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Newest Cane - Welcome Jake Gardiner

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The more I read and watch about this move, the more I like it. People who seem to know their stuff are almost all saying it was a good move by us. There is universal agreement that this is a very good offensive, smooth skating, puck mover, but also a consensus that while he's not a Pesce-like defender, he's better than his detractors think. Also a very team friendly deal.

 

This video by a big time Leaf's fan who puts up a lot of videos will make you feel pretty good about the move. It's 12.5 minutes long, but even if you only listen to part of it, check out the graph at the end. I'm liking this move even more after this:

 

 

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It is a good move. He looked worse because he was being forced into a top line role where he was asked to be the defender of the pair. 

 

4.025 million for a 2nd pair, UFA, puck moving defender is a steal (which is crazy to say). 

 

He will make some Faulk level mistakes

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46 minutes ago, remkin said:

The more I read and watch about this move, the more I like it. People who seem to know their stuff are almost all saying it was a good move by us. There is universal agreement that this is a very good offensive, smooth skating, puck mover, but also a consensus that while he's not a Pesce-like defender, he's better than his detractors think. Also a very team friendly deal.

 

This video by a big time Leaf's fan who puts up a lot of videos will make you feel pretty good about the move. It's 12.5 minutes long, but even if you only listen to part of it, check out the graph at the end. I'm liking this move even more after this:

 

 

 

I think this is the fix to our PP.  From my understanding this guy is a play maker.  Think a defensemen version of Doug Weight.

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8 hours ago, bluedevil58 said:

I'm confused.   Why did we do this?

This reminds me of when I was going to Berkeley in the early '70's.  The team had both Steve Bartkowski and Vince Ferragamo at QB.  Which begged the question, "How many QBs can the team play at once?"

The Canes are so loaded at D that the rumored trade of Fleury to Edmonton sounds more real now.

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6 hours ago, beboplar said:

This reminds me of when I was going to Berkeley in the early '70's.  The team had both Steve Bartkowski and Vince Ferragamo at QB.  Which begged the question, "How many QBs can the team play at once?"

The Canes are so loaded at D that the rumored trade of Fleury to Edmonton sounds more real now.

Moving Fleury alone doesn't solve our cap issue. We're $2 million over and he's only making $850k.

 

I have to think we're moving a pair, likely to include Faulk (I hope we're not dumb enough to move Pesce.) If Fleury goes with him we clear $5.6 million of cap space, getting us back under by about $3.6m. A nice pad for a helper, if needed, at the trade deadline. Moving those two leaves us with six NHL D-men:

 

Slavin/Pesce

Hamilton/Gardiner

TVR/Forsling 

 

As listed, those pairings are balanced (L/R shots). And there'd be lots of competition for the seven slot, among McKeown, Priskie, Bean, and Wood.

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2 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Moving Fleury alone doesn't solve our cap issue. We're $2 million over and he's only making $850k.

 

I have to think we're moving a pair, likely to include Faulk (I hope we're not dumb enough to move Pesce.) If Fleury goes with him we clear $5.6 million of cap space, getting us back under by about $3.6m. A nice pad for a helper, if needed, at the trade deadline. Moving those two leaves us with six NHL D-men:

 

Slavin/Pesce

Hamilton/Gardiner

TVR/Forsling 

 

As listed, those pairings are balanced (L/R shots). And there'd be lots of competition for the seven slot, among McKeown, Priskie, Bean, and Wood.

Interesting you have Forsling  in the line up .  No indication  reports  have shown  he will crack the line up that i have seen . 

I do however see Faulk being moved out for some picks though.  

 

I see it more like this just in my opinion  till TVR  is back and ready skating with the Canes 

 

 

Slavin - Hamilton

Gardiner - Pesce 

Fleury  - Bean

 

Then later TVR  takes Beans  spot.   or  like  you suggested Forsling 

 

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3 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

I have to think we're moving a pair, likely to include Faulk (I hope we're not dumb enough to move Pesce.) If Fleury goes with him we clear $5.6 million of cap space, getting us back under by about $3.6m. A nice pad for a helper, if needed, at the trade deadline.

It is an interesting math problem though, no?

 

Any likely move will mean someone coming back.  I suspect the pad will be less than 3.6m, based on what comes back.

 

So it comes down to what does The Committee want for a trade like Faulk?  Or does he just get sacrificed for mostly prospects and draft picks?  And do we have to pick up some garbage in return?

 

I suspect The Committee wants big draft picks.  Not sure they'll get them.

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12 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

It is a good move. He looked worse because he was being forced into a top line role where he was asked to be the defender of the pair. 

 

4.025 million for a 2nd pair, UFA, puck moving defender is a steal (which is crazy to say). 

 

He will make some Faulk level mistakes

 

 

Jesus, Gardiner.

 

(just rehearsing...)

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I just watched a few youtube videos on Gardiner.   I have always liked this guy.   He is an excellent skater and has some pretty good moves and shots for a defenseman.    Babcock had nothing but good things to say about him and some of his teammates said that he is really good in the locker room.   He will do very well in Carolina away from the relentless hockey media that is Toronto.  

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He was leading all D men in the league in goals and points prior to getting injured last season. He can only help us. Agree with top that maybe it’s time to pull the trigger on Faulk. We get a good forward or high pick in return which adds to the value of the overall Gardiner deal. Dundon’s happy because he’ll sell more $200 sweaters. 

Edited by raleighcaniac
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CapFriendly projects us to have $1.5M in long term injury relief.  Who is that for?  Our cap hit is also based on 24 man roster.  Roster size limit is 23 so somebody has to get sent down.  Our lowest salaried player makes $650k so combining those moves, we may not have to make a trade to get under the cap.

 

PROJECTED LTIR USED Tooltip : $1,554,791

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Slavin / Hamilton

Gardiner / Pesce

Fluery / Faulk

 

That would have to be one of the best defenses in the league. Obviously, there are many possible combinations for that third pair based on additional trades and camp performance.  TVR and Faulk are both in the last year of their contracts.  I would expect sign or trade for both of them.  There is no reason to let them walk for nothing with the depth we have.  We really don't have any room at forward though.  Any potential trade might be for futures or Faulk and forward X for a better forward.

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A couple of thoughts about a future move. The way the team is lining things up, it just seems that Faulk is the obvious guy to move. We now have offensive generating guys on the D. Hamilton and Gardiner for sure, but Slavin is improving, and Bean and Priskie, arguably our best prospects both bring the O. For me at least, my new found like of Faulk comes from his smooth puck moving in the D and neutral zones, and his main weaknesses (IMO), D zone coverage and O zone puck moving, are trumped by Gardiner being a better O Zone and PP puck mover. Then there's the fact that Faulk is on the last year of his contract, and at least seems to be way higher than the team about his worth. 

 

As we add offensive minded d men (Gardiner for DeHaan essentially) and Bean and Priskie in the system, keeping our best defender in Pesce, now rings essential to me. IMO Slavin and Pesce are untouchable, with Hamilton close to that at least at the moment. At some point, we probably need to move some salary off the back end, and Faulk is the most obvious choice.

 

Possibly a bit contrarian in this, I'd be stoked right now to get another first rounder for Faulk, especially from a possibly bad team, and not freaking lottery protected. Faulk to Edmonton for their first. Yes please. Next year's draft is thought to be hugely deep. I think we scored huge this year, but you never know. The most consistent way to find high end talent is to draft it. Eventually Staal and Nino and others will move on. Always having great prospects is a part of what lets an organization win over years. Thinking of Faulk as a trade line rental, in past years GM's gave up first rounders more easily for rentals. Lately not so much. But a full year of Faulk, and maybe throw in a B prospect, might get us a first rounder. Unless we get back a 60 point or better forward, we don't really have room for another guy. 3 first rounders and 2 second rounders next year? Wow. 

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Then there's the cap issue. To which I definitively say "huh?". I don't know. Just read cclifford's post, and looking at Cap Friendly it does look like we might have just squeezed in within inches, if we can use the LTIR and it is not factored in. However, even if it is, Cap Friendly has Bishop and Gibbons, as well as both Fleury and Forsling on the roster. So take just Gibbons and Bishop off the roster and that's about $1.6 million and it looks like we're under. '

 

Capologists, please correct me if I'm wrong, but it does look like we can squeeze in and not trade anyone. 

 

To which I have to agree with cclifford's most recent post here. That is an insanely good defense. The only bad thing about it is that our prospects remain bottled up. Priskie has to be thinking, "what the...", "really?". 

 

My last question is to the waiver wire-ologists and the expansion draft-logists. How do those play into the huge log of D men backing up if we don't make a trade?

 

We have insane D depth. We STILL have never really flipped D for O yet. Maybe we never do, but our powder is very dry for that. 

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We are going to ice a fast, capable D, and even if Gardiner struggles a little defensively, he will probably QB the PP. If there are no trades our D,  (just like our forward group) is a just sick mix of skill and depth. But on D that depth goes way beyond the 6 guys that suit up. Assuming that TVR is good to go, there are no trades or injuries to come, some mix of these six hit the ice. 

 

Slavin-Hamilton

Gardiner-Pesce

Faulk-TVR 

 

Very nice. But the backlog behind them of likely NHL ready or very nearly ready:

 

Fleury

Forsling

McKeown

Bean

Priskie

 

(Sellgren)(...to soon, but looked pretty good). 

 

If one includes Sellgren we literally have an entire D in the wings. Some have to clear waivers. Just seems a trade or two still might be in the works...

 

 

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15 minutes ago, cclifford10 said:

CapFriendly projects us to have $1.5M in long term injury relief.  Who is that for?  Our cap hit is also based on 24 man roster.  Roster size limit is 23 so somebody has to get sent down.  Our lowest salaried player makes $650k so combining those moves, we may not have to make a trade to get under the cap.

 

PROJECTED LTIR USED Tooltip : $1,554,791

 

TVR for the LTIR? Brian Gibbons is listed as one of the 24 on the roster and he's sure to be a Checker.  Regardless of cap issues, I still see moves coming.  Slavin, Pesce, Hamilton, Faulk, Gardiner, TVR, Fleury, Forsling, and McKeown are all subject to being claimed off of waivers.  And then Bean and Priskie, while waiver exempt, might push for a Canes roster spot (probably more Bean than Priskie this season).  The Committee needs  to do some tidying up in our D corps.

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Wow, so pumped for the season.  We are actually spending money trying to make a PP unit that can score.  Imagine that, the Canes with a top PP this season??. 

TD and DW are going for it, after a taste last year they sense how close we are and want more.   Exactly what we needed this summer, a couple new faces who can score 20something goals in the top 9 and a big veteran D guy to add to our stacked Defense.   All  guys with proven track records on the PP.  Lets do this.

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When the $1,554,791 was mentioned Lake, that's who came to my mind, but even at that, and we are compliant on Day 1 of the season, he has to come off some time, so how is that adjudicated when we would then slide over? So, a trade has to be made.

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1 hour ago, raleighcaniac said:

He was leading all D men in the league in goals and points prior to getting injured last season. He can only help us. Agree with top that maybe it’s time to pull the trigger on Faulk. We get a good forward or high pick in return which adds to the value of the overall Gardiner deal. Dundon’s happy because he’ll sell more $200 sweaters. 

Was he playing in 1st PP unit with Marner and Matthews? He might be good in PP and offensive zone but I would not bet that he will again lead all defensemen in points/goals

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45 minutes ago, Danimal38 said:

Wow, so pumped for the season.  We are actually spending money trying to make a PP unit that can score.  Imagine that, the Canes with a top PP this season??. 

TD and DW are going for it, after a taste last year they sense how close we are and want more.   Exactly what we needed this summer, a couple new faces who can score 20something goals in the top 9 and a big veteran D guy to add to our stacked Defense.   All  guys with proven track records on the PP.  Lets do this.

Personally I think this is a brilliant business move. From the bottom things ramped up last year all through the playoffs. But we had playoffs after a Cup in 08-09 including a run very similar to this last one. But then the team fell back and then way back, and attendance dropped. It's the same situation now. The run to the playoffs and ECF opened the door to sustained attendance and brand building for the long run. But a fall back or signs that the owner is trying go el cheapo and especially both, would have led to an immediate shutting of that door. 

 

What TD is doing is the ultimate selling to the fans that things are different, and will be, and they can come in because the water is great. He is barging through that door that last year opened.

 

IMO things will now keep building. Attendance, STH, corporate, and just plain community interest. And then there's playoff revenue. 

 

All of the pundits say  "of course Carolina cannot be a cap team". Really? Why not? First, the cap is an artificial reign on the top teams. Sure, if it were a totally free market we could not  compete, but that would be because instead of an $83 million cap, Toronto and the Rangers would spend $130 million. That would freeze out the smaller markets, but that's not what we have. Further, although there can be debates about yearly cash flow and profits, franchise values pretty much always go up, usually way up. So TD looses a few million each year for 20 years, but 20 year later the franchise is sold for $500 million more than he bought it for. And probably he's not really losing, especially if the house is full and we see a lot of playoffs due to what we're building.

 

And that also includes my point about going ahead and trading some D assets for draft picks. Looking 5 years down the line things still look good.

 

After a decade of pain, it finally feels like the clouds are parting and the sun is going to shine for a good while. 

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You need an advanced degree to understand the cap.

 

In past years, it seemed like the Big Teams always were slightly over the cap, and then they weren't.  Magic.  Looks like Dundon hired those magicians.

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I do not see Faulk alone as bringing back a first round pick. Also, I would bet Edmonton is not on his trade list. If he is getting moved, without a sweetener, I see a return like Skinner. Maybe a second with a conditional additional pick if he re-signs. Does anyone think Priskie would have signed here had we already signed Gardiner? Right now, we have 3, maybe 4 D prospects who are arguably NHL ready, who would be shut out if none of the top 6 is moved, or at best would fight it out for the #7 spot. It’s a great problem to have, but we could lose some of our D prospects for nothing on waivers. I think Forsling, Fleury and McKeown would all have to clear to go to Charlotte. Maybe at the end of camp, the plan is to thin the number of non-waiver exempt prospects by trading a couple. But Fleury, as an example, was a #7 overall pick we’ve invested 5 years in developing. Realistically, what return could we get for him? I’m sure DW and company have a plan. I just can’t figure out what it is.

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5 hours ago, Canesfanforever said:

Interesting you have Forsling  in the line up .  No indication  reports  have shown  he will crack the line up that i have seen . 

I do however see Faulk being moved out for some picks though.  

 

I see it more like this just in my opinion  till TVR  is back and ready skating with the Canes 

 

 

Slavin - Hamilton

Gardiner - Pesce 

Fleury  - Bean

 

Then later TVR  takes Beans  spot.   or  like  you suggested Forsling 

 

I actully see McKeown getting in before Bean, who only has one year in the A. McKeown has three and has earned his shot. I like Fleury a bunch, but Roddy (apparently) doesn't, which is why I see him being dealt. Put him with Faulk and the trading partner immediately has a pairing.

 

Time will tell, and like you, I'm not too concerned. Most important is we'll have two solid top pairings and the NHL experience, among those four and TVR, to bring Forsling, McKeown, Bean, and/or Priskie up to NHL speed.

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