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gocanes0506

Canes will match offer Sheet on Aho 5yrs 8.45mil AAV

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1 hour ago, top-shelf-1 said:

I'm finding no such comment from TD, only that DW said Montreal "got played" by Aho's agent, which is absolutely true. But that doesn't mean the Canes are unhappy about it.

 

I guess we'll never know exactly how passionate he felt about this.  You are right that perhaps some of the words many are using here are more volatile than what he said.  The point is that he disagrees with the words that came out of the MTL camp.  Consider it a pure business decision if you will.  But TD is a firey guy so I'm sure he felt something, especially noting that agent had "no credibility" in his comments which "might not have been true."  Calling the process a "waste of time" is ironic since DW said it will now save him time from further negotiations.

 

Either way, I'm over this and we're splitting hairs.  This will be signed, sealed and delivered soon.  Time to move on.  Aho's play next year will say everything we need to know.  I doubt the fans will boo Aho, and they shouldn't.  I'm pretty sure, however, there will be some boos for MTL when they arrive for that first game.

 

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/article232186637.html

 

Quote

Dundon, a Dallas billionaire, called an offer sheet a “waste of time” and no one should question the Canes’ or his ability to make such a large payment, noting, “I’m very fortunate to be in the position I am. This sounds terrible but writing that check is no big deal.”

 

Dundon on Tuesday disputed that notion, saying, “I think the other team got manipulated into believing something that might not have been true.”

“There’s no scenario where Sebastian Aho doesn’t want to be on the Hurricanes,” Dundon said. “It is in his right to use that leverage the (collective bargaining agreement) provides to get the most money from us and that’s all that happened. I have not heard Sebastian say that. If he said that it would be different but he didn’t. So the fact that an agent said it means that there’s no credibility to it.”

 

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Two thoughts occurred to me recently.

1 Did DW maybe stick real hard on the max term hoping that some team would help set Aho's price south of $8.5M once the window opened. Many people around here were talking 9-10 as being what it would possibly take at one point. If this was actually a calculated move, then we do not ever need to worry about the quality of our GM again.

2 The Marleau deal may have been made not have been made to give us 2 1st round picks next year, but to give us one in case we decided to pursue an offer sheet of our own.

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8 hours ago, DevildogKodi said:

The Marleau deal may have been made not have been made to give us 2 1st round picks next year, but to give us one in case we decided to pursue an offer sheet of our own.

That was a thought that ran through my head too.  But who would our target be?  

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Unless we’re moving more cap space we don’t have space for an offer sheet.  

 

Maybe take on another contract to help a team to increase their cap space.  Not another Marleau move but get a good but cheaper player.

 

now if, a big if, Montreal tries to offer sheet Marner or Laine then we could sweep in help that team. Get a good young player like Kapanen, Nylander or Ehlers.

 

calgary is still going to have cap issues too.

 

i don’t think the offseason is done for us but it may be move in August.

Edited by gocanes0506

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21 hours ago, remkin said:

I have to think TD was a bit miffed that Montreal took this swing at us. I know I was. But, the committee met, probably vented their feelings about Montreal pulling this, then thought it through and put on the perfect public face for it. 

 

Really the committee IMO has handled so many thing well. If I wasn't about to run out the door I'd list them and it would be a lot including just about every draft pick. The one that I'm still thinking may not have been as great as the others was the DeHaan trade. I think we panicked a bit that we might, amazingly be put in a cap squeeze if we had to match a big Aho offer, AND that we might end up without a goalie after UFA took the best ones.

 

But we moved out a chunk of our capital on D for two guys who at least so far, look like AHL-NHL tweeners. My hope is that our pro scouts see something good in these guys and they turn out to be better than advertised. It happened with Martinook, so I'm not ready to declare this one bad.

I think one of the main drivers in the DeHaan trade had to be his shoulder.  Shoulders are slow to heal, and sometimes are never completely right again.  Two surgeries to the same shoulder in two years upped the risk significantly.  If reports are accurate that he will not be back until Dec, then they were going to play 35% of the regular season without him anyway.  You have to wonder if he were 100% healthy would they have traded him, and if they did, what would have been the return. 

 

All things considered I am OK with this, and think we will be more than fine.

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2 hours ago, reelpirate5 said:

Shoulders are slow to heal, and sometimes are never completely right again. 

Yep...have had three on my left in the past three years and am probably getting my right done later this month.  My range of motion is becoming somewhat limited and there is a slight drop off in strength as a result.  Nothing I can’t handle for my job (and it’ll mean more $$ in VA disability later on), but it would be insanely limiting as a hockey player.

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I think DeHaan's trade was a combination of concern for shoulder and the fact that we had 6 Dmen that slot in the top 4 for many teams, 4 as top pair for some. Add in that we have Fleury and Bean need playing time something had to give. Personally I think we still need to move another Dman, as long as it isn't part of PBJS. Pesce and Slavin are the foundation of our defense. Pure speculation on my part, but I would bet our season turned around when Pesce was moved to his offside and his ice time increased. 

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48 minutes ago, DevildogKodi said:

Pure speculation on my part, but I would bet our season turned around when Pesce was moved to his offside and his ice time increased. 

Yup, that and SeaBass and TT getting on the kill were huge.

 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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As I read somewhere, Pesce prefers his off-side.  And also that was the time when Hamilton's had fully healed...  Sort of a few things happening at once.  

 

But as much as I like DeHaan, we were (and perhaps still are) over-invested in defense.  I would think as a general rule you would spend approximately twice as much of forwards as on defense.  I know last year we were nowhere close to that ratio.  I think with the Fishy extension along with TT we will be closer to that amount now.  Of course we have Pesce and Slavin on ridiculously valued long-term deals, so the pendulum could swing the other way soon.  As much as I like TVR, we are paying him 2.5M to be a bottom pairing defenseman.  That is the only contract that sticks out to me and I say yikes.  And that one is only through this year.

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2 hours ago, ironman87 said:

As much as I like TVR, we are paying him 2.5M to be a bottom pairing defenseman.  That is the only contract that sticks out to me and I say yikes.  And that one is only through this year.

I agree on both points, yikes and really liking his game. But I think of the yikes more generally, i.e., in the bigger scheme of were NHL pay is going in general. I think this is the last year we'll be in the low 80s and that we may see 90M by 2025, maybe sooner. 

 

As recently as 20 years ago the huge majority of NHL players were still Canadians who were largely brought up in a system that only rewarded stardom, not specialization. Those days are gone. Not only has Canada lost control of the pay ethos, it is no longer the only system producing bonafide talent--both superstars and specialists.

 

Last year's Canes' success was a textbook example of the need to have really good players on every line and pairing. I hate to pick on Necas, but his deficiencies were absolutely glaring, despite looking to many scouts like he was shoo-in for making the NHL when playing at his prior level. The quality of play in this league is off the charts and only increasing, and I wouldn't be surprised if the days of the $1 million-dollar-a-year 5-6 dman are very soon gone, never to return. 

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On 7/6/2019 at 7:42 AM, DevildogKodi said:

I think DeHaan's trade was a combination of concern for shoulder and the fact that we had 6 Dmen that slot in the top 4 for many teams, 4 as top pair for some. Add in that we have Fleury and Bean need playing time something had to give. Personally I think we still need to move another Dman, as long as it isn't part of PBJS. Pesce and Slavin are the foundation of our defense. Pure speculation on my part, but I would bet our season turned around when Pesce was moved to his offside and his ice time increased. 

If they move a Dman, I would suggest it be TVR.  There is nothing negative to say about his play as a 3rd line Dman, but I think that Roland McKeown would deliver similar results at some cost savings.  The top 4 are set, and a 3rd line of McKeown and Bean/Fleury should suffice, with TVR's $ going towards JW's contract (hopefully) and RFA's signings.

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6 hours ago, beboplar said:

If they move a Dman, I would suggest it be TVR.  There is nothing negative to say about his play as a 3rd line Dman, but I think that Roland McKeown would deliver similar results at some cost savings.  The top 4 are set, and a 3rd line of McKeown and Bean/Fleury should suffice, with TVR's $ going towards JW's contract (hopefully) and RFA's signings.

 

 

I know we're in the Aho discussion but since we're here i'll carry on.  Personally i'd be hesitant to move another D-man.  Despite what we might think about our defensive depth, RB & Committee felt our 7th guy wasn't ready to play more than 8 minutes a night in the playoffs while the rest of that depth weren't even ready for that.  As it is, the roster on the Canes website lists Forsling as the 6th guy.  Honestly i haven't seen much of him, but from what i have seen, he's a step or three down from deHaan.  We have an injury of any kind (and isn't it already in the cards that TVR will miss part of the season?), and we're dealing with a bottom-6 pairing of 2 of Forsling/Fleury/Bean/McKeown (keep in mind we've lost half of our Charlotte D-corps).  Unless another top-6 defenseman is added from somewhere, i'd be very hesitant to trade another of our NHLers.  Maybe those guys are ready, but the brass didn't think they were 7 short weeks ago.  The Hurricanes website only lists Slavin, Pesce, Hamilton, Faulk, TVR, & Forsling, while the Chex site only lists Bean & Sellgren as signed and Fleury, McKeown, & Carrick as RFAs (though i thought i saw somewhere where Carrick had left as well).  deHaan is gone; Robertson is gone; Didier is gone; Renouf is gone; Wesley is gone; Sanguinetti (who none of us want to see back anyway) is an unsigned UFA.  We're at the point where we only have 11 guys to fill 12 NHL/AHL spots, much less cover for any injuries.

 

Edited by realmdrakkar
corrected
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I don’t like that Aho felt he had to resort to an offer sheet to get something done before training camp.  

 

Glad he is back.

 

hopefully the cheap description is gone

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I wonder if the bonus $$$ have been deposited in the Bank of Helsinki; or wherever he banks!!!!! What a great day for Aho and his family. Celebrate young man!!!

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5 hours ago, realmdrakkar said:

I know we're in the Aho discussion but since we're here i'll carry on.  Personally i'd be hesitant to move another D-man.  Despite what we might think about our defensive depth, RB & Committee felt our 7th guy was only capable of playing 3 minutes a night in the playoffs while the rest of that depth wasn't even ready for that.  As it is, the roster on the Canes website lists Forsling as the 6th guy.  Honestly i haven't seen much of him, but from what i have seen, he's a step or three down from deHaan.  We have an injury of any kind (and isn't it already in the cards that TVR will miss part of the season?), and we're dealing with a bottom-6 pairing of 2 of Forsling/Fleury/Bean/McKeown (keep in mind we've lost half of our Charlotte D-corps).  Unless another top-6 defenseman is added from somewhere, i'd be very hesitant to trade another of our NHLers.  Maybe those guys are ready, but the brass didn't think they were 7 short weeks ago.  The Hurricanes website only lists Slavin, Pesce, Hamilton, Faulk, TVR, & Forsling, while the Chex site only lists Bean & Sellgren as signed and Fleury, McKeown, & Carrick as RFAs (though i thought i saw somewhere where Carrick had left as well).  deHaan is gone; Robertson is gone; Didier is gone; Renouf is gone; Wesley is gone; Sanguinetti (who none of us want to see back anyway) is an unsigned UFA.  We're at the point where we only have 11 guys to fill 12 NHL/AHL spots, much less cover for any injuries.

 

In all fairness to Fleury he averaged 7:42 ice time in the playoffs (he did get only 3:31 in one game).  Saying he was only capable of playing 3 minutes (less than half the time he actually played) is misleading.  That doesn't negate your point; but no need to disparage the guy way more than 7:42 suggests, imo.

Edited by LakeLivin
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Aho's statement on twitter makes it sound like he was being manipulated by his agent. "I had limited options for moving along the process to get a deal done. It was always important to me to be on the ice for the first day of training camp. The entire situation has been difficult for me and my family and I am happy it is at an end." He was nowhere near missing training camp. They only negotiated for about 6 weeks. Is that really enough time to come to the conclusion that reaching a deal through normal negotiations was impossible? Couldn't Aho's camp have used the offer sheet in negotiations without having him sign it and give the impression he'd given up on the Canes and was wanting to go somewhere else?

 

I'm glad Aho is where he wants to be and I hope he has a productive 5 years. I also hope he finds a new agent because this process didn't have to be as confusing and upsetting as it was.

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6 minutes ago, Kaze said:

Aho's statement on twitter makes it sound like he was being manipulated by his agent. "I had limited options for moving along the process to get a deal done. It was always important to me to be on the ice for the first day of training camp. The entire situation has been difficult for me and my family and I am happy it is at an end." He was nowhere near missing training camp. They only negotiated for about 6 weeks. Is that really enough time to come to the conclusion that reaching a deal through normal negotiations was impossible? Couldn't Aho's camp have used the offer sheet in negotiations without having him sign it and give the impression he'd given up on the Canes and was wanting to go somewhere else?

 

I'm glad Aho is where he wants to be and I hope he has a productive 5 years. I also hope he finds a new agent because this process didn't have to be as confusing and upsetting as it was.

Offer sheet without signing is nothing. And there was no guarantee that MTL or any other team would have sent another offer sheet.

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I wonder who wrote Aho’s statement.

 

It must have been difficult for him and his family. Am I going to make 42 million? 60 million?

 

I wish I had to go through “difficult times” like that.

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Also, what is coming out now is that Montreal wanted to offer sheet Brayden Point first, but Point said no, I want to work things out with Tampa Bay.

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2 hours ago, Kaze said:

Aho's statement on twitter makes it sound like he was being manipulated by his agent.

I guess we read different statements.

 

He knew he had limited options and he exercised them, and he said so. Trying to "blame" the agent or Aho--when there is nothing to blame them for--what's the point?

 

I get that a lot of guys think the players rule the roost and don't like it. I'm one of those who know they do and love it. As others have posted, owners' profits have increased at levels exponential to players' rewards. Fans who don't like that players are only trying to get some equivalency would change their tune after exactly one game pitting owners and trainers against GMs and PR people.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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2 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

I don’t like that the Canes left Aho no option but felt he had to resort to an offer sheet to get something done before training camp.

Fixed.

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