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In Season Talk 2019-20

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I look at Bean as an upgrade over  TVR    and Gardiner ,    as for  right  hand defense   , Just from what i have seen of Joey Keane   he seems like  a huge upgrade over    Edmundson . 

Edited by Canesfanforever
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23 minutes ago, Canesfanforever said:

he seems like  a huge upgrade over    Edmundson

Really?  I get the beef with Gardiner-         BUT,What exactly is this based on  for Edmundson, his stats look fine.  If you intend to tag him with bone head plays leaving the goalie vulnerable he would hardly be the only target.  How are Joeys NHL stats?

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Having watched a lot of both Forsberg and Ned at Charlotte, my personal opinion was that Ned was the better of the two, not by a lot, but also not in doubt to my completely untrained eyes.  Performances seemed pretty similar with the Canes so I guess we'll see.  I'm rooting for all of them!  For what it's worth too, I will be very disappointed if we don't give Bean a chance to succeed at the NHL level before we run him off like so many others over the last 12 months.  He's solid and has good offensive game for a defensemen, definitely looks the part.

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1 hour ago, Canesfanforever said:

I look at Bean and an upgrade over  TVR    and Gardiner ,    as for  right  hand defense   , Just from what i have seen of Joey Keane   he seems like  a huge upgrade over    Edmundson . 

Edmundson is left handed. Vatanen is a righty but it sounds like he'll be out for more of March so we're really needing that additional RHD now. Not that these guys can't overcome playing on the off-side but you could probably find a stat showing playing on the off-side lends itself to more turnovers. 

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6 minutes ago, cc said:

Really?  I get the beef with Gardiner-         BUT,What exactly is this based on  for Edmundson, his stats look fine.  If you intend to tag him with bone head plays leaving the goalie vulnerable he would hardly be the only target.  How are Joeys NHL stats?

No stats on Keane  yet obviously .    I would  look for his  puck  movement ,  defensive  play in front of the net  and   his hockey iq and lastly his skating .   Keane also has great  shooting hands too .    I want to say  he might need another year or 2  before i feel comfortable  dressing  Keane yet in  a canes uniform  but the potential is  there   .   I just want  to see  Keane put on a little more weight  and work  on his endurance  for the pace of the nhl .  

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7 minutes ago, thickburglar said:

Edmundson is left handed. Vatanen is a righty but it sounds like he'll be out for more of March so we're really needing that additional RHD now. Not that these guys can't overcome playing on the off-side but you could probably find a stat showing playing on the off-side lends itself to more turnovers. 

Currently   There is no other option  as of yet .    and yes i know edmundson is a lefty ,  all the canes seem to have at the moment on defense with Hamy and pesc  out .

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3 hours ago, legend-1 said:

Forsberg looks better imo and his contract probably finishes it off.

 

The biggest difference I see is rebound control.  

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The big picture on draft and develop must also take into account the odds. Even really good draft and develop teams miss WAY more than they hit. If one looks at the drafts of even say Detroit in the last 10-15 years of their playoff streak, they had years of entire draft misses. Some teams have been better drafters than others, but the vast majority of players in each draft year will be NHL busts. One 50% of first rounders end up with fairly long NHL careers (200 games), and 25% of second rounders, and 12.5% of all players drafted in round 3 or later. 

 

So depth can be measured by how may good chances you have in your system, and by how ready the ones closest to the NHL are. 

 

But there are also confounders to the drafting success picture. And one of those is how good your team is, and how willing your brass is to call guys up, and how many injuries you have and if you are in a playoff hunt, and even the expansion draft. I think coaches are particularly not thrilled about playing inexperienced guys in key roles, especially on defense or in goal, but even in top 9 roles. Brind'Amour is more with the rule than against it. While he has shown willingness to occasionally give a forward call up top 9 minutes, he slow played Fluery like he was terrible. Fleury has shown, IMO, that he should have played more before now. 

 

Brind'Amour seems to have a lot of sway over TD, uh, the committee. He does not like rolling out D men with low or no NHL games so, the committee goes out and gets CDH, then trades him and gets Gardiner. And when we lose a couple of D men we trade for two more rather than call up Bean or McKeown. This may end up being the best move, but it doesn't mean McKeown couldn't play any more than Geekie couldn't pot two goals and an assist when he finally got called up. 

 

I'll add a bit more in my next post, but I think we ended up trading guys who had a decent upside, but hadn't shown the NHL thing that were ahead of Geekie, and that we overall did not trade out our best long term prospects at all, but we shifted them to younger guys. We did trade our extra first rounder, but we got a first rounder back (Skjei) who is already NHL developed and still have our highest first round pick and two second rounders. 

 

Also, Svechnikov and Necas and Fleury are no longer prospects, but were drafted by us and playing in the NHL. So not in Charlotte or in the prospect pool.

 

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The AHL players we've voluntarily* traded to date, are IMO, not elite NHL prospects with the possible exception of Gauthier, but he returned a similarly talented prospect. 

 

Roy is playing in Vegas and may yet have a nice career, he is on a 27 point projected pace, which is solid. He's probably the best of them. But time will tell if he's more than that. (We got Haula for him, who we flipped with other prospects to get Trocheck). 

 

Zykov, Kuok, Louistarinen, Saarela? I'm not betting on lots of NHL points from them. Priskie. (Also flipped to get Trocheck) has upside. Much was made of him and he could still be very good, but I've cautioned that late breaking NCAA seniors are far more hit and miss than some other groups. (Adam Fox, for instance was a standout from his Freshman year on). I'd have liked to have seen more from Priskie, but the trade for Keane, and with Honka in the system, he was expendable. Speaking of Fox, I lamented his loss, he was a big one. But we did not trade him willingly, and at least got two second rounders for him. Cliff Pu. Julien Gauthier*. Those are the guys we've traded recently. 

 

*IMO outside of the forced trade of Fox, Gauthier is the only prospect with potentially big upside, that we traded. We'll see, but that's my opinion. I don't know enough about Joey Keane yet to opine on him, but scouting reports and rankings suggest his upside is at least as high as Gauthier. He's no slouch. He was an AHL All Star his rookie year as a 20 year old. Chase Priskie did it as a 23 year old. Keane is at least a fair trade for Gauthier at this point, but just deferred. I'm guessing in addition to the waivers thing it might also factor into the expansion draft. 

 

But it is who we did not trade that matters most. Had we traded any of Suzuki, Rees, Puistola, Bokk, Honka, Kotchetkov, Drury, Bean or yes, one Morgan Geekie, I'd have been pretty bummed out. They are all potentially high end prospects. Then we kept Ned, and McKeown also. While I'm not sure how high end his upside is, Steve Lorentz is on a 29G/60 point projection in Charlotte and +20 to boot.

 

I will tell you this. We did gut Charlotte. Because all of those guys we traded were good AHL players. But our pool is still rich. IMO.

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22 minutes ago, caniac-1-1 said:

The biggest difference I see is rebound control.  

I like Forsberg's speed in the crease, he gets where he wants to be and fast. 

Ned though at least last game had a couple blowouts while trying to butterfly push which could have been a skate blade issue and a couple of times while going post to post while the play was behind him he wound up mostly inside the goal? Then after attaching himself to the post like he was supposed to be was slouched. Svech is gonna have to teach him what happens to slouchers on the post.

 

Then you get into things I'm not sure if he can fix, overcoming his height. 2nd goal he was at a huge disadvantage vs other goalies because he couldn't see it. So many goalies are 3-4 inches taller then him and could look over the screen.

 

Now to give Ned some credit, I like his hand eye, his hands are fast. That could atone for the stuff he can't help. Labeled slap shot just inside the shortside bar, I thought he was off positionally and all of a sudden he whipped that blocker up to the top corner of the goal.

 

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Overall, I thought Ned and Forsberg played about evenly. Both were hung out to dry more than once, both made some great saves, and probably had a few they would like back. I don’t think either of them singlehandedly cost us a game. I wonder if Forsberg’s much larger number of NHL starts were the deciding factor? Ned will get regular work in Charlotte, so if Forsberg has a bad game, he can come right back. Wonder how much longer on Reimer?

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I honestly believe  that Ned   just needs more time in the nhl   for his development to improve and maybe next season he will get  time in   to become better in net .    but  as for Forsberg ,   he seems capable  now for the job of being a back up in the nhl .  granted  his  showing  is nothing to be amazed at   but  just his size alone   and if given the time now to be in the crease could help his play  with the right goalie coach of course   he could be    a decent backup .  

 

Both  are not  franchise  goalies in potential  unfortunately  .   With  Ned  he might just be a journey man goalie  .   As for Forsberg    just a  decent backup   . 

 

How is Kochetkov doing ?

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We have 81 points now.  
 

if we can get 80% of the points in the 5 games against teams we should beat ( 2 x Devils, 2 x Sabres, Ott), then we would need 9 points in the other 8 remaining games to get into the playoffs with 98 points.the other 8 are 3 x Pitt, 2 x Boston, Isles, BJs, and Blues. 8 of the last 14 are at home although we have 19 wins at home and away.

 

Very doable. Got to get 60 minute efforts nightly. A 60% point grab the rest of the way.

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I am not up on all contracts and such so asking, isn't Ned signed to a NHL contract next year? I thought I read it was a two-year this year and NHL next.

 

Thanks!!

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4 minutes ago, Caniac5 said:

I am not up on all contracts and such so asking, isn't Ned signed to a NHL contract next year? I thought I read it was a two-year this year and NHL next.

 

Thanks!!

Yes he is on a one way deal next season 

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Just now, Canesfanforever said:

I think  maybe  why  the sat line is kinda done is because teams   are being shown video  and how to shut it down . 

Shutting down one enables another.  All good.(If you have another)

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1 hour ago, Canesfanforever said:

I think  maybe  why  the sat line is kinda done is because teams   are being shown video  and how to shut it down . 

 

They better change movies and start watching the Geek Show film 😁

 

I think the SAT line will be fine

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On 3/9/2020 at 7:56 PM, Canesfanforever said:

Both  are not  franchise  goalies in potential  unfortunately  .   With  Ned  he might just be a journey man goalie  .   As for Forsberg    just a  decent backup   . 

The great majority of franchise goalies were drafted by their team. I mean that is the definition of franchise player obviously. I remember a Section 328 podcast that listed all of them and it was a whole lot. Currently of the top 10 goalies this season, 7 were drafted by their current team. The exceptions are Rask (picked by Toronto but immediately traded to BOS), Andersen, and Fleury. Then there still other guys out of the top 10 like Quick, Murray, and Rinne. We have not drafted a goalie like that yet but we have two second rounders in Ned and Kotchektov where time will tell. Best case for us with Ned is a late bloomer situation like Binnington (drafted by STL in 2011), but I'm not a good enough judge of goalie talent to say. 

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Too bad we don’t have team toughness instead (mostly) just a group of shove and hold guys; Svech getting leveled near the end of the Wings game and nobody dropped the mitts. Saw Boston/Tampa game earlier between two heavyweight teams that didn’t give an inch fought every time a cheap *edit* got leveled against one of their guys - and there were a lot. Just like the Blues play. Heavy teams have a better chance to go deep. Finals last season between Blues/Bruins proved that after the Bruins bounced the Canes in 4. 

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4 hours ago, raleighcaniac said:

Too bad we don’t have team toughness instead (mostly) just a group of shove and hold guys; Svech getting leveled near the end of the Wings game and nobody dropped the mitts. Saw Boston/Tampa game earlier between two heavyweight teams that didn’t give an inch fought every time a cheap *edit* got leveled against one of their guys - and there were a lot. Just like the Blues play. Heavy teams have a better chance to go deep. Finals last season between Blues/Bruins proved that after the Bruins bounced the Canes in 4. 

Canes proved to the world  that they could hold their own against 1 heavy team in the capitals .    and was capable  of beating a trap team in the islanders .   Bruins  size wise is no more bigger than Carolina really  , it's just a way of playing the game  and Any time carolina went on  the advantage boston would  take a stupid penalty  and  when carolina went on the pp   they would get shut down  , and because of that  carolina  got discouraged  and brind'amour  did  NOTHING  to fix it .   cause he was a rookie coach .  

 

The canes need to learn how to not get discouraged   and keep focus on the game at hand .   Playoffs tend to be  prime real estate for  hot goalies to  do their thing .   The Canes will learn this in time  but due to inexperience   it was bound to happen  be it in the 1st round or cup finals . 

Edited by Canesfanforever

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20 hours ago, Canesfanforever said:

Canes proved to the world  that they could hold their own against 1 heavy team in the capitals .    and was capable  of beating a trap team in the islanders .   Bruins  size wise is no more bigger than Carolina really  ,  

Patrice Bergeron dropped the gloves and duked it with some Tampa player after a Bruin got hacked. That’s team toughness shown by a top end skill player.  Tripp is running his mouth when he talks about the Canes sticking up for one another. Pushing, shoving and tying up a player who levels our guy is not tough. It’s laughable reading some posts about letting Edmundson go. He’s exactly the type of toughness the Canes need more of. We played and beat one heavy team the Caps last playoffs then had zero left in the tank to play another heavy team (Bruins) who ran us out the rink before we would have played the 3rd heavy team, the Blues. Canes just don’t play a physical or mildly intimidating game and it shows when they do their ‘sticking up’ for one of the guys. It’s a missing ingredient. 

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