho an RFA, it held all the cards and just had to wait him out. I have no ill will toward the Habs at all; they actually helped us out. None toward Aho either. This is the future; teams have not had loyalty to players for a very long time, and players are essentially adapting their negotiation tactics to fit that reality. I think Bergevin will get an earful from other GMs at their next confab, but we should send him candy and flowers. Thanks to him, we got a shorter commitment but one long enough to figure out if this kid's our future, and if not, to give us an escape hatch. Meanwhile, we got to say we wanted him for eight, removing any possibility that his agent could claim we weren't serious/weren't willing to max him. But he wanted the shorter deal to keep his options open, and I'd bet Waddell did too. So Aho went out and found somebody (dumb enough to) offer him what he wanted. From the org's perspective, the Habs did all the work and we got the benefit. And everybody's happy. Works for me.

 

 

I agree it worked out in the end, and as soon as I saw the details of the offer sheet I knew we would match and have him at a decent AAV.

 

My problem is with Aho’s role in this. That’s not going to change.

 

Look how many other high-profile RFA’s are unsigned. Aho was basically the first big domino to fall. The others are still negotiating, the way it’s normally been done over the last...forever.

 

Aho, his agent, and Montreal worked to force the Hurricanes hand. There is no way around that. Aho forced a decision and I’m never a fan of the inmates running the asylum.

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