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In Season Talk 2019-20

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1 hour ago, thickburglar said:

https://www.nhl.com/news/sami-vatanen-injury-status/c-315888210

 

We thought he would be ready in early March. How did we screw this up? 

AS much as anything, I think there were 2 factors here. 1st was the desperation at the time, and likely realizing that a goalie acquisition was not happening, put this trade in a very iffy situation.

 

2nd, foot injuries are probable as unpredictable as in anywhere in the body, mainly because of unknown and limited vascular supply there? Healing to the foot, and that's where I'm presuming this injury to be, is extremely difficult to estimate? 

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1 hour ago, donwalrus said:

The ONLY thing I've noticed about Trochek (at least a few times) is the guy can skate through defenders and get to the net. Just seems like when he does it, he's kinda going solo with no wingers ready for passes or rebounds...I think the guy has potential, but something isn't clicking right now with him and our "system"

don, here's where I'm hopeful that with time, as much as he must adjust to his new line mates, they also need to adjust to his speed? If so, and we can find players of equal ability to keep pace, that then "weaponizes" another line besides the SAT one?

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5 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

AS much as anything, I think there were 2 factors here. 1st was the desperation at the time, and likely realizing that a goalie acquisition was not happening, put this trade in a very iffy situation.

 

2nd, foot injuries are probable as unpredictable as in anywhere in the body, mainly because of unknown and limited vascular supply there? Healing to the foot, and that's where I'm presuming this injury to be, is extremely difficult to estimate? 

Ah I see. Well maybe we were prepared for this with the conditional draft pick. If Vatanen is out longer term do we move up Priskie or Keane? We will need another RHD ASAP. 

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1 minute ago, KJUNKANE said:

don, here's where I'm hopeful that with time, as much as he must adjust to his new line mates, they also need to adjust to his speed? If so, and we can find players of equal ability to keep pace, that then "weaponizes" another line besides the SAT one?

exactly what I'm thinking. When he gets the chance to break through the center, the other guys need to be fast enough to get into position. 

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10 minutes ago, thickburglar said:

 

Ah I see. Well maybe we were prepared for this with the conditional draft pick. If Vatanen is out longer term do we move up Priskie or Keane? We will need another RHD ASAP. 

Well, considering we shipped Priskie to the SwampCats in the Trocheck trade...

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The fact that so many guys who can do better are not, is both terrifying and still oddly leaves some hope. The terrifying thing is that Rod does not have guys not on the SAT line playing the A game. Some games the SAT line isn't going and then, especially with no Dougie, we are not generating the way our A game does. We are generating the way the teams of the past do, which is hardly at all. 

 

My hope was that Trocheck could drive offense enough for a second reliable line to start generating chances. And given the available options this was a reasonable thing to try. And it still could work, though it has not so far. 

 

The D? I think we could have gone call ups, but I don't think Skjei is the reason for the 0-4. 

 

No one wants to blame the goalies. Doesn't seem very nice. It's not their fault they got thrown in. They haven't been awful. But they haven't been great either. I'm sorry, but not getting a goalie at the TD was the biggest risk and we took it. Many assume that Lehner wouldn't come here, but I've seen no proof of that. Most say that the cost was a first rounder. Well the cost actually was a prospect, a shaky goalie and a second rounder. Both goalies out for at least the better part of two weeks and we don't get any help there. I wonder what that did to the room.

 

Our AHL goalies so far are 0-4 with a .885 save percentage both. And it goes further. The way the team plays. I know, I know, they rallied around the Zamboni driver. But since then they've played very tentatively in front of the AHL goalies. I can't say they'd have won with Lehner back there, but they might have because they just might have played differently in front of him.

 

The good news is that the skill is there if Brindy can get the guys back on full tilt and we are still on the cusp with games in hand. This is where the coach and team figure it out or they don't. It would help getting Mrazek back.

 

It will be interesting to see how the committee reshapes this team for next year, but I'm not quite ready to go there yet.

 

 

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1 hour ago, remkin said:

Many assume that Lehner wouldn't come here, but I've seen no proof of that. Most say that the cost was a first rounder. Well the cost actually was a prospect, a shaky goalie and a second rounder.

 

True, but that was the Knight's cost and not necessarily ours. Knowing how desperate we were and how many picks we have, I think the Hawks didn't hesitate trying to hose Don. My guess is the committee was willing to part at with one 1st and 2nds plus player(s) for a goalie and a decent D-man. Since they expected Petr not to be out too long it makes sense that they opted for Skjei and the length of his contract. Going for Lehner would have meant losing either Petr or Reims on waiver or ending up paying their NHL salary in Charlotte and still risk Lehner walking after the season if we didn't pay what he expected.

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5 minutes ago, Whaler1 said:

 

True, but that was the Knight's cost and not necessarily ours. Knowing how desperate we were and how many picks we have, I think the Hawks didn't hesitate trying to hose Don. My guess is the committee was willing to part at with one 1st and 2nds plus player(s) for a goalie and a decent D-man. Since they expected Petr not to be out too long it makes sense that they opted for Skjei and the length of his contract. Going for Lehner would have meant losing either Petr or Reims on waiver or ending up paying their NHL salary in Charlotte and still risk Lehner walking after the season if we didn't pay what he expected.

Canes have to still think long term and not short term .    To build a winner   for the long term  is to make sure that there is room for talent to come to a team and stay ,   The whole Vatanen   deal  sucks on our part  but if he were to want to play for the canes  and sign with the  team in the off season  that would be grand .    Players  don't like being traded ,   they  understand this is a business  but at the same time   they take it as if they were being fired  / let go .   If Vatanen   see's  that the Canes can be a legit  contender   he might consider staying  . 

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24 minutes ago, Whaler1 said:

 

True, but that was the Knight's cost and not necessarily ours. Knowing how desperate we were and how many picks we have, I think the Hawks didn't hesitate trying to hose Don. My guess is the committee was willing to part at with one 1st and 2nds plus player(s) for a goalie and a decent D-man. Since they expected Petr not to be out too long it makes sense that they opted for Skjei and the length of his contract. Going for Lehner would have meant losing either Petr or Reims on waiver or ending up paying their NHL salary in Charlotte and still risk Lehner walking after the season if we didn't pay what he expected.

I guess we probably won't know the true cost to us. We are not in their conference. Maybe we just didn't have what they wanted or they held out for a first rounder from us, knowing they had the Knights deal in their back pocket.  

 

I would argue that we knew that Petr was out for a minimum of 7 days, and far more likely 10 days with a decent chance of 12-14 days and an outside chance of weeks or more. We knew that because we knew Petr had a concussion. The standard stepwise return to play takes 6 steps, one day each that cannot begin until the player is symptom free at rest. In the most minor concussion it's a the very least 3 days to get symptom free, then another 5 days in the protochol, to play again on day 10. That's really the best case. 

 

I'm thinking that all of the time off was part of the equation, so that it looked like it might be 4-5 games. And it might be. I'm guessing they figured after our brilliant play in Toronto with Ayers in net, that we'd at least get a few points with the AHL guys. It was a risk though. And so far they figured wrong.

 

Then apparently we knew that Reimer would be at least that long or longer. Also, we knew that while Ned had a very good year last year, and is a battler, neither goalie had great numbers in the AHL. Yet we went with both of them.

 

For the record, even me, a pretty solid Lehner advocate would not have given up a first rounder for him as a rental. So if that was somehow our price while the in conference price was somehow lower, then I would not have pulled that trigger either. But it still stinks because we really needed that help.

 

I do wonder if we might have been talking to to the Rangers about a goalie too, but the perfect storm timing of Shesterkin's Car accident suddenly shut that door too. 

 

There is still time for one of Ned or Forsling to get a win and Mrazek to get back. But not much time.

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Mrazek practiced today

Quote

 

 

Brind'Amour on Mrazek: "That's the first step in getting him back, and he looked pretty good. Hopefully we'll have a good report tomorrow on how he did, get him up to speed as fast as we can and get him into a game.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, OBXer said:

Mrazek practiced today

 

If he remains symptom free after practice he could be close. Possibly even the game after this one.

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The season is a marathon.  We had a great first 13 miles, average 14-17 and the last 3 miles have been crap.  The good thing is we got about 6 more miles to go and the beginning of the race put us in the position that the last 3 miles didn't kill all the good work dead.  We can finish strong and we are in.

 

Now, the last 5 games inspire no confidence whatsoever results-wise, but if they figure it out we should be OK.  And if we finish strong, we'll be hot going in, which is what you want.

 

If I had to bet though I think I would bet against.  Losing Pesce and Dougie and Petey and Jimmy are 4 guys we could not afford to lose.

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IIRC DW came out the day after Mrazek and Reimer were injured and said we would call up Ned and Forsberg and would not trade for a goalie. There may have been other options beside Lehner for an NHL goalie with more pedestrian numbers, but at least not an AHL goalie thrown into the pressure of the playoff scramble. DW said we would not pursue rentals at the deadline and Trocheck and Skjei proved him right. Not sure what he was thinking trading for an injured UFA. Having said that, we already have 2 average NHL goalies with a year left on their contracts. Short of Lehner, I don’t think anyone they picked up would have been an improvement going forward, and since we could not sign Lehner last year, I suspect Waddell knew he would just be a rental. I guess Chicago wanted too much for a goalie who at best gets into the playoffs as WC1 or 2, then walks as a UFA. I hope there is a plan to bring in a true #1 next year somehow, and trade one of Reimer or Mrazek. If so, maybe bringing another goalie in now muddles the longer term plan. Who knows.

 

The way the rest of the team has played the last 4 games, I’m not sure having Lehner in goal would have made a difference.

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11 minutes ago, bluedevilcane said:

 

 

The way the rest of the team has played the last 4 games, I’m not sure having Lehner in goal would have made a difference.

Agree!!   This team has a lot of issues right now and imo the goalie position is the least of them.... 

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I was really hoping to break the streak of failing to make the playoffs in back-to-back years (since 2001-2002, and still counting, based on the way the team looks).  

 

 

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9 hours ago, thickburglar said:

I disagree about Gardiner. Maybe the 4 years was a gamble but 4 mil for him was CHEAP at the time with how high expectations for him were. de Haan is a 4.5 mil cap hit for Chicago and Faulk is 6.25 mil to compare 

First of all, what Gardiner and Faulk have in common is that both of them were on the trading block for 2-3 years with no takers.  The Canes did well to get an asset back in return for Faulk's last season under contract.  Gardiner never was traded, and no other teams were racing the Canes to sign him in free agency.  Fleury had paid his dues.  Their 3 LH defensemen should have been Slavin, Edmundson, and Fleury, with Bean in the hole.  The RH defenders would have been Hamilton, Pesce, and TVR, with McKeown and Priskie in reserve.  There was no need to spend $4+M per year for 4 years;  for that matter for 1 year.

 

Hamilton's injury was a bummer, but not insurmountable.  Pesce's injury was the nail in the coffin.  Trust me, the fat lady started singing that night.  It would be nice to see what they have in a few of the guys such as Bean, McKeown, and Geekie before the season ends to help them bridge the gap to the future.

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3 minutes ago, cclifford10 said:

 

I didn't notice anybody hurt...

Maybe Rod’s finally gonna bench someone’s *edit*!

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Mentioned in the GDT, but I think Geekie is playing exclusively center. While he could just be an extra, if he's going to play the logical place would be for Marinook. Then again, Marty could easily slide over to wing if a winger is out. I am interested to see Geekie. He is our most ready AHL forward that is also a higher end prospect, after the dust cleared on all of the trades. 

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1 hour ago, remkin said:

Mentioned in the GDT, but I think Geekie is playing exclusively center. While he could just be an extra, if he's going to play the logical place would be for Marinook. Then again, Marty could easily slide over to wing if a winger is out. I am interested to see Geekie. He is our most ready AHL forward that is also a higher end prospect, after the dust cleared on all of the trades. 

While there may be some value from watching the game from the press box, I hope they throw him into some game action.  They have cleaned house as far as prospects go, and there will be plenty of room to sign some college guys such as Cotton and Drury, and look forward to Bokk and the picks from this year's draft.

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2 hours ago, AWACSooner said:

Maybe Rod’s finally gonna bench someone’s *edit*!

looked  like  Marty might of gotten hurt  during the game   , if not then maybe Dzingle   will  step down .  

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I came into the game late but it looked like Trochet played with a physical edge.   Did I just see 1 play where he did or did anyone else notice?

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