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In Season Talk 2019-20

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On 12/3/2019 at 11:23 AM, rocheccw said:

It's the NHL...Canes can totally make this happen. Hall is only 6M for the full year, & we are already 1/4 the way thru the year. So that currently brings it to 4.5M cap hit.

I would offer Bean, Toronto's conditional 1st rounder, & Reimer for Hall(1.5M salary retained)...So you lose 2.55 in Reimer but add .581 in Forsberg or Ned with NJ retaining salary...you only add 3M...while losing 1.969M + 1.695M in current cap space = .66M in cap space left...Maybe you throw in another prospect or Buffalo's 3rd round pick, but your talking about adding Taylor freaking Hall to a good team!

That is some nice number crunching  right there.    I  Wonder if Forsberg   has stepped up or Ned for that matter since we last saw either of them in preseason .  

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6 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

Hopefully that means Gardiner is sitting for a while because we wont be playing 7 defenders.

Oh please oh please OH PLEASE!!!

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Im no Gardiner fan thus far. However I see him as the lesser of the current issues.. Struggles to score, or when we do, cant play with the lead is a reoccurring theme to be addressed... 

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4 hours ago, PamlicoPuck said:

Im no Gardiner fan thus far. However I see him as the lesser of the current issues.. Struggles to score, or when we do, cant play with the lead is a reoccurring theme to be addressed... 

Agree totally.  Don't matter how good your D is if you cant score more goals than the opposition.

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5 hours ago, PamlicoPuck said:

Im no Gardiner fan thus far. However I see him as the lesser of the current issues.. Struggles to score, or when we do, cant play with the lead is a reoccurring theme to be addressed... 

 

 

Can't argue with that, however at the same time his offense is supposedly his selling point, so that's 2 fronts he's failing on.  It's possible it's a Hamilton situation where he's playing through injury and will turn it around when he heals, but to that i'll say the same thing i said about Hamilton - give him a few games off to get there.  We're rolling out 7 d-men for Pete's (Tom's) sake, so it isn't like we don't have enough defensemen to let the guy rest.

 

If he isn't injured, meanwhile, then he simply sucks.  Either way, a few games off wouldn't be a bad thing.  Hoping if Gibbons draws in that it's in his place,, not in TVR's or Fleury's.

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Canes listed in a reposted article on Yahoo as a one of 5 destinations for Taylor Hall that make sense. https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nhl-trade-rumors-five-destinations-182117258.html

 

I have listed my concerns for renting him and for extending him. Renting is cost, ie first rounder? for one run. Extending is big money into a guy's late thirties for a guy who has been very injury prone. 

 

However, there is another way of looking at it. TD has said that the league is won by stars. You want stars on your team. If Taylor Hall stays healthy, this is a ppg player. I tend to look at Tampa and Boston and Washington and think, why give up assets for a run now? BUT then I think, this is another year of building the product. Another year of selling tickets. And this team with a relatively healthy Taylor Hall is pretty loaded too. 

 

Aho, TT, Svech, and Hall, all ppg, dynamic players. Necas dynamic and legit Calder contender. That's 5 dynamic forwards with 4 ppg players. Then if Staal, Dzingel, and Nino get back in form and we get Haula back? Given the skill on our back end? Also Hall would help the pp. 

 

TT-Aho-Svech

Necas-Haula-Hall

Dzingel-Staal-Nino

 

Mix and match, but that top 9 is legit. Then Foegele-Walmark-Martinook/ McGinn. Not shabby for a 4th line.

 

And what a huge updraft of interest in the team.

 

Could we offload Gardiner? Or move TVR as part of it to free up the D log jam and not give up a first rounder? Would Jersey take a second rounder (we will almost certainly have 2), Gardiner or TVR, a B prospect, etc. for a rental deal? 

 

I think that Jersey is looking for overpayment right now. But that also means that Hall is probably still around a while. Rentals often don't work out, but they seem more likely to work if the new guy is on the team a while before the deadline. Also, Hall is yearning to be part of a winner, and we could see the Nino effect. Brind'Amour is also a guy players want to play for, and who lets guys make plays. 

 

I am still concerned about cost. But the more I realize that you never know what tomorrow brings....how fun would it be to have Hall out there with these guys? Even if just for this year. Lots of fun. That I can tell you.

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Even if NJD ate half of Hall’s salary, someone McGinn or higher payroll wise would have to go back.

 

if we want to keep Hall long term, then Nino would have to go the other way.  
 

even with that said, as great as this upcoming draft is, the only way I give NJD a first is if we get Palmieri too.  That isn’t happening so, it is moot IMO. Now the 2021 first may be a different story.

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If you subscribe this is an interesting take on Hall's long term value in the Athletic. It is contrarian to a lot of the conventional wisdom that someone will likely get saddled with an onerous contract. https://theathletic.com/1434943/2019/12/05/why-taylor-hall-is-a-big-enough-talent-to-be-worth-a-long-term-contract-gamble/.

 

The basic argument is that Hall is worth the gamble because he is elite. The receiving team will get at least 2.5 years of near ppg production, but then he most likely falls off but is still a difference maker for all of the rest of his career dropping to around .7 ppg near the end. The downside is injury mostly. The only guy in the example set that was out of the league not due to injury before 35 was someone we know and don't name who went back to mother Russia. The guys who have shortened careers due to injury tend to go on LTIR, or can get bought out, or traded in lopsided trades to get salary off the books.  Ironically the rare worst case, is actually guys who's injuries cut them way back, but they kept playing. That is the biggest risk. They were the exception though.

 

Interesting too, is that the typical UFA overpay was addressed. The main problem they argue is that teams end up spending top bucks for second line players, who when they decline, end up being third liners (or worse) in the last 3-4 years, but who end up being paid like first liners. Guys in Hall's skill level tend to fall back to very productive second liners on average, with some exceptions still being at the top of the league even at 35. Thing is that few of these guys actually make it to UFA. 

 

Another interesting point is that the collective bargaining process has flattened out the pay curve and helped the mid range players more than guys at the bottom OR the top. Elite Star players salaries have not increased as much as the mid range guys. Arguing further that paying for elite players tends to be a good value despite the seemingly big contracts.

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Not to be the contrarian on the Hall thoughts, but how often I've mentally dreamed of a true game changer being brought into our team, but I dare say aside from our present coach, and the infamous Russian, I have a hard time recalling a single one, Staal being the only one of recent memory? Admittedly it would be very exciting, and I'd love to dream big time, but realistically, neither is Jordan Staal being traded or Taylor Hall coming to Carolina. I'm still clinging to the hope that JWilly might have a change of heart though, so who am I to be critical of those thinking about Hall?

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I'm a bit torn on Hall. The capologists among us might look at the anticipated bump in the cap, especially in 2 years, and what player might go to NJ if we made a trade and how that might affect things. What will Svech require, etc. Also the expansion draft experts to look at potential downsides there. 

 

Obviously Marlaeu's $6.25 comes off next year, along with Faulk's $0.68M for about $7 million, and HWSNBN comes off the year after that, when the cap is expected to bump big time. Also, Haula may not return next year and Dzingel the following possibly, all off the books before Svech has to be signed. 

 

Also, TVR's $2.3M off next year and Edmundson, though I'd re-sign Edmundson. If Gardiner does not come around, trading him and moving Bean or someone else up from Charlotte frees up another $2-3 million.

 

Just seems doable if we wanted to.

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Athletic Article on the new Practice Facility worth a read: https://theathletic.com/1439379/2019/12/06/new-practice-facility-will-be-a-source-of-pride-for-the-hurricanes-and-a-potential-tournament-destination/?source=weeklyemail, $. 

 

“It’s going to be a recruiting opportunity for us as we bring players into town,” Waddell said. “Right now, we take them to PNC Arena and we tell them we don’t really have a practice rink, ’cause we don’t really want to take them to RCI.

 

Looks like it's going to be Niiiiiice. 

 

Just had to add this classic quote from Brind'Amour:

 

“Nobody remembers when we first got here — we used to shower then walk through the lobby in our robes, so (RCI) is a huge upgrade here, already.....

 

In fairness, he does go on to say the new facility will be nice.

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It wasn't so long ago that Canes "news" as it were made no run through social media, no attention around NHL posts and forums, no interest in the hockey world at large. Scarcely a day goes by anymore that something concerning Canes games, antics, comments, moves, potential moves, JERKS fandom, etc, etc, etc, isn't all over the hockey discussions from coast to coast. Call me whatever, but I just LOVE that. LOL:popcorn: It'd be hard to say that IT IS not an interesting collection of people that make up our squad, fanbase and Canes Nation in general. Then again, Abraham Lincoln said "Avoid popularity, If you would have peace"

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