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In Season Talk 2019-20

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As much grief as I've given Faulk over the years, I also gave him serious kudos for his play last year. Justin Faulk played infinitely better D last year than the 4 years prior. This was not just a little, but a lot better. Faulk was +9 good for 6th on the team. Then there was Calvin DeHaan. I get the shoulder, and the contract but we replaced the contract with Gardiner, and we got Jack and his buddy back in that trade. 

 

So Strong D Faulk, and CDH > Gardiner and Edmundson. But actually IMO Edmundson has been pretty good. It's not really fair to make this comparison since they play very different games, but Edmundson has been +4 and Faulk was +9 which is pretty similar. On the other hand Calvin DeHaan was +1 (despite bringing little offense) while Gardiner is -21. Again CDH has the injury, but I believe that if we just kept CDH (and he was healthy) but moved Faulk and got back Edumnudson, and never signed Gardiner, we'd be so much more solid on D, and probably have 3 more wins at least and at the very least 2nd in the Metro and 4th in the NHL.

 

Last year the committee decided (rightly) that we needed to fix the PP. Gardiner was added for that reason mainly. And given his decent overall defense his last few years in Toronto, it was not a crazy move. But I lamented CDH out because he was a defense first guy who hit but also got the puck up the ice. That kind of D man is underrated. (see Sekera). They take care of business that Gardiner is fumbling like a 2 year old trying to juggle tennis balls. 

 

Turns out our PP got fixed by adding skill up front and Dougie. Very little of our shiny new PP is due to Gardiner. 

 

It may seem overly simplistic, but it's true. The main issue right now is Jake Gardiner. Here is a comparison of Faulk and CDH last year, and Edmundson and Gardiner this year:

 

+9, +1

+4, -21

 

Which one of these is not like the other? Which one of these just doesn't belong? I think we all know. 

 

And BTW Fleury has looked very solid. 

 

I don't know if the answer is to sell Gardiner low or not. I do know I want to see Fleury get in most nights. Gardiner is costing us games, but he also has upside, and he can't return much now. It is taking a lot of patience waiting for him to get his act together. 

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8 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

How may more chances do we give him to get his act together, though?  It’s indirectly costing us wins!

That's the question. Is this like Dougy last year and he'll "build a season" to quote Tripp, or is this going to keep on all year and potentially into the playoffs?

 

Tactically on the ice, we don't need him like we thought we would since the PP is ok without him. Strategically though actually moving him might be harder than it looks, is definitely selling low and could have unintended consequences. Also, if Gardiner finds his game he can be a huge positive. 

 

I don't really know. It helps that we're still mostly winning. 

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Isn’t Gardner signed for 4 years at $4 million or thereabouts? How do you trade that contract given his performance even if you want to? If Rod and Dean C. agree with everyone on this board, isn’t the solution to just sit him and play TVR and Fleury at the same time. If I’m not mistaken, he’s been playing with Pesce on what I assume is our second pair the last few games. What does Rod see that no one else does? I know the value of plus/minus is debated often, but -21 has to mean something.

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41 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

Jake Gardiner would have to pay to lick Faulk's skate boots.  That is all I have to say about that.

Seems so, but then things are much clearer in the rear view mirror?

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1 hour ago, KJUNKANE said:

Seems so, but then things are much clearer in the rear view mirror?

 

You forget sir, I'm one of the guys who took the *edit*.  I'd take Justin Faulk on the team right now over anybody not named Slavin, Pesce, or Hamilton.  Like I always have.  Too bad he wanted 6 million.

 

With that said, I'd save any available money or cap space for another D man down the stretch and not squander it on a wish and a prayer. 

 

And at some point we need a goalie that can steal a game.  I can't remember at any point this season our tandem has pulled that off.

 

 

Edited by coastal_caniac
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Forslund was right about the D.  DeHaan is better than Edmundson.  Faulk is better than Gardiner.  Last year's Pesce is better than this year's Pesce.  I don't know what the answer is, but it is a concern.

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1 hour ago, super_dave_1 said:

Forslund was right about the D.  DeHaan is better than Edmundson.  Faulk is better than Gardiner.  Last year's Pesce is better than this year's Pesce.  I don't know what the answer is, but it is a concern.

Yep.

 

The Pesce thing is vexing me.  I don't know what happened there.

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20 minutes ago, wxray1 said:

Yep.

 

The Pesce thing is vexing me.  I don't know what happened there.

Got used to playing on his off side?  Not sure.  Chemistry with a new linemate?

Edited by gocanes0506

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12 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

Got used to playing on his off side?  Not sure.  Chemistry with a new linemate?

Maybe we should put him back with Slavin. It seems like late in games we still play them together when we are tied or up one goal. Not sure what that would do to Hamilton though.

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20 hours ago, remkin said:

That's the question. Is this like Dougy last year and he'll "build a season" to quote Tripp, or is this going to keep on all year and potentially into the playoffs?

 

Tactically on the ice, we don't need him like we thought we would since the PP is ok without him. Strategically though actually moving him might be harder than it looks, is definitely selling low and could have unintended consequences. Also, if Gardiner finds his game he can be a huge positive. 

 

I don't really know. It helps that we're still mostly winning. 

 

At this point this is all I care about.  Despite our D issues we're on a 100 point pace folks.  2nd most points in franchise history.  Always room for improvement but this is what I care about; we're still winning.  Who knows, we may pick up more D during the trade deadline this season.  I don't think we need any more skilled forwards at this point.

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3 hours ago, Sportsfan-1-2 said:

At this point this is all I care about.  Despite our D issues we're on a 100 point pace folks.  2nd most points in franchise history.  Always room for improvement but this is what I care about; we're still winning.  Who knows, we may pick up more D during the trade deadline this season.  I don't think we need any more skilled forwards at this point.

 

 

I care about the fact the Canes are mostly winning as well, but i also care about the fact the Canes are only mostly winning against 3 divisions, none of those being the Metro.  2nd most points in franchise history is great, but only sitting in a wildcard spot and only 3 points over the cut line.  They really need to get a grip on the division also-rans, and the defense getting their stuff together would be a great start to that.

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13 minutes ago, realmdrakkar said:

 

 

I care about the fact the Canes are mostly winning as well, but i also care about the fact the Canes are only mostly winning against 3 divisions, none of those being the Metro.  2nd most points in franchise history is great, but only sitting in a wildcard spot and only 3 points over the cut line.  They really need to get a grip on the division also-rans, and the defense getting their stuff together would be a great start to that.

 

Agreed.  If my math is correct, we're 3-7-1 vs our own division and that includes 0-3 against the Rags, 0-2 vs the Flyers and 0-1-1 vs CBJ.  All teams below us in the division.  I guess the positive about this is that we're 2-1 vs Washington and 1-0 vs Islanders. Both are above us.  We have yet to face the Pens.

 

At this point it seems we fare well against the better teams and struggle against the worse teams.  We need that to even out.  We have Philly on Tuesday, and WSH and CBJ on the road after this homestand so we have a chance to improve our division record coming up.  If we can end up with a .500 record vs the division and keep our dominant play going against non divisional opponents throughout the season that should boost our positioning in the playoff race. 

 

Right now we're above the cut line strictly due to our play vs non divisional opponents (Atlantic) and the teams in the Western Conference.  Imagine how much better we'd be if we improve or start to improve our divisional play.

 

If we were 6-6-1 or .500 vs our own division right now we'd be sitting in 2nd place behind Washington.

Edited by Sportsfan-1-2
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23 minutes ago, sleekfeeder said:

Two measuring stick games. We didn't measure up.

We lost to two teams that are better/higher in the standings. Maybe we will start winning against teams that are  behind us in standings.

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On 1/4/2020 at 10:40 PM, coastal_caniac said:

 

You forget sir, I'm one of the guys who took the *edit*.  I'd take Justin Faulk on the team right now over anybody not named Slavin, Pesce, or Hamilton.  Like I always have.  Too bad he wanted 6 million.

 

With that said, I'd save any available money or cap space for another D man down the stretch and not squander it on a wish and a prayer. 

 

And at some point we need a goalie that can steal a game.  I can't remember at any point this season our tandem has pulled that off.

 

 

coastal, my comment wasn't singling you out by any means, and was as much a "self reflection" as anything. It was simply meant to say that things have become much clearer on this side of these trades, but at the time they went down, they seemed to be a step in the right direction, if not necessary due to approaching POSSIBLE cap issues(Faulk) or an injury prone player (DeHaan)? That they seem to have not panned out is unfortunate, but it wasn't for lack of trying. Thinking on that, I'd much rather the "trying approach" than the "sitting on our hands" one that we agonized over in the not too distant past? 

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Right now this team is facing an uphill battle with the schedule and roster. We have a top 5 toughest schedule remaining, around 8.5 million of dead cap space between Marleau, HWSNBN, and Faulk, about 15 million of dead weight on the roster Staal, Nino and Gardiner, and Mrazek is playing like the inconsistent Mrazek we know.

 

The guys can work through it but it will be tough. 

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Wonder if the team's assessing it's needs and leaning towards acquiring defensive help or if Willy said maybe I'm actually happy being retired?

 

Someones waffling, can't see Forslund just making rumors about this past weekend for the fun of it.

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4 minutes ago, legend-1 said:

Wonder if the team's assessing it's needs and leaning towards acquiring defensive help or if Willy said maybe I'm actually happy being retired?

 

Someones waffling, can't see Forslund just making rumors about this past weekend for the fun of it.

How ridiculous would we look trying to get more defensive help?

 

Gardiner is poop and we’re seeing why Edmundson sat in St Louis but we don’t need more defenders. We need to stop forcing Nino on the top line, stop shackling Svech to Staal, and get a consistent starting goalie.  

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8 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

How ridiculous would we look trying to get more defensive help?

 

 

You need to call into the post game show and discuss this with Forslund, because he is all in on needed more defensive help.  I'm not joking, it would make for a good back and forth discussion.

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15 minutes ago, wxray1 said:

 

You need to call into the post game show and discuss this with Forslund, because he is all in on needed more defensive help.  I'm not joking, it would make for a good back and forth discussion.

He must feel that getting another defender is better than getting a goalie.  

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Just now, gocanes0506 said:

He must feel that getting another defender is better than getting a goalie.  

I'm thinking it is easier to add to the D-corps than throw a third in the G mix.

 

Then again, I dunno.  As I think coastal mentioned on the general thread, the last few games have had weaknesses in all three aspects of the game.  O, D and G. 

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1 hour ago, wxray1 said:

I'm thinking it is easier to add to the D-corps than throw a third in the G mix.

 

Then again, I dunno.  As I think coastal mentioned on the general thread, the last few games have had weaknesses in all three aspects of the game.  O, D and G. 

 

Gardiner supposedly still had suitors a month ago, allegedly teams had already began asking. I can't provide link so hopefully I read it in the forum. I wouldn't be surprised if every time Gardiner takes to the ice since then he's ruined those chances though.

 

Ned's cheap and at least from Charlottes last few social media posts he seems hot. Adding a 3rd goalie might not be that difficult. Adrenaline laced goalies have done weirder things like win a cup last year.

 

Sign Williams with every last ounce of cap space though and yes adding a 3rd goalie's impossible.

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This team has got me nervous.  I don't like the streakiness.  I don't like that when we do win it's a high scoring game on both sides.   Defense and Goaltending has got to come around, we can't keep hoping for 5 plus goals every game.  At least we have offense this year for the most part.  The pieces are there and the coach is there.   Not sure whats missing.

And J. Staal man,  where is he at lately?  Doing that slow bend over and reach for the puck thing that his brother did the last couple years instead of moving his feet and going at it 110percent.  

hopefully just a rough few weeks and we get back to .700 hockey now.  

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