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In Season Talk 2019-20

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15 minutes ago, remkin said:

The uproar for me would be if it was Toronto winning the lottery. In fact, I'm not sure what would happen exactly. Since we get the best of the two picks, if it's down to ours this year or Toronto's next year? No way to know which is the better pick until next year's draft, but can't wait for that either since someone has to pick this year. :letssee:. Am I missing something on that?

 

If Toronto wins the lottery they retain their pick, which I'm pretty sure means that Rangers would get ours this year.  I'd bet that the actual terms with NY translate to "lower" as relates to draft order this year, not "worse" from a qualitative perspective that could span years. 

 

Yeah, Toronto winning the lottery would really suck, leaving us with no 1st round pick this year.  But what if the Canes won it?  Can you imagine adding Lafreniere to this young Canes team?

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5 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

 

Yeah, Toronto winning the lottery would really suck, leaving us with no 1st round pick this year.  But what if the Canes won it?  Can you imagine adding Lafreniere to this young Canes team?

This is where the joy meter gets tricky. No question for the long term good, we're better off to win the lottery if we don't win the cup. But that would also mean a very early exit. Still, better overall. 

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5 minutes ago, remkin said:

This is where the joy meter gets tricky. No question for the long term good, we're better off to win the lottery if we don't win the cup. But that would also mean a very early exit. Still, better overall. 

 

With our young core, that would immediately position us over the next decade similarly to how the Pens and Hawks were in the recent past, imo.

:winner:

Edited by LakeLivin
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4 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

 

With our young core, that would immediately position us over the next decade similarly to how the Pens and Hawks were in the recent past.

:winner:

Agree. Only a cup win would be superior really. And the odds of that? Pretty slim. 

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50 minutes ago, remkin said:

Agree. Only a cup win would be superior really. And the odds of that? Pretty slim. 

 

A lot better than our odds of getting Lafreniere, lol.  Let's say you balance our better record against the Rangers recent domination of us and go with 50-50 odds for our play-in series.  Right now, that gives us an overall chance at the number 1 pick of 1.5%.  Actually, it's a bit less once you factor in the probability of Toronto falling into a top 10 draft slot, which would mean we wouldn't get to keep the 1OA even if we won it.  Wouldn't that be a major kick in the cods!   

Edited by LakeLivin

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Key paragraph:

Quote

"This extension gives us the flexibility and time to make sure we make the best long-term decision for the Hurricanes and the Triangle -- whether that means a major renovation, development around this arena or a new arena," said Tom Dundon, chief executive officer, owner and governor of the Carolina Hurricanes. "We have a great place to play, but there are things we need to address based on the age of the facility, the arena's amenities and the area around the building."

 

The ESA/RBC/PNC has been a first class facility for this area.  Time moves on, other people get newer shiny objects.  30 years will be a long time these days, which is a shame, because until the last 25 years or so, these facilities had life spans measured in half or full centuries.  Now with all the money and expectations of highly paid athletes, things change.  (Pay may not even matter, same has happened on college.)

 

I expect either a massive remodel or new arena will have to happen to make Tom happy.  Heck, I don't suspect it, I know it.  Just read his quote.

Edited by wxray1

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We had a couple conspiracy theorists around here that were more or less convinced Dundon would be moving the team to Houston as soon as he could.  Anyone want to own up?  :Oops:

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55 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

We had a couple conspiracy theorists around here that were more or less convinced Dundon would be moving the team to Houston as soon as he could.  Anyone want to own up?  :Oops:

It certainly crossed my mind

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1 hour ago, LakeLivin said:

We had a couple conspiracy theorists around here that were more or less convinced Dundon would be moving the team to Houston as soon as he could.  Anyone want to own up?  :Oops:

 

It crossed my mind too.

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"... but there are things we need to address ... and the area around the building."

 

Am I the only one who likes the arena being out there in the weeds?  Tom wants development around the building.  I think that is going to be difficult unless something happens with NC State.  Heck, just North NC state is building a whole new complex.

 

Anyway, it is really convenient for us right now.  But the kids hate it.  If Tom gets his new arena downtown, then the kids will be happy and I can watch from my easy chair.  Since that is 10 years off, I think it is all good.  :)

 

But DO expect him to start making a lot of noise about this soon, probably once the virus settles down.

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2 hours ago, wxray1 said:

 

Am I the only one who likes the arena being out there in the weeds?  Tom wants development around the building.  I think that is going to be difficult unless something happens with NC State.  Heck, just North NC state is building a whole new complex.

 

Anyway, it is really convenient for us right now.  But the kids hate it.  If Tom gets his new arena downtown, then the kids will be happy and I can watch from my easy chair.  Since that is 10 years off, I think it is all good.  :)

 

But DO expect him to start making a lot of noise about this soon, probably once the virus settles down.

I'm  fine where it is...pretty easy access from all area's. Downtown access would have to change drastically for reasonable access. I'll probably be in the recliner as well when an arena would be available downtown.

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6 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

We had a couple conspiracy theorists around here that were more or less convinced Dundon would be moving the team to Houston as soon as he could.  Anyone want to own up?  :Oops:

 

I will. I floated the idea, along with a couple others whom I don't remember at this moment (and I'm not going to go searching the forums to out them).

 

In light of the current info, it wasn't a possibility. In the future? TommyD says he wants a new arena (or a massive remodel) in the future. If he doesn't get it? Yeah, I could see a move. 

 

Don't appreciate the "oops!" emoji, though. That's a clear swipe at other posters, Lake. I didn't think that was allowed - at least, not 'til the Covid-19 thread blew up.

 

 

Edited by JonKerfoot
Typo

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3 hours ago, wxray1 said:

Am I the only one who likes the arena being out there in the weeds?

 

No.  Most long time fans, IMO, have to tailgate, and not in a parking lot in some downtown.  It's the culture of the area. Try arguing with that, Tom.

 

 

 

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Having an arena downtown would be horrible and a deterrent to fans.  Downtown Raleigh is stressful enough getting around in as is.  Move the arena down town and kiss half the season ticket holder base goodbye.

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47 minutes ago, JonKerfoot said:

 

I will. I floated the idea, along with a couple others whom I don't remember at this moment (and I'm not going to go searching the forums to out them).

 

In light of the current info, it wasn't a possibility. In the future? TommyD says he wants a new arena (or a massive remodel) in the future. If he doesn't get it? Yeah, I could see a move. 

 

Don't appreciate the "oops!" emoji, though. That's a clear swipe at other posters, Lake. I didn't think that was allowed - at least, not 'til the Covid-19 thread blew up.

 

Sorry it came across that way to you Jon.  The "oops!" emoji was actually meant to make the post a bit more lighthearted. That's one of the problems with online communication, it's often open to different interpretations. 

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On 5/28/2020 at 7:39 PM, bluedevil58 said:

Having an arena downtown would be horrible and a deterrent to fans.  Downtown Raleigh is stressful enough getting around in as is.  Move the arena down town and kiss half the season ticket holder base goodbye.

"Deterrent to fans" should really read bd58, to most "long term" fans, but more specially, to those coming from outside the Raleigh area which presents the problem of parking. I could see a shift, if the arena relocation occurs, to a more casual fan base which would attract those whom would not have to negotiate for parking, thus would be inclined to "drop in" as an option to a night's entertainment.

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On 5/28/2020 at 1:15 PM, LakeLivin said:

We had a couple conspiracy theorists around here that were more or less convinced Dundon would be moving the team to Houston as soon as he could.  Anyone want to own up?  :Oops:

I wasn't concerned earlier, but I was surprised by some of the points made in the negotiation ...

 

An agreement by the Hurricanes not to relocate the franchise during the current lease.

The Hurricanes to receive lease termination rights on the lease as of June 30, 2024.

A guarantee by the Hurricanes that their player payroll be above the midpoint of the NHL salary cap each year.

An agreement the authority will pay 50 percent of the arena operating costs each year, up to $3.885 million.

A reduction of the rent for fiscal 2020 of $1.78 million and no rent in following years.

 

Why would the Centennial Authority be concerned with the Hurricanes spending past the salary cap midpoint, for example.  I guess

you want to get everything in writing.  Still, it seemed strange.  I can't imagine the Canes being concerned about NC State nuances.

 

And as far as the lease itself ... for years, it seemed the Canes had what was considered a "good lease".  I had read where it was considered

a model lease because it was so good.  Now, it turns out that was not the case ... 

 

“One of our goals was to get the Hurricanes to be in an average lease situation in the NHL,” authority chairman Tom McCormick said in an interview Thursday. “And they clearly had one of the worst leases in the league. Their cost-to-occupy and so forth were higher than they should be.”

 

is that just because 20 years have passed?  Or however long the past lease was in effect.


 

 

Edited by MidnightAngel

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10 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

"Deterrent to fans" should really read bd58, to most "long term" fans, but more specially, to those coming from outside the Raleigh area which presents the problem of parking. I could see a shift, if the arena relocation occurs, to a more casual fan base which would attract those whom would not have to negotiate for parking, thus would be inclined to "drop in" as an option to a night's entertainment.

 

Not sure of the stats but if you move the arena from current location it is now farther away from Durham, Chapel Hill, and everything west.  However you are now closer to Garner, and Johnston county and everything east.  Pretty sure there is more population on the Durham side than Garner side.  Could be wrong though.

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1 hour ago, MidnightAngel said:

I wasn't concerned earlier, but I was surprised by some of the points made in the negotiation ...

 

An agreement by the Hurricanes not to relocate the franchise during the current lease.

The Hurricanes to receive lease termination rights on the lease as of June 30, 2024.

A guarantee by the Hurricanes that their player payroll be above the midpoint of the NHL salary cap each year.

An agreement the authority will pay 50 percent of the arena operating costs each year, up to $3.885 million.

A reduction of the rent for fiscal 2020 of $1.78 million and no rent in following years.

 

Why would the Centennial Authority be concerned with the Hurricanes spending past the salary cap midpoint, for example.  I guess

you want to get everything in writing.  Still, it seemed strange.  I can't imagine the Canes being concerned about NC State nuances.

 

And as far as the lease itself ... for years, it seemed the Canes had what was considered a "good lease".  I had read where it was considered

a model lease because it was so good.  Now, it turns out that was not the case ... 

 

“One of our goals was to get the Hurricanes to be in an average lease situation in the NHL,” authority chairman Tom McCormick said in an interview Thursday. “And they clearly had one of the worst leases in the league. Their cost-to-occupy and so forth were higher than they should be.”

 

is that just because 20 years have passed?  Or however long the past lease was in effect.


 

 

Good stuff!  I didn't see this.  Where was this revealed?

 

As for the lease, I always got a feeling that inside things weren't as good as presented outside.  When JR and the Authority nearly went to blows a few years ago over NC BB dates, you knew the shine on that romance had worn off.  We also got a little insight when Tom wanted to update the scoreboard.  The Authority basically went into old southern "gentleman" mode, you know: "Now hold on there, young 'un.  Do you know who is running this show?  Just settle down there, son."

Edited by wxray1

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5 hours ago, bluedevil58 said:

 

Not sure of the stats but if you move the arena from current location it is now farther away from Durham, Chapel Hill, and everything west.  However you are now closer to Garner, and Johnston county and everything east.  Pretty sure there is more population on the Durham side than Garner side.  Could be wrong though.

Not doubting that at all bd58, but consider the population mix of those 2 areas. In the center of town puts the arena squarely in the lap of those populating that area, and the NC State campus still. That's very convenient for a "pop in" visit. Where it is now, it takes a bit of a drive sometimes thru horrendous traffic(my son lives in Durham and he'll vouch for that). Also, think of the peoples' habits from that Chapel Hill/Durham side, and aside from the students, many (not all) in those 2 areas seek more sophisticated entertainment. But the argument is moot as I dread a move to put the arena in town, and in my case, if that came about, I'd seriously consider giving up my 20 yr STH account.

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I come to games from Durham, and have been doing so since 06-07. Just in the last 2 or 3 years, the commute through NC147 and     I-40 Has become a lot more difficult. Having to negotiate my way farther into downtown Raleigh would be a deal breaker for me. But I’m also in the category of those who might be retiring to the armchair by 2029.I only do 11 games anyway. I know precious few Canes fans in Durham (actually none that attend games), so Durham probably isn’t much of a factor. But what of Cary, Apex and other areas populated with relocated folks from hockey-centric markets? Will these folks accept a longer commute as the price for access to restaurants and bars before and after games. Also, wouldn’t parking revenue downtown go to the city, and not straight into the pockets of the Canes? It’s a lot to think about.

 

I am concerned that the lease “extension” contains a right to terminate. It looks like the Centennial Authority tried to offset that by making the terms a lot more favorable for the Canes. As for any discussion of Dundon wanting to move the team in the past, I’m not sure I ever said it, but it crossed my mind and still does. It is obvious he is a bottom line guy. Every decision he makes (Francis, Kaiton, Charlotte) supports that. Sentimentality is not a factor. When Karmanos moved the team here, he was invested in proving his decision was a good one. That is not a factor with Dundon. And truthfully, the area needs to support the team so he has no reason to move. I had misgivings about him early on, but he has not shied away from spending money to improve the team. Hopefully the increased fan support of the last couple of years will survive the COVID era.

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16 hours ago, wxray1 said:

Good stuff!  I didn't see this.  Where was this revealed?

 

As for the lease, I always got a feeling that inside things weren't as good as presented outside.  When JR and the Authority nearly went to blows a few years ago over NC BB dates, you knew the shine on that romance had worn off.  We also got a little insight when Tom wanted to update the scoreboard.  The Authority basically went into old southern "gentleman" mode, you know: "Now hold on there, young 'un.  Do you know who is running this show?  Just settle down there, son."

Apparently a riot broke out in the middle of a pandemic :)     Yes, I should have mentioned that it is on the News & Observer on-line. 

Good point about the flap a few years back over NC State blocking out too many dates and their "old south" approach.

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