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gocanes0506

Canes will match offer Sheet on Aho 5yrs 8.45mil AAV

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1 minute ago, Kyrule said:

 

Not sure what you mean Coastal, I’ve never been on the Dundon is cheap bandwagon, quite the opposite.

 

I’m saying the way the contract was structured/front-loaded it was meant to put the Canes in a tough spot by forcing them to pony up now in real world money.

 

It was Montreal’s only hope. It failed.

 

 

 

You followed it up by saying any any moves/additions are unlikely.  Did you not?  Dundon is cheap, he's done is the way I took that.

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Good thing I didnt buy the Canes before Dundon... Cause Aho would be on his way to Montreal and I would have 8.5 million to spend elsewhere....  the kid is good but not worth all this hype he/agent behavior today.....

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36 minutes ago, Danimal38 said:

  we were his last resort when no one else wanted him.  He wanted to be a big city star.  So we kind of agree. Not sure what your point was.  He thought he would get the super hot girl and when he didnt he came back to ol trusty.  Heck we've all done it. 

Your original post sounded more like we were the desperate ones. Sorry if I misunderstood.

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2 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

 

You followed it up by saying any any moves/additions are unlikely.  Did you not?  Dundon is cheap, he's done is the way I took that.

 

I’m saying we are going to have to pay 21 million dollars in the next 12 or 24 months (someone feel free to let me know which).

 

That is a lot of coin. I wouldn’t blame Dundon for not spending during that time. Therefore I don’t think he is cheap.

 

When everyone is saying this is going to make things tough for Carolina in the short-term, I’m assuming they are talking about how much we will have to spend in real world money, not cap money.

 

Unless I’m wrong...

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3 minutes ago, Kyrule said:

 

I’m saying we are going to have to pay 21 million dollars in the next 12 or 24 months (someone feel free to let me know which).

 

That is a lot of coin. I wouldn’t blame Dundon for not spending during that time. Therefore I don’t think he is cheap.

 

When everyone is saying this is going to make things tough for Carolina in the short-term, I’m assuming they are talking about how much we will have to spend in real world money, not cap money.

 

Unless I’m wrong...

 

Thanks, that makes perfect sense on a day when everything is crazy.  From what I've read and understood the structure of the contract offers a lot of tax relief and don't pin me down on details.

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4 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

The Canes have some work to do to clean up that richard head of a GM in Montreal going on about Aho wanting to be there.  What a richard head.

Just kick their donkee every chance we get.

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17 minutes ago, PamlicoPuck said:

Good thing I didnt buy the Canes before Dundon... Cause Aho would be on his way to Montreal and I would have 8.5 million to spend elsewhere....  the kid is good but not worth all this hype he/agent behavior today.....

Duchene, a UFA with 8-10 years in the league got $8 million for 7 years. Not sure of his point totals every year, but he was highly sought in free agency. Aho is 21 with 3 years in the league and his AAV is higher. Of course if you look at the trajectory of his production (51-69-83 points), his ceiling is probably higher than Duchene’s. What’s done is done, and assuming we match, hopefully he is a bargain for us. It looks like Montreal did the Aho offer sheet after Duchene went elsewhere. They have made no other significant moves this offseason, and we can tie up $8+ million of cap space for a week before we match the offer sheet. Not likely to be any impact free agents available then, so the offer sheet could actually hurt them and also could be seen as an act of desperation meant to assure their fans they are trying to bring in players. 

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I am totally ignorant when it comes to all this drama. if Aho doesn't want to go to Les Habs, why would he sign their offer sheet? I don't understand?

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i'm sorry but I can not believe that a 21 year old hockey player is so good that without him this team is going to go down the toilet.   I say let him go and play in Montreal and have a good time.   This team will be just fine without his services.  I don't know how this small market team  can afford  to be tied up with $21 million dollars in one player for the next year or two.  That's a few pretty good mid range players that would do quite well being coached by Brind'amour and company.   Aho is good  but he certainly is not worth all this hype.   I think Montreal is still upset at us for beating them 4 straight in the 2006 Stanley Cup run.   I will never forget the Montreal fan sitting next to me and my wife in game 1 of that series.  They beat us 6-1.  He stood up and told us "Don't forget hockey belongs to us".   I wish I could have run in to him when that series was over.  This team is going to be o.k this year.....with or without Aho.  Go Canes !!

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Just now, hockeybaby said:

I am totally ignorant when it comes to all this drama. if Aho doesn't want to go to Les Habs, why would he sign their offer sheet? I don't understand?

Because the team was set on 8 years, he wanted 5.  He made it happen on his own terms.

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So, he got Montreal to offer 5 yrs, knowing we would match so Aho got what he wanted. We could've just offered the 5 and avoided all the drama. Oh well, I know nothing.

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12 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

 

Thanks, that makes perfect sense on a day when everything is crazy.  From what I've read and understood the structure of the contract offers a lot of tax relief and don't pin me down on details.

 

Just to clarify further, what analysts are saying is that front-loading contracts is a tool that big-money teams are using to bully or out-bid small market teams. 

 

Two teams can can offer the same contract, but the big-money team can afford to front-load it so the player has the option of getting a huge chunk of money in a short period of time. Small-market teams need to pay big money over time/spread out. Given the option most players will take the money now (big-money team wins, small-market team loses). This is relevant in free agency, and obviously it holds true when an offer sheet is tendered.

 

Montreal gambled that Dundon wouldn’t fork over 21 million in the next 12/24 months on one player. They were wrong. 

 

Now we should take the full amount of time to match so it hampers Montreal, but the casual fan likely doesn’t understand all of this so we will likely match sooner rather than later to ease the angst amongst the fan-base.

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As long as he gives the team 100% for the duration of his stay, and lives up to expectations production-wise, I don't care how he got his way. 

5yrs of the Aho that we all hope he would become is worth 8.5AAV easy.

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1 minute ago, hockeybaby said:

So, he got Montreal to offer 5 yrs, knowing we would match so Aho got what he wanted. We could've just offered the 5 and avoided all the drama. Oh well, I know nothing.

Well it’s negotiation. It doesn’t make a lot of sense for the team to only buy 2 years of UFA time for a guy who is your franchise guy.  The players know that the cap will jump big time in 4 years and they want a piece.

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I don't know the details about RFA/UFA but there is something valuable about this 5y deal that players want. Matthews signed a 5y contract earlier this year too. If someone can shed some light, I'd appreciate it.

 

5 is the new 8.

Edited by Bing_Chow

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1 minute ago, Bing_Chow said:

I don't know the details about RFA/UFA but there is something valuable about this 5y deal that players want. Matthews signed a 5y contract last year too. If someone can shed some light, I'd appreciate it.

 

5 is the new 8.

They know the cap is going up significantly in the next 4-5 years (Seattle expansion is one big reason), so instead of locking themselves into a certain amount (say $9 mil) in the last 2-3 years, they're banking on being able to get a much higher AAV when a 5-year deal is up.

 

Canadian media likes to play this up in Aho's case as "he wants out and wants to go to MTL", but like you said, other big-name RFA's are trying to do the same thing (most notably Marner right now). Funny how it's just a normal contract negotiation when a player does that up there.

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Spent the day in rural flooded out NC (hurricane Florence) fixing houses as a volunteer.  Come back and it took me 1 hour to read this!

 

I'm absorbing this and may comment later when I'm back.  All I can say now is WOW!

 

PS: people are still hurting down here.  Don't forget them.  We got it good in Raleigh.

Edited by wxray1
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18 minutes ago, Kyrule said:

 

Just to clarify further, what analysts are saying is that front-loading contracts is a tool that big-money teams are using to bully or out-bid small market teams. 

 

Two teams can can offer the same contract, but the big-money team can afford to front-load it so the player has the option of getting a huge chunk of money in a short period of time. Small-market teams need to pay big money over time/spread out. Given the option most players will take the money now (big-money team wins, small-market team loses). This is relevant in free agency, and obviously it holds true when an offer sheet is tendered.

 

Montreal gambled that Dundon wouldn’t fork over 21 million in the next 12/24 months on one player. They were wrong. 

 

Now we should take the full amount of time to match so it hampers Montreal, but the casual fan likely doesn’t understand all of this so we will likely match sooner rather than later to ease the angst amongst the fan-base.

 

Sorry to quote myself but I forgot to mention that signing bonuses are how big-market teams are front loading contracts. A lot of GM’s of small-market teams think that the signing bonus thing is out of control and is being used as somewhat of a loophole to gain a significant advantage.

 

That’s what we saw today.

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That wasn't how I wanted my day to go. Late leaving work, stopped on the way home because a guy collapsed in the road (dehydrated), then get home and takes almost 2 hours to read all the posts while trying to eat.

 

For everyone giving Aho a pass, I remind you that he refused to have contract negotiations during the season. At the time I applauded his work ethic, now I have to question if this was a ploy/tactic of his contract. I have no problem with him wanting to maximize his contract, but if you are going to play hardball then be honest about it and take the time.

 

Don't take this as me giving the org a pass on how they handled everything, there is plenty of blame to go around. If the org wanted to play hardball, then there should have been a polite refusal to put everything on hold until the offseason. 

 

At this point it doesn't matter why or how we got here. The only things that matter now are sign him or not, and clean up the steaming pile of fallout from all this.

 

If it turns out to be an issue in the locker room, ship him out or if TD is really ****** about it all, then I guess he has the money to burn to sit Aho in the press box for the next 5 years and refuse to play him. I am sure that will do him wonders for his next contract.

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I don't really think this Aho situation is a bad deal.  The elements that are disturbing to the Canes are that they:

 

a) are entering into a 5 year commitment, like Aho desired, instead of an 8 year deal, like they wanted.

b) the deal is front loaded, so from a liquidity position, TD probably wishes he did not flush so much $ down that football toilet.

 

At an average of $8.45M per year for the next 5 seasons, the Canes probably have a little wiggle room, because I suspect they may have been expecting to play $9 - $9.5M for the right to sign him to an 8 year deal.  So, in some respect, that gives they about $1 - $1.5M of play money for the next 5 seasons.

 

Just to spite Montreal, I expect management to take this to the 11th hour before agreeing to the terms of the offer sheet, thus tying the Hab's hands for the next 7 days.  

 

Bottom line, today the Canes got pretty much what they wanted in quantifying Aho's costs for the next 5 years, signing Mrazek for 2, getting McGinn for 1 through arbitration.  About the only other decision seems to be JW's, which will come when he is ready.  Do they sign a depth forward?  Maybe.......

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31 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

Well it’s negotiation. It doesn’t make a lot of sense for the team to only buy 2 years of UFA time for a guy who is your franchise guy.  The players know that the cap will jump big time in 4 years and they want a piece.

Saw this in an article today:

 

Carolina GM Don Waddell last week said the team would match any offer, but Monday would only say the team will review its options.

 

I think we have all been reading that for some time.  In my mind, that has lead me to believe there is 0% chance the team will not agree to the terms of the offer sheet.  To not "match" the offer would put management and ownership in the position of having ZERO credibility.  If the fans can not trust the leadership of the team, why be a fan?

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I tell you right now - I will be the first person with a sign at the players entrance referencing Aho signing an offer sheet. Give me 3 months to think of something clever. This is b.s. 

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8 minutes ago, beboplar said:

Saw this in an article today:

 

Carolina GM Don Waddell last week said the team would match any offer, but Monday would only say the team will review its options.

 

I think we have all been reading that for some time.  In my mind, that has lead me to believe there is 0% chance the team will not agree to the terms of the offer sheet.  To not "match" the offer would put management and ownership in the position of having ZERO credibility.  If the fans can not trust the leadership of the team, why be a fan?

I agree.  Also if they let Aho go, all things they have worked to build with the fans is completely gone. Building would be empty again.

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2 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

I agree.  Also if they let Aho go, all things they have worked to build with the fans is completely gone. Building would be empty again.

Right.  TD might as well pound the For Sale sign in the ground if they do not match.  What do they need Montreal's top 3 picks next year for?  The thought of them NOT matching is so far fetched that I am not losing any sleep over it.

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sorry i am habs haters from quebec.......i hate what marc bergevin did to the canes.....i just want to know if he had a lot of chance that the canes did not match the offer????

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