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Canes will match offer Sheet on Aho 5yrs 8.45mil AAV

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50 minutes ago, Kyrule said:

Aho, his agent, and Montreal worked to force the Hurricanes hand. There is no way around that. Aho forced a decision and I’m never a fan of the inmates running the asylum.

 

Well, "the committee" continued to try and ram a 8 year contract down Aho's throat (imho because they were trying to get a discount on a longer contract).  How many times do you have to say "no" to an 8-year contract before you get frustrated?  And then you publicly state: "that's all?" when you find out what Montreal's offer sheet was.  If $8.5m was less than you expected to have to match, why was our last offer $7.5m (I say "last" not as our "final" offer)?  I get how negotiations work but at some point it seems a little under-handed.  If we had made a legitimate offer to begin with, this never would have happened.

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4 hours ago, sleekfeeder said:

Did you say you wanted to play in Montreal?

 or 🚫

 

 

 

Not necessarily directing this at you, sleek - your post is just the one i chose to quote.

 

Of course Aho wanted to play for a team that was holding a sheet of paper in one hand and over $42M to be given to him over the next 5 years in the other.  I expect he would have said the same about any team holding that money at him - i know i would and i'd expect a good chunk of the people here who are throwing him out with the dishwater would as well.  Doesn't mean Montreal's his lifelong dream.  Doesn't mean he doesn't want to play for the Canes too.  Doesn't mean he'd rather play for the Habs than the Canes.  Kid wants to play hockey and get paid for it - you think he's going to say 'nah, i don't want to play for you guys'?  Pffft.

 

Only thing i'll say about it is that with this kind of money being deposited into his bank account, i hope he doesn't take his regularly-scheduled month at the beginning of the season to get warmed up and that he doesn't go cold again, injury-related or no, a month before the end of the regular season.  Not because of any of this with the offer sheet, but because he's now being paid like a 1C and needs to look like one from start to finish.  He does that, i'll be smiling and profiling into next summer.

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59 minutes ago, Kyrule said:

 

I agree it worked out in the end, and as soon as I saw the details of the offer sheet I knew we would match and have him at a decent AAV.

 

My problem is with Aho’s role in this. That’s not going to change.

 

Look how many other high-profile RFA’s are unsigned. Aho was basically the first big domino to fall. The others are still negotiating, the way it’s normally been done over the last...forever.

 

Aho, his agent, and Montreal worked to force the Hurricanes hand. There is no way around that. Aho forced a decision and I’m never a fan of the inmates running the asylum.

I agree with this but we’ll probably never know much about the detail of this.  The fact is, Brayden Point is still out there, with the same agent and with Tampa in a bind, and everything we hear there is, “the player loves Tampa and doesn’t want to be anywhere else”, so they continue to work with Tampa on a contract.

 

Now, what very well may be happening is that the Aho offer sheet is more about leveraging Tampa and forcing them to the table with $9M or $9.5M AAV for Brayden Point.  In other words, use Aho to get the market moving; scare Tampa into thinking someone will offer sheet Point.  Still, there’s no way around the fact that Aho was complicit in forcing a “less than ideal” resolution in terms of cash flow an revenue in a lock out year.  It’s his right, but I will still maintain that he and his agent went out of their way to put a small market team in (what they thought) was a difficult position that might make them consider letting him go.  

 

Maybe Aho will come to the realization that the terms of the offer sheet actually undervalued his worth (the agent and Montreal basically used a gimmick (signing bonuses) and then said he was only worth Montreal’s first, second, and third draft choices in the 2020 draft).  It will be fun to speculate whether Aho is happy with his agent or not after Brayden Point’s deal gets done.  Though not likely to happen, it would be great to see Aho fire Gerry Johansson at some point.  There are a lot of reasons he could be upset (below market value, maybe he really did want to go to Montreal and his agent failed etc.)  But this is all speculative; we’ll most likely never know how he really feels and that’s fine too.  As long as he shows up and produces all will be forgotten.  

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23 minutes ago, wa1010 said:

 

Well, "the committee" continued to try and ram a 8 year contract down Aho's throat (imho because they were trying to get a discount on a longer contract).  How many times do you have to say "no" to an 8-year contract before you get frustrated?  And then you publicly state: "that's all?" when you find out what Montreal's offer sheet was.  If $8.5m was less than you expected to have to match, why was our last offer $7.5m (I say "last" not as our "final" offer)?  I get how negotiations work but at some point it seems a little under-handed.  If we had made a legitimate offer to begin with, this never would have happened.

 

Ahh, more Dundon is cheap talk. Yawn.

 

I guess Laine, Conner, Point, Rantanen, Provorov, Warenski, Tkachuk, Marner, etc. are all getting low-ball offers from cheap management and they should do whatever they can to force their organization’s hand.

 

Funny, they are still negotiating and I’m sure they have said no plenty of times. That’s how negotiating works.

 

But you guys are probably right with all of your guesses and assumptions. Poor Aho wasn’t being treated fairly. It’s ONLY Carolina that does this, no other organization.

 

I’ll remind you that it was Aho who didn’t want to negotiate during the season. It was Aho’s camp who refused to submit a counter offer. It was Aho’s camp that essentially stopped negotiations even at this early stage. 

 

For those saying it was Aho’s agent, did he sign the offer sheet or Aho himself?

 

.

Edited by Kyrule

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5 minutes ago, Kyrule said:

 

Ahh, more Dundon is cheap talk. Yawn.

 

I guess Laine, Conner, Rantanen, Provorov, Warenski, Tkachuk, Marner, etc. are all getting low-ball offers from cheap management and they should do whatever they can to force their organization’s hand.

 

Funny, they are still negotiating and I’m sure they have said no plenty of times. That’s how negotiating works.

 

But you guys are probably right with all of your guesses and assumptions. Poor Aho wasn’t being treated fairly. It’s only Carolina that does this, no other organization.

 

I’ll remind you that it was Aho who didn’t want to negotiate during the season. It was Aho’s camp who refused to submit a counter offer. It was Aho’s camp that essentially stopped negotiations even at this early stage. 

 

For those saying it was Aho’s agent, did he sign the offer sheet or Aho himself?

Frankly speaking neither you nor anybody else knows how negotiations for other RFAs mentioned above go. Maybe players will wait till season starts and their teams fail without them playing? And also Winnipeg and Toronto do not have a lot of cap space available to easily suit their top caliber RFAs.

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Frankly speaking I never claimed to have inside information/know how negotiations are going with the players I mentioned, so your comment is irrelevant (at least in my case).

 

Actually if you read what I wrote again, you will (hopefully) see that I was being sarcastic about knowing how negotiations are going/went.

 

The rest of what I wrote is factual, it’s not subjective.

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I can’t say I’ll ever feel the same about Aho after this, but it’s hard to put the blame on him. The Hurricanes are not in a cap bind like Toronto and invited something like this when they didn’t get Aho signed a lot sooner. One of Dundon’s committee members is a former player agent who is supposed to handle contracts. It just seems like money was not the only issue here-term was important to Aho. Tampa Bay played out the string with Stamkos, and he signed there when he could have gone anywhere. Toronto gave Matthews the shorter term he wanted. Every situation is different, but I hope our management learned to listen a little more carefully to what a player wants, and not let contracts drag on forever. Especially with your best player. Dundon and Waddell said all the right things and you have to take them at their word. No hard feelings. We’re glad the contract is done. Let’s move on and win hockey games. For all the wringing of hands this caused, that is the right attitude to take, for the Canes and for us fans.

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I hear ya bdc, but as previously mentioned, when I think of Toronto and Nylander, as well as the marquee RFAs who haven't yet been signed this summer (Laine, Conner, Point, Rantanen, Provorov, Warenski, Tkachuk, Marner, etc.), that does temper my perspective regarding the Committees negotiations. To me the key is making sure the situation doesn't get to the point of animosity between the team and player (as compared to his agent).  On that front, we're all just speculating; we have no actual idea if things between Aho and the Committee started to get heated.  The team is saying all the right things, but unfortunately Aho has to remain silent until the Canes actually formally match the offer sheet.  Once they do it will be interesting to hear what he has to say.  I'm not expecting anything other than the standard p.r. spiel, but it will still be nice to hear it.

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11 minutes ago, bluedevilcane said:

The Hurricanes invited something like this when they didn’t get Aho signed a lot sooner. 

 

I hope our management learned to listen a little more carefully to what a player wants, and not let contracts drag on forever.

 

Again, Aho didn’t want to negotiate during the season. Aho and his camp stopped negotiations.

 

Again, Aho is the first big RFA to be signed. How did Carolina invite this? I guess every team that hasn’t signed their big RFA(s) is inviting this. Teams should just bend to the will of the players.

 

Drag on forever?

 

You mean from the time the season ended until Aho signed the offer sheet? Other negotiations have been going on for a lot longer without a resolution.

 

This is the norm, our management doesn’t need to learn anything. An offer sheet is not the norm. Forcing your organization’s hand is not the norm. If anyone needs to learn something, it’s Aho.

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12 minutes ago, Kyrule said:

 

Again, Aho didn’t want to negotiate during the season. Aho and his camp stopped negotiations.

 

Again, Aho is the first big RFA to be signed. How did Carolina invite this? I guess every team that hasn’t signed their big RFA(s) is inviting this. Teams should just bend to the will of the players.

 

Drag on forever?

 

You mean from the time the season ended until Aho signed the offer sheet? Other negotiations have been going on for a lot longer without a resolution.

 

This is the norm, our management doesn’t need to learn anything. An offer sheet is not the norm. Forcing your organization’s hand is not the norm. If anyone needs to learn something, it’s Aho.

According to Adam Gold, the offer made by the Canes in Vancouver that Aho’s agent would not make a counteroffer to was $7.25 for 8 years. So the team knew that Aho wanted a shorter term, and in my humble opinion, was quite light on the $ amount if it wanted 8 years. My point was the Canes need to learn from this and not play hardball in every negotiation. Especially not with the player the owner identified as our most important. It says a lot that Waddell thought the offer sheet would have been for more. If he believed someone else would pay more than $8.5 million, why were we offering $7.25 million? This market has enough challenges without developing a reputation for being unreasonable in salary negotiations. I’ll welcome Aho back and so will his teammates, I bet. We’ll never know everything that went on in this spectacle, but I guarantee his teammates will.

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24 minutes ago, bluedevilcane said:

It says a lot that Waddell thought the offer sheet would have been for more. If he believed someone else would pay more than $8.5 million, why were we offering $7.25 million?

 

Because that is how negotiations work. What DW’s statement tells me is that we were willing to go a lot higher than our most recent offer. Aho decided to terminate negotiations and force things on his terms.

 

Btw, do you really think the first few offers to other high-profile players aren’t way below value? 

 

Why people assume the Canes were playing “hardball” while everyone else is just negotiating is beyond me. Aho went straight past “hardball” and right to blackmail. 

 

 

.

Edited by Kyrule

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1 hour ago, bluedevilcane said:

I can’t say I’ll ever feel the same about Aho after this, but it’s hard to put the blame on him. The Hurricanes are not in a cap bind like Toronto and invited something like this when they didn’t get Aho signed a lot sooner. One of Dundon’s committee members is a former player agent who is supposed to handle contracts. It just seems like money was not the only issue here-term was important to Aho. Tampa Bay played out the string with Stamkos, and he signed there when he could have gone anywhere. Toronto gave Matthews the shorter term he wanted. Every situation is different, but I hope our management learned to listen a little more carefully to what a player wants, and not let contracts drag on forever. Especially with your best player. Dundon and Waddell said all the right things and you have to take them at their word. No hard feelings. We’re glad the contract is done. Let’s move on and win hockey games. For all the wringing of hands this caused, that is the right attitude to take, for the Canes and for us fans.

I will have no problem with Aho as long as he continues to play hard. While these guys are part of a team, they also have to look out for themselves. 

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28 minutes ago, Kyrule said:

 

Because that is how negotiations work. What DW’s statement tells me is that we were willing to go a lot higher than our most recent offer. Aho decided to terminate negotiations and force things on his terms.

 

Btw, do you really think the first few offers to other high-profile players aren’t way below value? 

 

Why people assume the Canes were playing “hardball” while everyone else is just negotiating is beyond me. Aho went straight past “hardball” and right to blackmail. 

 

 

.

Blackmail? That a crazy comment. He has offered what he wanted from another team why should he decline that? Even more so when it was a 90% chance the team matches it, considering they told us all along they would. 

Look he has no allegiance to any team. He was drafted as a second rounder and was paid like it dispite far out playing the money

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Maybe “ultimatum” would have been a better/more subtle way to put it.

 

I guess I just live in a fantasy world where everything isn’t about squeezing every last penny out of the employer who hired you. If you don’t like what they are offering, just find any way you can to get your immediate gratification/what you want as quickly as possible.

 

I guess in the end it just comes down to the fact that people have different values/beliefs.

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15 minutes ago, Kyrule said:

Maybe “ultimatum” would have been a better/more subtle way to put it.

 

I guess I just live in a fantasy world where everything isn’t about squeezing every last penny out of the employer who hired you. If you don’t like what they are offering, just find any way you can to get your immediate gratification/what you want as quickly as possible.

 

I guess in the end it just comes down to the fact that people have different values/beliefs.

The sports world is a different beast unfortunately. The athletes are not just employees they are the product. They are worth far more to the owners the a standard employee. Fans come to see their favorite players on their favorite teams. And as shown by this past season with out good results fans dont show. Therefore you want to make money you have to have a product worth watching (ie players), and players risk their relative health and torture their bodies to play through a full season. We fans always say " they make millions to play a game" without ever thinking about the hours per day, every day spent in the gym and hours after every game tending to the bruises and bumps that would make most of us call in the next day. The fact that they very well could miss the birth of a child or the first step or any other first. There are few professions the deal with everything they deal with, so there are few that make that kind of money. There are even fewer that generate that kind of money.

 

I used to feel the same and I get it, but remember a few things

1. These guys won't make it to everyday Joe retirement age, so they have to make it now.

2. They risk injuries that few other profession do ( Leo and Military) not so much as the same type obviously gunshot however in the same potentially life altering way ( not being able to walk in your 50's or the ultra raw getting your neck sliced open.

And 3

They are not just employees they are the product who usually worked out their rookie deal dreadfully under paid like Aho

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Guy's, Aho and his agent did the Canes a favor! RFA's have only a few ways to put pressure on the team owning his rights. So, would you have rather he didn't sign the offer, and instead held out like Nylander; missing most of 2019-20. I doubt it. Let's move on. Actually, the way this episode played out proved that TD will step up when necessary; something that wouldn't have happened with previous ownership. He gives the impression that he's someone that doesn't like to be jerked around. Actually it was Bergivin who got jerked around; by the agent. If TD sincerely felt that Aho was doing anything other than exercising his CBA rights; 21M wouldn't be going Aho's way. One thing for sure, GM's around the league took notice!!! That said, we had better extend Svech before his 3rd season....

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Aho signed the offer sheet to insure he got what he wanted, which was a 5 year contract.  I grew up during an era when Montreal ruled hockey, Kings of the Original 6.  Same thing true for the NY Yankees and Boston Celtics.  All of that was prior to free agency and collective bargaining agreements.  I don't believe Aho signing the offer sheet is in any way a signal that he wanted/wants to play in Montreal.  What he wants, and what he gets now, is to enter unrestricted free agency in 5 years entering the peak of his career.  Good advice from his representation, nothing wrong with his tactics.

That noted, the Canes were willing to secure his future for 8 years or so, and he rejected that.  He is betting on himself.  That is good news for the Canes.  That means over the course of these 5 seasons, he wants, and needs, to continuously improve his game to make the shorter term contract pay him back at the end of 5 years.  Those 5 years that he is betting on himself to have good years will be spent in a Canes uniform.  There you go, 5 years of WIN/WIN.  I would like to thank Marc Bergivin and the entire Montreal organization (who of course no longer rule the NHL) for facilitating this outcome.

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7 hours ago, Kyrule said:

Aho, his agent, and Montreal worked to force the Hurricanes hand. There is no way around that. Aho forced a decision and I’m never a fan of the inmates running the asylum.

Just calling the players the inmates--when without them there'd be no game--indicates to me that we'll never agree on this. But thanks for sharing your POV, and I'll reciprocate.

 

Everything Aho did was within the rules--rules the owners have mutually agreed to. Nobody held a gun to their heads to get them to sign off on the last CBA, and they're the ones responsible for players' distrust of them in the first place, thanks to years of treating players like property instead of like what they are, and what every employee is: a person, with talents and needs and a life outside of work.

 

The NHLPA is a union. Unions form for one reason: labor practices which employees find unfair. Before Curt Flood, players had no leverage at all. They literally were property. Now they do--and they have every right to use it, a right that was hard won. 

 

Aho wanted a shorter-term deal than the Canes would offer, so he went out and, completely within the rules, did what he had to do to get what he wanted. Until owners wake up and realize that without the players there are no games--something they apparently forget every decade or so, when they lock players out of their arenas--players will be more than happy to keep reminding them. Further, both our owner and GM are fine with how this played out, as they should be. Shorter deals=more options. Both sides win.

 

Edited by top-shelf-1
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Svech is probably saying "Thanks Seabass, for showing me how it's done." Inside he's thinking, "I'm gonna play my butt off so I can ask for 10.5per couple years from now."

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1 minute ago, Bing_Chow said:

Svech is probably saying "Thanks Seabass, for showing me how it's done." Inside he's thinking, "I'm gonna play my butt off so I can ask for 10.5per couple years from now."

 

 

If Aho's offer sheet inspires the rest of the team to play their butts off then Montreal did us an even better favor than we realized.

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Glad we have our star signed for 5 years on a sweet deal and flexible enough to give the team options in year 3.   The hand wringing station is to your right.

 

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9 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Aho wanted a shorter-term deal than the Canes would offer, so he went out and, completely within the rules, did what he had to do to get what he wanted. Until owners wake up and realize that without the players there are no games--something they apparently forget every decade or so, when they lock players out of their arenas--players will be more than happy to keep reminding them. Further, both our owner and GM are fine with how this played out, as they should be. Shorter deals=more options. Both sides win.

 

Aho had to like the up front money too.  That's gotta be key since it guarantees a big payout if a lockout occurs.  So, like you say top, it is business and he used it to his advantage.

 

Similarly, Bergivan weaponized their own lockout mess against the free spirit TD that pisses everyone off in the Great White North.  That upfront payment wasn't just to hurt a small market, it is part of what is going on to entice players to stay based on a looming lockout.  Contracts are already being let out that way with good negotiations (i.e. not offer sheets).  So, the owners are biting each other's butts based on their lockout history.  Nice job by the agents to weaponize the threat of a lockout against the owners.

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I'll just add one thought, as far as the concerns about Aho's loyalty.

 

It is entirely possible that Aho's agent called around to see if any GM would do an offer sheet and when Montreal bit he went to SeaBass and asked whether he'd sign it, purely to get the Canes' off their duffs regarding eight years.

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