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Trades, Player moves and Free Agency

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Just now, realmdrakkar said:

 

 

Forsberg couldn't even crack the Hawks' lineup last season - his most-recent NHL action was in 17-18.  #4 on a depth chart that featured Ward at #2.  Ack.

Im being patient on this one before I sound off much more.  Hopefully when this plays out it will have been part of a larger strategy. I know Chicago is getting serious this year now that hated STL has the cup.  I know cap space and some strategy is at work on the Carolina side.

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1 hour ago, lazyestimator said:

Chicago trade for Forsberg.  Are we going back to the scrap heap for goalies again?

I love it when the positive vibes begin to flow

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Picked up a few mil from this trade, hopefully going to be used for something special. Perhaps the goalie trade is insurance as one report states Mrazek Mac resigning becoming problematic. Just a talking head....let's  see how this unfolds.

 

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"Good" message for possible UFAs: once you get injured we ship you somewhere else. I know just business, nothing personal, but I also do not think there is a line of UFAs/there agents waiting outside of DW office.

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Maybe Forsberg is Ned's replacement in Charlotte... if Ned goes to Raleigh and Tokarski goes back home, the Chex will need some help in net.

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6 minutes ago, realmdrakkar said:

Maybe Forsberg is Ned's replacement in Charlotte... if Ned goes to Raleigh and Tokarski goes back home, the Chex will need some help in net.

I was thinking the same thing but we didn’t have to trade deHaan to get him. I’ve seen it said that our D payroll was heavy, so maybe the braintrust decided he was not worth $4.5/year. Might they use some of that to extend Faulk? If we are getting significant offensive help via trade, one of our top 3 RHD has got to be moving. Also, money freed up to get Aho’s deal done and maybe an offensive UFA. I doubted our management all last offseason (heck, and 1/2 the regular season) and look how that turned out. I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt and waiting to see what shakes out overall. We do have guys like Carrick, McKeown, Fleury, Bean and Lillegren (sp) to plug in for deHaan. I don’t think Forsling will be playing in Raleigh. Also, we need a goalie under contract to buy out Darling. Maybe Ned is going to take some time to get signed but they thing Forsberg can be signed right away. Something that doesn’t meet the eye just now has to be behind this trade. I hope it’s something good.

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This trade is horrible.  All this talk about cap space is laughable.  Canes need to worry about getting to the cap floor. 

 

On the surface, this was a pure salary dump.  Hopefully they use the money on some offense.  

 

I like the move move if it means Fleury will be one of the bottom pairings next year.  He needs playing time.

 

or maybe they need the money to extend Faulk?

 

 

 

 

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I really am confused about  trading de Haan and Saarela.   Does Chicago have some dirt on the Canes staff?   de Haan was a pretty solid  defender and Saarela's upside is very positive.  He had 15 points in 17 games in helping Charlotte win the Calder Cup.  I guess I don't understand the business of hockey. 

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DeHaan is a very good D man who also brought some physical. It was mentioned how much we missed him when he was injured. I get that he's out until December, but if this is the return we're looking for in our D for O move why did we wait this long? Oh, and there was no O. Oh wait all of the O went to Chicago.

 

If we're clearing space out.....the only follow up move for us would be Panarin and Bob, since we have soooo much space.

 

If we're really planning to pay someone out there (not Aho) big bucks, who?

 

I remain a bit baffled by this one. Just has to be a part B to this.

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I’m having a hard time understanding why everyone is confused. As long as Slavin, Pesce, Hamilton, and Faulk are here, CDH was going to be a bottom pairing guy. You DO NOT pay a bottom pairing guy 4.55 million a year unless you did something wrong.

 

You guys do realize that he was making more than Pesce and not too far off of Slavin, Hamilton, and Faulk.

 

IMO his was the third worst contract on the team behind Marleau and ahwsnbn, and those will be dealt with shortly.

 

Fleury or Bean can take his place, that 4.55 million should be going elsewhere.

 

.

 

 

Edited by Kyrule
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For what they're worth (and I really don't know the answer to that), scouting reports from The Hockey News:

 

Scouting Report: Forsberg
Owns a very projectable (6-3) frame and the ability to be a spectacular netminder when on his game. Likes to challenge shooters and can excel with the butterfly style. Is quite raw and still needs some work on his overall technique. Also, he must fill out his frame more in order to maximize his puck-stopping skills at the highest level.
Long Range Potential:  Talented goaltender with some upside.
 
Scouting Report: Forsling
A 'new-breed' type of undersized defenseman who excels in puck possession and puck movement, he can produce points too. Does not panic with the puck on his stick. Needs to prove he can play at a high level against tougher competition, and he will need to add more bulk in order to accomplish that--especially if he is to be a physical player.
Long Range Potential:  Quality, puck-moving defenseman with upside.
 

.

Edited by LakeLivin

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Maybe this trade was phase I of an inception scheme to collect all the NHL Swedes with names starting with "Fors".  Phase II lands us Filip Forsberg.  :P

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1 hour ago, Kyrule said:

It’s simple asset management.

I'm not really sure how you deduce this Kyrule, as to me there's nothing about this trade that's "simple"?

 

And Lake, thanks for the "scouting reports", but my mind wonders about when those were generated, lately or when those 2 broke into the pro game?

 

Back to the "asset management" issue, To me, a non-economics person, I'd hope that the term would refer to keeping the same value in a transaction, or possibly increasing a value? If we can agree on that, I can't see how this trade did that, as we traded away a well liked, thoroughly seasoned albeit injured Dman and a very upward trending, young forward, for perhaps Darling-like Chicago goalie and an unknown commodity, slight Dman? Now, if the reasoning is that the goalie has untapped potential like his predecessor from the same team, than the elephant in that room (or perhaps 2) is, who do we have to train him AT PRESENT? Also, we have to resign him? This living on a wing and a prayer of signing that 1 unsigned Dman in college that Washington is apparently dangling in front of us (the one supposedly tied to a Faulk trade to them), the curious trade for Marleau who is supposed to reunite with San Jose, and now this unsigned goalie is beyond strange?  Hopefully this trade precedes some building much larger transaction, but I for one see it as anything as "simple".

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24 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

Maybe this trade was phase I of an inception scheme to collect all the NHL Swedes with names starting with "Fors".  Phase II lands us Filip Forsberg.  :P

 

 

Phase III is John Forslund....

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1 hour ago, Kyrule said:

I’m having a hard time understanding why everyone is confused. As long as Slavin, Pesce, Hamilton, and Faulk are here, CDH was going to be a bottom pairing guy. You DO NOT pay a bottom pairing guy 4.55 million a year unless you did something wrong.

 

You guys do realize that he was making more than Pesce and not too far off of Slavin, Hamilton, and Faulk.

 

IMO his was the third worst contract on the team behind Marleau and ahwsnbn, and those will be dealt with shortly.

 

Fleury or Bean can take his place, that 4.55 million should be going elsewhere.

 

It’s simple asset management.

 

Your point makes sense, I'm just thinking that people are surprised that de Haan didn't return more than he did.  I could see Sareela being viewed as having little chance of making the Canes given his style of play, but have no idea how other teams might value him.

 

Forsling is only 23 yo, and his stats indicate a lot more offensive upside than de Haan, TVR and Fleury. Who knows what the story on Forsberg is.  Maybe our scouts see some things we can't grasp from just the stats?

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Kjun, I took out the term “asset management” so you can focus on the other 95% of my post, the part that actually makes my point.

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1 hour ago, Kyrule said:

Kjun, I took out the term “asset management” so you can focus on the other 95% of my post, the part that actually makes my point.

Point made Kyrule, but that was the bottom line, thus appeared to sum it up? But as you say the other 95% makes sense, IF there's a bigger picture, or "the rest of the story" as Paul Harvey use to say. As you point out, he was a 3rd pairing Dman IN OUR SYSTEM , paid rather handsomely for it (as you state $4.55mil), and in your opinion 3rd worst contract. I can't and won't argue with your conclusion there, only to (somewhat facetiously I might add) point out that his contract was not of his doing. I do admit, I hate it when people use that reasoning.

 

However, I suppose the underlying 95% of what I was attempting to express was I think that Calvin DeHaan's value was perhaps hidden in that by all accounts he was a "glue guy". How do you factor that into his worth? It doesn't show up in statistics, including goals for or against, but if true than $4.55mil might be a bargain, particularly to a small market team that needs an X factor that team unity might interject? Now if the shoulder issue could become chronic, than yes, time to unload. 

 

And, speaking of team unity, my additional concern is the image this move projects to any free agent we attempt to attract? How often in these blogs do we lament not being able to attract premier free agents? Several of you I know dismiss the importance I romanticize about again in a smaller market team for team bonding and family like atmosphere, reasoning that if the Cup is attainable, than that's all that's needed to attract these top level players. You having this thought are probably right, but I am convinced that much of the success of the 05-06 team was because of their closeness and many say so. But CDH it appears chose us, and that should mean something. And whereas we are constantly reminded "it's business", I hope that the bottom line considers factors that perhaps don't always show up on stat sheets.

 

The one final conundrum I have is WHY? Unless I'm mistaken, Forsberg is an RFA and not sure about Forsling, but are the Canes better after it or not? If it's only about the bottom line than I have much concern.

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I look at the de Haan  signing last year and wonder if he was worth that money   and  yes you could make the claim that he was worth the 4.55 mill  for 3 years  because of his defensive acumen .  But i look at who the canes already have  and think Gee   we have  guys who could come in and do his job for half that price right now .  

 

The Canes are not a big time money spender unless it's for someone worth it . and   taking into account  how much  Calvin helped  last year  it's going to suck to see him go  but the canes can always do better . Now the question is  Who are the canes trying to sign , who are the players on the roster are they giving a bone to ? 

 

I hope in the end  this turns out to be  the ultimate plan  because I'd Really hate to see this  come back to haunt the Canes .  The 2  RFA's   one being a goalie  for ned possibly   and the other   is time for one of our guys  to get  some ice time .   Now it's a matter of who ?  Jake Bean maybe ? 

Edited by Canesfanforever

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I would miss my hopes about Saarela finally making the team more than de Haan... But his absence might be felt at some point next year.


To tell the truth, I was hoping that we'd be a team with more Finns than any other NHL club so that they can decide to bring Canes to Finland as part of Global Series for me to go there.😃


But all dreaming aside, now it does open some space for Checkers D-men in case this Forsling is not a guaranteed CDH replacement.
Maybe Canes staff believe in this kid more than we do?


Never really liked Forsberg. But I do like it that it somehow draws Ned closer to Raleigh. At least in my mind...

Edited by RyazanCaniac

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2 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

Point made Kyrule, but that was the bottom line, thus appeared to sum it up? But as you say the other 95% makes sense, IF there's a bigger picture, or "the rest of the story" as Paul Harvey use to say. As you point out, he was a 3rd pairing Dman IN OUR SYSTEM , paid rather handsomely for it (as you state $4.55mil), and in your opinion 3rd worst contract. I can't and won't argue with your conclusion there, only to (somewhat facetiously I might add) point out that his contract was not of his doing. I do admit, I hate it when people use that reasoning.

 

However, I suppose the underlying 95% of what I was attempting to express was I think that Calvin DeHaan's value was perhaps hidden in that by all accounts he was a "glue guy". How do you factor that into his worth? It doesn't show up in statistics, including goals for or against, but if true than $4.55mil might be a bargain, particularly to a small market team that needs an X factor that team unity might interject? Now if the shoulder issue could become chronic, than yes, time to unload. 

 

And, speaking of team unity, my additional concern is the image this move projects to any free agent we attempt to attract? How often in these blogs do we lament not being able to attract premier free agents? Several of you I know dismiss the importance I romanticize about again in a smaller market team for team bonding and family like atmosphere, reasoning that if the Cup is attainable, than that's all that's needed to attract these top level players. You having this thought are probably right, but I am convinced that much of the success of the 05-06 team was because of their closeness and many say so. But CDH it appears chose us, and that should mean something. And whereas we are constantly reminded "it's business", I hope that the bottom line considers factors that perhaps don't always show up on stat sheets.

 

The one final conundrum I have is WHY? Unless I'm mistaken, Forsberg is an RFA and not sure about Forsling, but are the Canes better after it or not? If it's only about the bottom line than I have much concern.

 

Well thought out and expressed post.

 

There are some concerns as you noted, but unfortunately I think it was just a business decision. I do agree with your concerns though, and the “he chose us” part bothers me the most. Being the good guys, the small-market underdogs, and the family atmosphere feeling that surrounds the Canes is part of the charm of being a Canes fan. Having said that TD is clearly a business man and he will likely run this team as a business. How much of this is a good thing, how much could be detrimental? I don’t know.

 

I do believe there is a bigger picture though, and I guess we will see how things unfold.

 

One other thing to consider is, was CDH ok with how things went? I had no idea Pesce was unhappy with his playing time until after the season. When his time went back up, I imagine it was CDH’s time that suffered. Maybe he was wondering why the Canes were paying him all of that money to play limited minutes on the bottom pair in his prime years. That would just be speculation on my part, and if he was unhappy he gave no indication of it that I saw/heard.

 

I do think he will be a good fit in Chicago, and I think he’ll have a larger role on the team. I wish him all the best.

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10 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

I sure hope we are clearing cap space because these guys apparently aren’t even signed. And the goalie looks 3 steps below Ned.

Maybe the goalie move is to clear the way for Darling's return to the Big Windy?

 

I have to say, I'm not surprised we moved Saarela. Not to fire up the whole big vs. skilled debate again (because I think our priority has shifted to wanting both), but this further fuels my belief that Roddy is done with puny forwards who can't throw their weight around. 

 

I hope DeHaan's slot goes to McKeown. He's earned it. 

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