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In Season Talk 2019-20

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So people are still butt-hurt that we traded Skinner even after we had a culture change and made it to the ECF? Add to that he is making 9 million per season for a long time, that’s what people want?

 

Umm...ok then.

 

In terms of points Skinner would rank #6 amongst our forward group, 

 

 

.

Edited by Kyrule
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I don't guess there's any reason any longer to complain about not putting teams away once you gain 2 and 3 goal leads. No one else can either. Looks like it's become a league of Offense and THE miraculous game saving save, although not many are being made in regulation thus far. So I'll just relent and say WHAT A LEAGUE. The race is on to see who can at least win the most in OT and not have to go to SO. It'd be hard not to like our chances in that scenario too with the sniping of Svech. Boston is the only division leader among the 12 that has all their wins in regulation(and they have 4 losses post reg), and a few have 5 and 6 post reg wins, as do the Canes. Coaches who've been around a while are losing great amounts of sleep in failing to somehow offset this league wide trend of giving up goals late. Or so I would bet. And I have a theory. LOL

Edited by 2ndsacker

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Dougie Hamilton      22 pts     + 11

Noah Hanifin             7 pts       – 9

 

Joel Edmundson      5 pts       + 3

Justin Faulk              6 pts       – 5

Edited by spyglass88
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4 minutes ago, spyglass88 said:

Dougie Hamilton      22 pts     + 11

Noah Hanifin             7 pts       – 9

 

Joel Edmundson      5 pts       + 3

Justin Faulk              6 pts       – 5

I want to see the stats that show how badly Cliff Pu is blowing Skinner out of the water ;)

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33 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

I want to see the stats that show how badly Cliff Pu is blowing Skinner out of the water ;)

At least Pu's +/- for the Canes is even

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I guess this Skinner BS will never go away. I don’t know if he cast a spell on some of you guys or what but at some point you have to move on.

 

The Pu stuff stopped being funny about 3 minutes after the trade.

 

Wouldn’t hurt to also consider what we accomplished when we finally got rid of him, or the fact that he is being paid 9 million a year to be a one-dimensional player that has never reached 64 points in a season.

 

No, let’s just continue to crucify management or anyone else who may have anything to do with him being traded. Let’s ignore the success and culture change that occurred after we got rid of him. Management clearly has no idea what they are doing and we should *edit* and moan about trading him until he retires.

 

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58 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

I want to see the stats that show how badly Cliff Pu is blowing Skinner out of the water ;)

 How about this: Since we're not paying Skinner $9 million for the next 7 years, we could add Eric Haula and Ryan Dzingel —

 

Dzingel      14 pts    +7     $3.375 million

Haula         11 pts     0      $2.75 million

                  25 pts    +7     $6.125 million

Skinner      13 pts    +3     $9 million

 

Also, we'll have more $$$ to pay Hamilton and Svech in two years:

 

Hamilton    22 pts

Svech        22 pts

Skinner      13 pts    

Edited by spyglass88
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18 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Revise history all you like. Skinner was told to pay a 200 foot game, did for two consecutive career years, and got buried on the third the season prior to his extension talks, specifically to lower his stats and make a (BS) case for not paying him.

 

But if spinning the facts makes you feel better, have at it.

No matter what is said about Skinners time in Raleigh the truth if the matter is he is gone and the Canes are a much better team without him.

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18 hours ago, bluedevil58 said:

 

Rem I don't care for stats because almost every time this team faces a really physical team they lose due to endless puck cycling and losing along the boards.

The thing is that is exactly the kind of physicality that I think makes a difference. Some of that is definitely laying hits. I absolutely don't want us to stop hitting. But most of it is digging and fighting for the puck to establish a turnover. In the end that part of things is about takeaways vs. giveaways. Hitting is part of it, but the more takeaways, the better teams tend to do. When we're on our game we do it with hits, but even more so with tenacious agressive forechecking, positioning and stickwork.

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1 hour ago, AWACSooner said:

I want to see the stats that show how badly Cliff Pu is blowing Skinner out of the water ;)

Well not too bad since we traded him to Florida!

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56 minutes ago, Derailed75 said:

No matter what is said about Skinners time in Raleigh the truth if the matter is he is gone and the Canes are a much better team without him.

I could not agree with you more.  I can not understand what the chatter about Skinner on this site is all about.  He is a professional hockey player that once played for the Canes, and now plays for the Sabres.  Professional athletes are pretty much nomads these days, available for hire to the highest bidder.  Each team has just so much resources within the framework of the CBA, and Skinner's money has been distributed elsewhere by the Canes, obviously to a better net value.

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The Jeff Skinner discussion along with Justin Faulk is interesting.   I met Skinner at an event at the PNC center.   He lights up a room with his smiling personality.   Justin Faulk is also one of the nicest, grounded guys you will ever meet.   I am sure that they have very easily moved on with their lives.   Neither one of them have the skill set to carry the entire team on their backs.   Both were just a small part of the team as a whole.   The thing that really jumps out at me as a sports fan is how much money one person can command and the willingness of teams to pay it.   Hockey is one of the lesser paying sports.    Other sports high paying players get gross amounts of money and many of those players fall way short of expectations.    The Hurricanes are doing just fine without either player but I also have to think that we would be doing just fine with them.  The current coach to me is the difference maker.  

 

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1 hour ago, remkin said:

Well not too bad since we traded him to Florida!

And we gave em Mongo too

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10 hours ago, Kyrule said:

So people are still butt-hurt that we traded Skinner even after we had a culture change and made it to the ECF? Add to that he is making 9 million per season for a long time, that’s what people want?

 

Umm...ok then.

 

In terms of points Skinner would rank #6 amongst our forward group, .

 

5 hours ago, Kyrule said:

I guess this Skinner BS will never go away. I don’t know if he cast a spell on some of you guys or what but at some point you have to move on.

 

The Pu stuff stopped being funny about 3 minutes after the trade.

 

Wouldn’t hurt to also consider what we accomplished when we finally got rid of him, or the fact that he is being paid 9 million a year to be a one-dimensional player that has never reached 64 points in a season.

 

No, let’s just continue to crucify management or anyone else who may have anything to do with him being traded. Let’s ignore the success and culture change that occurred after we got rid of him. Management clearly has no idea what they are doing and we should *edit* and moan about trading him until he retires.

 

You've got some pretty hot takes Kyrule.  I could just as easily say: "so some people on here are such snowflakes they're butt hurt if some other Canes fans aren't ardently anti-Skinner?"  Now, I don't mean that.  It would be a *edit*-ish post which makes inferences that aren't necessarily implied, and I only put it out there as an example of the tone your posts carry for me.  And maybe I missed it, but I don't recall anyone recently *edit*ing about the Skinner trade other than one criticism of the return, not the fact that we traded him.

 

Here's my post that first recently brought up something positive about Skinner. Note that it was in response to a number of negative Skinner comments, and it specifically states that I wouldn't want Skinner at $9m per, and that I'm happy where we've ended up post-Skinner. 

 

On 11/15/2019 at 5:29 PM, LakeLivin said:

Just curious: am I the only one on here that isn't anti-Skinner (when he isn't playing against us, of course)?  I was a fan of his when he was here.  Then, as now, I thought his positives outweighed his negatives.  Not for $9m, and I'm happy how the Canes ended up post-Jeff, mind you.  But he's getting a lot of flak about last nights game and from my couch it seems like Skinner, more than any other Slug, was the main reason Buffalo got that point. He did against us what he often did for us, which was score a critical last minute goal to tie or win a game.  And it wasn't at all unexpected from where I was sitting.

 

Top mentioned the Skinner-Ristolainen-(I forget the third Slug involved) incident as an example of our Candy Cane past.  

[From my perspective, that was the most embarrassing and unforgivable incident by the Canes I've seen since I started following them closely.  And that includes HWSNBN just standing at the blue line watching his teammates play defense.]  

He then speculated that a different team culture, where Skinner wasn't essentially left out to dry when opponents targeted him, might have led to a different scenario where Skinner might have remained as a premier scoring forward for the Canes.  Who knows?  Skinner did have a couple years where he bore down and wasn't a notable defensive liability for the Canes.  That's countered by his last year with the Canes where he clearly didn't fit in with what Brindy was building and he appeared to have given up on the team.  An argument could be made that the team had already given up on him at that point, as well. The question is, could things have developed differently where they didn't get to that point?  Maybe that's a stretch, but at the end of the day none of us actually knows.  

 

There's no doubt in my mind that the Canes are better "post Skinner".  But it's faulty logic to assume that the reason the Canes are better is primarily because they got rid of Skinner.  It's the old "correlation vs. causation" principle, and there were a lot of other changes to the team besides losing Skinner.  But my point isn't to re-litigate any part of the Skinner situation; It would be a huge waste of time and energy to go down that rabbit hole.  My point is that if anyone on here is hyper sensitive about Skinner, you might want to take a closer look at home.  A couple mentions about him seems to have triggered you, not anyone else.

Edited by LakeLivin
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On 11/16/2019 at 3:56 PM, gocanes0506 said:

Except he is doing the same on the top line in Buffalo. He doesn’t play defense or even care about it.  

You know this... because you watch the Sabres all the time? 

 

His last three years here:

'15-'16: 28G 23A 51P -2, 10.9Sh% (first line)

'16-'17: 37, 26, 63, -3, 13.2Sh% (first line)

'17-'18: 24, 25, 49, -27, 8.7Sh% (third line, contract year [TOTAL coincidence])

Buffalo

'18-'19: 40, 23, 63, 0, 14.9Sh% first line

 

For years, we deprived Eric Staal of talent, or so many claimed. It was never about him not making players better, regardless how directly the numbers pointed it up. Skinner, meanwhile, put up career numbers numerous times here with far lesser players than he's putting up similar numbers with now. If you consider that and the above numbers poor evidence of making skilled line-mates even better, I don't know what to tell you. 

 

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2 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

But it's faulty logic to assume that the reason the Canes are better is primarily because they got rid of Skinner.

 

I don’t remember saying that we are better “primarily” because we traded Skinner, there were obviously numerous factors that played a part.

 

When it comes to “assuming”, you might want to “look closer to home.”

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Far as Skinner, I didn't care one way or the other if he stayed on our roster once the team began getting more experience for our younger core, around 2017 spring I guess. What was clear, whether one thinks he was critical to the team moving forward or not, was after having watched his progression for years, Brindy didn't think so with what he was proceeding to implement. I don't have enough of an emotional connection with any pro athletes to have cared if any stay or go, but only care about the visual results once any deal is done and they're either here or gone. In this case, other factors mitigating the clear results of departure, I like the way it turned out.

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2 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

You know this... because you watch the Sabres all the time? 

 

His last three years here:

'15-'16: 28G 23A 51P -2, 10.9Sh% (first line)

'16-'17: 37, 26, 63, -3, 13.2Sh% (first line)

'17-'18: 24, 25, 49, -27, 8.7Sh% (third line, contract year [TOTAL coincidence])

Buffalo

'18-'19: 40, 23, 63, 0, 14.9Sh% first line

 

For years, we deprived Eric Staal of talent, or so many claimed. It was never about him not making players better, regardless how directly the numbers pointed it up. Skinner, meanwhile, put up career numbers numerous times here with far lesser players than he's putting up similar numbers with now. If you consider that and the above numbers poor evidence of making skilled line-mates even better, I don't know what to tell you. 

 

Skinner didn’t play on a first line on a Peters team, never trusted him. Heck didn’t even trust him to play enough defense to put him in overtime.  Peters put him with guys he could cover his issues which were lower skilled dudes. 

 

15-16 and 16-17 was the 6th or so for ice time.  17-18 he had higher ice time than 15-16 so.....


I don’t know what to tell you.

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It would be so nice if skinner talk could be where it belongs “ once they were canes”. The fixation is annoying. Perhaps it’s just me?

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59 minutes ago, cc said:

It would be so nice if skinner talk could be where it belongs “ once they were canes”. The fixation is annoying. Perhaps it’s just me?

 

Agreed.  And of course, he's likely to pop up in the game day thread when we play the Sabres, which is where I believe all this started.  Not sure how it spilled over to here . . .

Edited by LakeLivin
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Skinner kept the franchise afloat when it was sinking, for some years.  That's my take.  Regardless, it was obvious Rod wouldn't build a team with him and others in the lineup.

 

I'm fine with that, but I still follow Jeff and wish him the best.

 

 

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Skinner is water under the bridge. No reason to get upset by what he does in another sweater.  He didn't fit on a Brindy team, so he was moved on.

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