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In Season Talk 2019-20

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2 minutes ago, legend-1 said:

I think theres only 2 seasons in the last 10 years where the loser point did us any good. The 10-11 playoff race and maybe last year. More often then not it's cost us 2-3 draft positions while also missing the playoffs by over 10 points. For instance did the Canes teams with 16 and 15 OT losses really need loser points to feel good or their proper draft position in the long run? We still missed by over 10 points, loser points just seem like putting lipstick on Hamilton.

Ah, yeah, looking at it from a draft position is a whole new dimension!

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 If you look at https://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/NHL_2020_standings.html you can see the regulation points percentage which would be what the standings would more or less look like in the pre-looser point era. The problem with the looser point is it devalues the regulation wins by treating overtime wins the same as regulation wins. The following is the eastern playoff picture 1st is current pts, 2nd is legends minus looser points, 3rd is previous system of 1 point each for tie at end of regulation and 4th is 3 point system mentioned by BDC.

 

Pens.           80.    74.     69.    106.    

Caps.           80.    74.     71.    108

Flyers.         75.    68.      65.    99

Bruins.         88.    76.     83.    121

Lightning.    85.    80.     77.    117

BJs.              73.    60.     66.     96

Canes.         72.    68.      62.    96

Isles.            72.    66.      61.    94

Florida.        70.    64.      65.    97

Leafs.          72.     64.     64.     96

Rags.           66.     62.     62.     93

 

I know the results would vary a bit if the teams knew the point system was different. There isn't a massive difference in the various systems because the Met tends to win in OT more than loose with the exception of BJs and the Rags who have about half the OT appearances. 

 

While a 3 point per game system would probably be fairer for the standings, adopting the looser point system was an improvement over the previous system allowing games to end in a tie.

Edited by DevildogKodi
Finished a thought

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3 hours ago, legend-1 said:

When I start looking at playoffs and how things may pan out eventually the loser point catches my eye and just how frickin dumb it is. Columbus doesn't even remotely deserve to be in this discussion of playoffs at 13 OT losses. 

 

Geez oh pete does the loser point **** me off.

 

Without the loser point:

 

Pens 74

Caps 74

Flyers 68

Bruins 76

Lightning 80

BJs 60

Canes 68

Isles 66

Florida 64

 

5 minutes ago, DevildogKodi said:

 If you look at https://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/NHL_2020_standings.html you can see the regulation points percentage which would be what the standings would more or less look like in the pre-looser point era. The problem with the looser point is it devalues the regulation wins by treating overtime wins the same as regulation wins. The following is the eastern playoff picture 1st is current pts, 2nd is legends minus looser points, 3rd is previous system of 1 point each for tie at end of regulation and 4th is 3 point system mentioned by BDC.

 

Pens.           80.    74.     69.    106.    

Caps.           80.    74.     71.    108

Flyers.         75.    68.      65.    99

Bruins.         88.    76.     83.    121

Lightning.    85.    80.     77.    117

BJs.              73.    60.     66.     96

Canes.         72.    68.      62.    96

Isles.            72.    66.      61.    94

Florida.        70.    64.      65.    97

Leafs.          72.     64.     64.     96

Rags.           66.     62.     62.     93

 

I know the results would vary a bit if the teams knew the point system was different. There isn't a massive difference in the various systems because the Met tends to win in OT more than loose with the exception of BJs and the Rags who have about half the OT appearances. 

 

Legend - and yet, if the standings were according to the previous system (ties) CBJ would be 4th and Canes tied for 9th.

 

For the record, I'm for the 3-2-1 system regardless of how it would effect the Canes in any given year.  Each game should be worth a set amount of points regardless of the outcome imo.

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39 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

For the record, I'm for the 3-2-1 system regardless of how it would effect the Canes in any given year.  Each game should be worth a set amount of points regardless of the outcome imo.

 

 

This.  Truthfully i think the system wasn't broken when every game was worth 2 points, they went into a 5-on-5 OT if there was a tie after 3, and they called the game a tie if nobody scored in OT.  But if they want to change things up, fine... just make every game worth the same number of points.  3-2-1 would make more sense than the current system.

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We have hashed this out before.  The loser point is a marketing device used to present the illusion of teams being in it later into the season than they really are.  It keeps more teams in it, which keeps more fanbases engaged which means $.  Its not about fairness it is about $.

 

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14 minutes ago, hag65 said:

We have hashed this out before.  The loser point is a marketing device used to present the illusion of teams being in it later into the season than they really are.  It keeps more teams in it, which keeps more fanbases engaged which means $.  Its not about fairness it is about $.

 

hag, although I firmly agree that the "loser point" is a ploy for $$$, I don't believe your take "used to present the illusion of teams being in it later into the season". Rather it does present the illusion, real or not, that there's parity in the NHL. While this might be only a semantical difference between us, the undergirding concept is $$$ related, as few teams appear completely out of it, thus fans keep turning out to the bitter end.

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4 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

 I’ve seen suggestions that each game be worth 3 points. Regulation win would be worth 3. OT or SO win gets 2 with OT/SO loser getting the 3rd point. That would be one way to place more value on regulation wins, but I’m not sure it’s any less perfect than the current system. 

I've been advocating for that for years. Right now you have a situation where some games are worth 3 points, some 2 points. But mainly, hockey is a very close scoring game as goals are fewer. So allowing some measure for dominance seems fair. But it's also pretty clean conceptually. There are always three points available. Win cleanly, get all 3. Win in OT/SO get 2 and the loser gets one. Thus teams winning cleanly, by larger margins get rewarded as they should, since they are better. 

 

But as much as I've advocated for this, I also know it will not happen any time soon. The current system works for the NHL by creating an illusion. The illusion that teams are bunched up. The illusion that teams out of the playoffs might get in. It is the loser points in large part that makes the climb into the playoffs so much harder than it looks. It has been shown that by Jan 1, if a team is out by 10 points or more, they're historically toast. There is still nearly a half of a season left, and 10 points is just 5 wins. Why is it so undoable? The teams in front of you keep picking up loser points even if they are struggling. But the whole time your odds are maybe 4%, it looks much more doable.

 

If a team got 3 points for a clean win vs 1 point for the OT loss, teams could go on runs and close down that gap. But they would also be "farther out" to start with as the total number of points would increase. So teams would look farther out of it if they struggled.

 

Case in point. Right now Montreal is 8 points out of a playoff spot. But the combination of magic beans and the scoring system almost make it look like they have an outside shot. If we used the 3 point system, Montreal would be 14 points out without even factoring that they give 3 beans. 

 

The loser point makes it look like teams have a shot and are still in it, long after their playoff odds have become microscopic.

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Heard several at the game around me last night talking about the hit to Haula, and expecting some disciplinary action? Crickets so far?

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8 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

Heard several at the game around me last night talking about the hit to Haula, and expecting some disciplinary action? Crickets so far?

Nothing’s gonna happen...cause it’s us, and the DPS is a complete *edit* joke!

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23 hours ago, hag65 said:

We have hashed this out before.  The loser point is a marketing device used to present the illusion of teams being in it later into the season than they really are.  It keeps more teams in it, which keeps more fanbases engaged which means $.  Its not about fairness it is about $.

 

Agree 100%.  $ are the highest priority.  Not unlike baseball.  Back in the day, one team won the pennant from each league and played the World Series to decide on a champion.  Then each leagues split into 2 divisions and a playoff system started.  Then there were 3 divisions which predicated a Wild Card winner.  Then there were 2 wild card winners to have a 1 game playoff to decide THE wild card winner to have an opponent for the #1 seed.  It has become all about selling tickets and advertising for the longest amount of time for the greatest number of contenders.  Then there came cheating.  Well, at least we have yet to see that in this sport........

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25 minutes ago, beboplar said:

Then there came cheating.  Well, at least we have yet to see that in this sport........

Give it time, avarice is a tempting instinct, much like Marley girl?

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I believe there have been some illegal stick incidents.

 

Good thing the goaltender can bang his stick on the ice to call an end to the penalty.  If there were trash can lids on the bench, players would be beating them with sticks.

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23 minutes ago, wxray1 said:

I believe there have been some illegal stick incidents.

 

Good thing the goaltender can bang his stick on the ice to call an end to the penalty.  If there were trash can lids on the bench, players would be beating them with sticks.

There may have been more illegal goalie pads (size) than sticks.  Neither violation compares to what the Astros and Red Sox did.

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42 minutes ago, beboplar said:

There may have been more illegal goalie pads (size) than sticks.  Neither violation compares to what the Astros and Red Sox did.

I don't even think reading the shoot out sheet with a telescope and transmitting it to the other coach can compare.

 

That's what makes hockey so pure.  The fast pace chaos of the game helps avoid many of the find-out-the-other-team-strategy cheats.

 

But let's not talk about diving...

 

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20 hours ago, beboplar said:

There may have been more illegal goalie pads (size) than sticks.  Neither violation compares to what the Astros and Red Sox did.

Any systems beatable if you're sleezy enough but I think the NHL and goalie gear is handled well.

The refs go in the locker room pregame to verify every piece of goalie equipment has Kay Whitmores (Head of goaltending) initials on it meaning he's measured and approved the equipment for use. If it's missing he's gotta wear something else.

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I want to bring up something  that has been catching my eye lately  ,  Ever since Nino and Necas    have been working with each other   you can see the  Chemistry  between those two     and  as a result Nino  and Necas   are scoring  at a alarming rate lately .    Do you think maybe the reason why some players on the team end up going cold   is because  they are not with the right pairing ?   It's great to finally see production  come from nino  and necas   coming alive ,  Even though Haula's scoring has  kinda stopped   i don't think it would be wise to split up the 3   .  

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I haven't seen any update on Mrazek. Fingers crossed he won't be out long. The loss of Riems and especially Pecse are monumental. All hands on deck

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18 minutes ago, OBXer said:

I haven't seen any update on Mrazek. Fingers crossed he won't be out long. The loss of Riems and especially Pecse are monumental. All hands on deck

Yah, this one is gonna hurt...if we lose Slavin, we might as well pack it in...

 

Question now is: Bean, McKeown, or Priskie?

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42 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

Yah, this one is gonna hurt...if we lose Slavin, we might as well pack it in...

 

Question now is: Bean, McKeown, or Priskie?

 

I don't know Bean right shot McKeown possible Priskie would be my guess but wow TVR skating top pair, Edmundson 2nd pair off his natural side and McKeown or Priskie 3rd pair. No need a trade or signing

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40 minutes ago, OBXer said:

 

I don't know Bean right shot McKeown possible Priskie would be my guess but wow TVR skating top pair, Edmundson 2nd pair off his natural side and McKeown or Priskie 3rd pair. No need a trade or signing

Not for D...it’s the Netminders that worries me if both are out long term

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59 minutes ago, OBXer said:

 

I don't know Bean right shot McKeown possible Priskie would be my guess but wow TVR skating top pair, Edmundson 2nd pair off his natural side and McKeown or Priskie 3rd pair. No need a trade or signing

Bean is a left shot ,   im not sure what McKeown  is   ,  Priskie is a right shot and so is the new guy Keane.  

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3 minutes ago, Canesfanforever said:

Bean is a left shot ,   im not sure what McKeown  is   ,  Priskie is a right shot and so is the new guy Keane.  

We have 4 righties in Charlotte: Mckeown, Priskie, Kaski, and Keane 

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2 hours ago, AWACSooner said:

Yah, this one is gonna hurt...if we lose Slavin, we might as well pack it in...

 

Question now is: Bean, McKeown, or Priskie?

If Pesce is down they should call up McKeown.  RH shooting defensive defenseman, seasoned, not prone to mistakes.  

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56 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

We have 4 righties in Charlotte: Mckeown, Priskie, Kaski, and Keane 

 

And my impression is that all have NHL potential.  Not sure what that means right now, though. :unsure:

 

I believe Forsling has 122 NHL games under his belt.  Wonder how much he's played his off side over his career?  

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40 minutes ago, beboplar said:

If Pesce is down they should call up McKeown.  RH shooting defensive defenseman, seasoned, not prone to mistakes.  

I'll build off of this post because I agree. Unless McKeown has shown issues this year (I only put this since I don't know), he is the guy I'd call up. Not only RHD, but as you point out, the most solid defensively of all of them. Shaya called him, I think, the most important Checker in their cup run, or something like that. He was at the top of the AHL in +/- for the two previous seasons. He was declared NHL ready by Canes brass THREE years ago. Pesce is solid. McKeown is solid. 

 

Priskie is improving, but his forte is offense, and he doesn't even have a full pro season yet. Don't know Kaskie, but Keane would be the longest shot of all. Still only 20. No time to even learn the system in the AHL. He's a future future IMO.

 

Bean is the highest end guy, but he is a LHD so how many guys do we want on their off side? 

 

McKeown. Maybe Bean. Of course, that's just my opinion.

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