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Trades, Player moves and Free Agency

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1 hour ago, beboplar said:

Forsberg's status on the team is somewhat of an after thought.  They will figure it out.  Dzingel's presence, along with Haula's due to Vegas's own cap issues, hopefully will outweigh any of the player compensation inequity you observe the de Haan trade to have been.

I do think that getting Dzingle as a UFA balances out losing some return value on DeHaan. I also think that with our depth in drafting, we can afford a couple of trades that we lose. We also have a huge win trade in Nino for Rask. I'm not deeply disturbed by this move, just as I  look at each move and grade them, this one is harder to love based on the return. 

 

But really, I'm not sure that Forsberg might not still be worth rolling the dice on. Chicago rolled him our there enough that they must have seen something and he did have a good AHL career. The more quality options in goal the better. 

 

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35 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

I do know we carry what $3.8mil or so from him, but could that change?

 

The buyout is ours no matter what happens next

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No need to get bent out of shape on the deHaan return. He is damaged goods at the moment because of the injury/surgery.  You don't get top dollar when you sell a car with a bad transmission.

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Forslund on the David Glenn show with MM interviewing him thought that Forsburg will probably get dealt sooner than later probably before the season starts.

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I always thought the deHahn trade was mostly about clearing cap space. I thought we would either waive Reimer and let Forsberg and Ned fight it out for backup goalie, or more likely, waive Forsberg and let Ned compete with Reimer. It looks like they do want to give all 3 guys a chance, unless Forslund’s prediction comes true. If Forsberg goes through camp, doesn’t win the backup job, is waived and claimed by someone else, I wouldn’t see that as a big loss, except maybe in Charlotte where we need an experienced goalie. And if Reimer sticks in Raleigh, Ned would be that guy. Longer term than this year, I think (hope) Ned is the guy who will stick here, at least as a backup.

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To be completely fair to Forslund he did mention the three way competition for the backup spot you mention bluedevil, that was what the team was planning.  He also mentioned that Ned was AHL goalie of the year and won the Calder, and at one point the fact that so many players that go all the way to arbitration end up being traded, so the idea that Forsberg could end up being traded was a prediction of a probable outcome of that competition.

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Hmmmmm.   

“Kurt Leavins took note of a recent report out of Finland citing comments by the manager of Finland’s Karpat Oulu regarding Jesse Puljujarvi, who has requested a trade from the Oilers. Harri Aho called Puljujarvi “a really interesting player”, adding his club is following the winger’s situation. 

Leavins points out Aho is the father of Carolina Hurricanes center Sebastian Aho. He also observed the Hurricanes are among several clubs said to be interested in the 21-year-old winger.

Leavins adds Karpat Oulu hasn’t made a contract offer to Puljujarvi. He speculates this could be a final bluff by the winger’s camp to force the Oilers to trade him.”

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52 minutes ago, cc said:

Hmmmmm.   

“Kurt Leavins took note of a recent report out of Finland citing comments by the manager of Finland’s Karpat Oulu regarding Jesse Puljujarvi, who has requested a trade from the Oilers. Harri Aho called Puljujarvi “a really interesting player”, adding his club is following the winger’s situation. 

Leavins points out Aho is the father of Carolina Hurricanes center Sebastian Aho. He also observed the Hurricanes are among several clubs said to be interested in the 21-year-old winger.

Leavins adds Karpat Oulu hasn’t made a contract offer to Puljujarvi. He speculates this could be a final bluff by the winger’s camp to force the Oilers to trade him.”

cc that is interesting, and I have long thought that with Pulji's experience with Aho, that could right the ship so to speak for him, but many have doubted this. Right now, I am unsure with our Cap so close, how we would even manage and/or who we'd need to trade? However if Harri Aho (a coach I believe) finds him interesting, that might be a significant endorsement, depending on the meaning of "interesting", ie good or bad interesting?

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6 hours ago, cc said:

Hmmmmm.   

“Kurt Leavins took note of a recent report out of Finland citing comments by the manager of Finland’s Karpat Oulu regarding Jesse Puljujarvi, who has requested a trade from the Oilers. Harri Aho called Puljujarvi “a really interesting player”, adding his club is following the winger’s situation. 

Leavins points out Aho is the father of Carolina Hurricanes center Sebastian Aho. He also observed the Hurricanes are among several clubs said to be interested in the 21-year-old winger.

Leavins adds Karpat Oulu hasn’t made a contract offer to Puljujarvi. He speculates this could be a final bluff by the winger’s camp to force the Oilers to trade him.”

I'm always fascinated at the idea of buying a guy low and then turning him around. Is Puljujarvi a guy that could happen with? What would it actually cost to get him? A couple of interesting takes in the links below suggest he could be. The supposed asking price is a third line forward. He is an RFA still without a contract too. 

 

I read a piece before last season that argued that he was actually a decent player based on some advanced stats. Then last year he tanked. BUT he was injured and had to play under Ken Hitchcock and alot with Milan Lucic and with 65% defensive starts, and said tanking should lower the asking price a lot.

 

The first article talks about how the Oilers blew the player development of this player, and of how he looks to be playing scared and with no confidence. That he does not look anything like the player he was in juniors. Part of the blame was his lack of good English skills, and the Oilers not having a support system for him, as well as blowing his confidence in other ways. I can't help but think of how well Brind'Amour does with player confidence, and having Aho and TT here can't hurt. 

 

But who goes? We have to trade someone for him. Would they take TVR? Apparently they want a third line forward. McGinn? Do we want to trade an effective physical force for a project? I love the idea of taking a shot at redemption for him, but someone would have to go. Who? The guy I'd move is Wallmark, but he's a center (which we still need), and not sure he'd be enough. We'd literally need to move a guy out of the lineup to fit him in.

 

Then we have Necas and possibly Gauthier and soon Geekie knocking at the door. 

 

In the end, I think it would just turn out to be too disruptive because our team is set and that doesn't even include a guy like Necas making it. But I'm not totally opposed to it either. It's hard to see where he fits in, or who we move out. But with his upside talent, if he could make it project to the NHL with some added confidence? There might be more there than meets the eye after years in Edmonton's murky swamp. If he could mesh with either TT or Aho, he could bring a level of firepower beyond anything we'd likely have for our #9 slot. 

 

As with just about any change to our lineup, it really comes down to Justin Williams, and health. If JWilliams returns and we stay healthy, it's hard to see it IMO. If J Williams retires and we have injuries early? It might be worth looking at. It seems like a long shot, but it is an intriguing idea. 

 

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/jesse-puljujarvi-is-the-next-nail-yakupov-or-next-dylan-strome-i-vote-strome

 

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dallas-stars/stars/2019/06/20/jesse-puljujarvi-edmonton-oilers-dallas-stars-draft-free-agency

 

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That's my dilemma rem, I'd love to get him in the friendly Finnish confines of PNC arena with several of his countrymen to ease him on the team, but just cannot see how to fit him in?

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13 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

That's my dilemma rem, I'd love to get him in the friendly Finnish confines of PNC arena with several of his countrymen to ease him on the team, but just cannot see how to fit him in?

This club is loaded with wingers and needs cap space, so Nino would be at the top of my list to move for Puljujarvi. He was the right acquisition at the the right time, but Edmonton's roster, UFA wise, is a disaster area, with (count 'em) SEVEN guys going UFA after this year. Nino is under contract through 21-22. If they move Gagner, the Oil would create enough space to pay Nino.

 

All of that being said, I don't know if we need the distraction of the Puljujarvi Project--but Aho and TT's presence would surely help him settle in, I'd think.

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11 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

This club is loaded with wingers and needs cap space, so Nino would be at the top of my list to move for Puljujarvi. He was the right acquisition at the the right time, but Edmonton's roster, UFA wise, is a disaster area, with (count 'em) SEVEN guys going UFA after this year. Nino is under contract through 21-22. If they move Gagner, the Oil would create enough space to pay Nino.

 

All of that being said, I don't know if we need the distraction of the Puljujarvi Project--but Aho and TT's presence would surely help him settle in, I'd think.

I surely would hate to give up El Nino for a "project", but Nino seemed to tail off at the end of the year. Thus the question to me is, Was the initial spike in his play like adrenalin rush with getting away from a bad situation (Minnesota), or was it sustainable? Of course in Puljujarvi's case, we do SEEM to have some insight into the player from Aho's father, but has what he's seem translatable to the NHL? So ironic that we don't have the Cap space to give Pulj a whirl? But then we don't seem to have the lineup space either? Does the mean"We like our team"? Seems there's still a pivotal piece missing-- Williams? Come on guy, commit?

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It's hard to imagine that Puljujarvi could be had for Wallmark, but if that's true, jump all over it!  If Williams doesn't come back, it's not hard to fit him in the lineup.

 

Svech / Aho / TT 

Nino / Staal /Puljujarvi

Dzingel / Haula / Necas

Foegele / Martinook / McGinn 

Maenalanen

 

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Getting a guy that  only scored 4  goals .   I dont care how bad the  oilers were last year ,  if you only managed to score 4 goals  that is a total  joke ! im on team  #HELLNO !

 

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Puljujarvi put up 12 goals in 65 games as a 19-20 year old in his first NHL season on a bad team on a bad line. His AHL numbers were better overall than Gauthier, for instance. But mainly, this guy was a dominant beast with skill in Junior hockey including the world juniors. The one article I linked sums it up: Is he the next Nail Yakupov or the next Dylan Strome? Both articles land on the side of Dylan Strome being more likely. If Puljujarvi is a late bloomer who was hurt by being part of the Edmonton swamp, and can find an NHL game befitting his talent projection, he'd be a star player. But even if not, so long as he doesn't go full Yakupov, he could still be an effective player at the right price.

 

I'm not saying we do it, but it is an interesting consideration in these hockey discussion dog days.

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1 hour ago, remkin said:

Puljujarvi put up 12 goals in 65 games as a 19-20 year old in his first NHL season on a bad team on a bad line. His AHL numbers were better overall than Gauthier, for instance. But mainly, this guy was a dominant beast with skill in Junior hockey including the world juniors. The one article I linked sums it up: Is he the next Nail Yakupov or the next Dylan Strome? Both articles land on the side of Dylan Strome being more likely. If Puljujarvi is a late bloomer who was hurt by being part of the Edmonton swamp, and can find an NHL game befitting his talent projection, he'd be a star player. But even if not, so long as he doesn't go full Yakupov, he could still be an effective player at the right price.

 

I'm not saying we do it, but it is an interesting consideration in these hockey discussion dog days.

The oilers for years  have pretty much said  to themselves ( Mainly because of Dino )  lets skip the development  and see how things pan out ! 

I guess they figure high end talent  and skill would equate to top end talent for the nhl  .  So they rush the development  in hopes of being right .  That  has been and continues to be  

the teams  downfall .      Puljujarvi Is another Example of just that  and  The Canes  should not be thinking  , "  well gee  Golly  he  did good  when he was  a youth  , maybe it will work here "   The kid is still in my opinion not Fully Developed for the NHL  ,  ESPECIALLY  after the fact   that he wants to be traded !!!  What kind of Ego  like that is good for a new team when he would come walking in ?  Don't like the new team ?   Demand another trade !   How about no to all of that head case  mess !!!  Such a shame too . 

Edited by Canesfanforever

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My thoughts too rem. IMHO, in the years since we battled with them for the Stanley Cup in 05-06, the Edmonton Oilers are an amazing example of team wide ineptitude which has been made more glaring thru the ensuing years since then by their amazing string of #1 picks which have paralleled their ineptness? Now I'm certainly not sure of Puljujarvi's ability to transition from European to Ahl ranks, then NHL, and he may be a complete bust not unlike our own Boychuk/Murphy, but I surely would not give up on him until he got out of that dismal situation, particularly with the endorsement that Aho's Dad seems to be giving him?

 

Had to add after your post Cff that your reasoning seems to validate the reason to take a chance on him. Hopefully you'd also defer your opinion to Harri Aho, but IDK? But a question, Would you persist playing for a team which shows no clue as far as improving after what, 4-5years of the same ineptness? Sorry, but as loyal as I tend to be, enough is enough?

Edited by KJUNKANE

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14 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

My thoughts too rem. IMHO, in the years since we battled with them for the Stanley Cup in 05-06, the Edmonton Oilers are an amazing example of team wide ineptitude which has been made more glaring thru the ensuing years since then by their amazing string of #1 picks which have paralleled their ineptness? Now I'm certainly not sure of Puljujarvi's ability to transition from European to Ahl ranks, then NHL, and he may be a complete bust not unlike our own Boychuk/Murphy, but I surely would not give up on him until he got out of that dismal situation, particularly with the endorsement that Aho's Dad seems to be giving him?

 

Had to add after your post Cff that your reasoning seems to validate the reason to take a chance on him. Hopefully you'd also defer your opinion to Harri Aho, but IDK? But a question, Would you persist playing for a team which shows no clue as far as improving after what, 4-5years of the same ineptness? Sorry, but as loyal as I tend to be, enough is enough?

A player does not make demands  , it's the team in the end that makes demands .  If this kid  Was scoring like mcdavid carrying the team on his back and was an aged veteran  then i see an argument there .  but in this case he is not , has not , and never will be  that  guy imo .  

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18 minutes ago, Canesfanforever said:

A player does not make demands  , it's the team in the end that makes demands .  If this kid  Was scoring like mcdavid carrying the team on his back and was an aged veteran  then i see an argument there .  but in this case he is not , has not , and never will be  that  guy imo .  

What world do you live in Cff? Just what do you think Aho just did if not just force the team to sign him to a 5 year deal? I don't like these youth making their demands before they've even grown chin hair either, but that's all changing? Another example, what did Fox just do to this team? And is he a McDavid? It's happening in various ways all over as the youth are evolving.Wake up.

Edited by KJUNKANE
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I'm actually mixed about it TBH. I love the notion of picking up a highly skilled guy that we can get cheap and "fix". I also think that the Oilers of the past are well documented as being pretty bad at developing. Look at RNH. That guy was a #1 pick who underperformed for years, then last year, all of the sudden: BAM. This is the team that gave up on Taylor Hall for crying out loud.

 

I also don't have a big beef with him wanting out at this point, His career is on fumes. He's an RFA. His confidence is shot. He needs a change of scenery like nobody's business.

 

I just think we have such a nice system and such a good thing going, and I don't think we can just send him to Charlotte, so who goes? I get the concerns about Nino, but I'm not ready to bail on that guy. If J Willy comes back, there just isn't necessarily room for a project. I think Foegele is going to start producing significantly, and after moving out Ferland and DeHaan, I'm not thrilled to move any of our physical guys. This is why I get back to Wallmark because he's not physical. Maybe we could package him with a pick or prospect, but I doubt it. And even Wallmark has only had one full NHL season and could surprise this year. And I think Necas is ready and what does it tell him to bring in a guy who's AHL numbers he beat soundly?

 

I like the idea of Puljujarvi given the upside, and I don't care about him wanting out, I just don't see us doing it, unless J Williams retires.

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2 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

What world do you live in Cff? Just what do you think Aho just did if not just force the team to sign him to a 5 year deal? I don't like these youth making their demands before they've even grown chin hair either, but that's all changing? Another example, what did Fox just do to this team? And is he a McDavid? It's happening in various ways all over as the youth are evolving.Wake up.

Aho Carried the team on his BACK !   He is obviously the best player the canes have .  What else did people expect ?  " Well gee Aho , if you feel this strongly about  playing for montreal   we wish you on your future en devours "    Heck no !     and if you look at the contract itself  it's a sweet heart of a deal come year 3  , 4 and 5  !  just the first 2 years  are a stinger .  

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10 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

What world do you live in Cff?

I don't know, but apparently the written word, wherever it happens to be, is a hybrid of hieroglyphics and Sanskrit. 

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Also I want to  add   .    Adam Fox  Would have been a Steal for the Canes if he had signed with the team  but  due to his ego  the Canes traded Adam Fox and got back  draft picks .   The canes then went and turned one of those draft picks into 2  which  could be said  another STEAL  for the Canes .   And given the chances  that Adam Fox plays more than 30 games this year   that other Draft pick will become a 2nd round pick for next year.   Don Waddell has been hitting  it out of the park  when it comes to the draft   and it's only his 2 year as the Canes gm .   Life gave him lemons and he turned it into lemonade .  

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14 hours ago, Canesfanforever said:

A player does not make demands

Canesfanforever, this was your original point. Wading through all your secondary gibberish, I attempted to make the counterpoint to that statement, and that one statement alone, despite all the other rambling that you do about certain entitled players.  I guess to be excused from that stipulation of "not making demands" results from a player's value, or of what his demands bring to the team? I further stated that in fact, Aho made a demand on this team to sign for 5 years (vs what Waddell would have preferred for 8 years) OR he would take Montreal's offer. Fox DEMANDED a trade to New York or we would lose him for nothing as he wouldn't sign here but play on beyond our rights to him. And these are just 2 such demands of recent memory. You somehow demean Pulj's right to such a reaction after years of frustrating effort, while conversely  punctuating that by pointing out how that system in Edmonton likely rushed him and was responsible for ineptness at this stage of his career. Yet you would appear it seems, to demand he put his entire career and any aspirations he still has for it aside, by being the respectful, servile menion. Finally you seem to afford Fox whom I remind you has never set foot on NHL ice, the right to make his demands in effect to be traded to the team he CHOOSES to play for, yet you restrict the right of a player who has labored in a crappy system in the NHL until he's got zero confidence? This all seems double standard to me.

 

Now before you go off half cocked about the above, let me quickly state that I am not an advocate of just because a player does not get his way, that he's got a right to demand a trade, in fact , just the opposite. In this player's case however, if his apparent frequent crappy treatment is truthful, I believe he's earned a reprieve. Thus as regrettable as his going public with his demands seem, I feel it is less whimsical than several others in recent past.

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