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In Season Talk 2019-20

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On 7/2/2020 at 2:09 PM, top-shelf-1 said:

I just hope they change the break music and graphics. They're 15+ years old and look (and sound) like it.

Bring back Nature Boy and his Wooo shuffle across the Jumbotron. 

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1 minute ago, raleighcaniac said:

Bring back Nature Boy and his Wooo shuffle across the Jumbotron. 

Amen to that, but I'm talkin' on TV. The puck smashing through ice, the music, the two shadowy players... just old and tired.

 

How's everything in Europe?

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Bit of laugh about lard boy Waddle saying 17 of 18 re-upped for less money.  What about you Donny boy? It’s easy to talk the talk but I doubt you’re walking the walk. I also regret that this team has never had in-town ownership. TD doesn’t seem to have any emotional investment.  

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1 minute ago, top-shelf-1 said:d.

How's everything in Europe?

Good. CZ has had Covid under control for a few months now. 3 month lockdown was taken seriously. People uniformly accepted and wore masks on the governments directive unlike a country I know of, full of whiny a$$ freedom B****es. Many other EU countries same-same with doing it right.  Moving to Croatia in July so no more speaking Czech with you. Thank god for Roku/Canes. Stay safe broski. 

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1 hour ago, raleighcaniac said:

Bit of laugh about lard boy Waddle saying 17 of 18 re-upped for less money.  What about you Donny boy? It’s easy to talk the talk but I doubt you’re walking the walk. I also regret that this team has never had in-town ownership. TD doesn’t seem to have any emotional investment.  

 

I don't know if Wadell's contract was up (or if he was asked to renegotiate), but isn't he earning a lot less than most NHL GMs? Wasn't that the big controversy when TD put him in that role instead of "paying for a real GM"?

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1 hour ago, LakeLivin said:

 

I don't know if Wadell's contract was up (or if he was asked to renegotiate), but isn't he earning a lot less than most NHL GMs? Wasn't that the big controversy when TD put him in that role instead of "paying for a real GM"?

Yes.  And Roddy too.

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1 hour ago, LakeLivin said:

 

I don't know if Wadell's contract was up (or if he was asked to renegotiate), but isn't he earning a lot less than most NHL GMs? Wasn't that the big controversy when TD put him in that role instead of "paying for a real GM"?

No Waddell signed a multi year deal. TD originally didn’t understand why he couldn’t just keep paying him like a normal employee vice being under a contract.

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I'm sure Jason Shaya would be an easy target to take over for Forslund. Anything would have to be a raise....No?

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1 hour ago, raleighcaniac said:

Fair enough however I remain firmly not in Don’s corner. Bottom echelon of GMs imo. 

He / the team have gad some genius moves,  good moves and some bad ones
Genius: Nino trade, Darling trade, 2019 draft

Good: Original Mrazek signing, Marleau trade. CdH signing and the trade. Haula trade
Middle of the road: Hamilton trade, Trocheck trade (potential to get better), Skjei trade (could get better)
Bad: Gardiner deal, Not signing Lehner, not trading Ferland 

 

this off-season brought down what was a really good stretch for them. We’ll see how this off-season goes before I say he is bottom tier.

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Losing Forslund would be a major kick in the cods.  He is the soundtrack for Canes hockey.  I understand business, and that there are two sides to everything.  Dundon may not be able to match the national dollars available.

 

Sucks major

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Yeah I tend to look at this as how it applies to fans. TD came in saying he wanted to make the fan experience great. Well, one area he can only regress is losing Forslund over money. 

 

The Hockey Guy on Youtube still thinks its all about a negotiation. I don't think he has direct sources, but he does keep up with just about everything and said something like, "from everything I'm seeing it's not time to panic". 

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Recap TD’s ownership:

 

Pushed out Francis. Response: “OMG how could we, he is our franchise guy and moving the org forward. “. Yet we made the playoffs.

Pushed out Kaiton. Response: “OMG how could we, he is our voice and you can’t have Canes without Kaiton.  TD is so cheap“. Yet we preserved and are doing well as an organization

Wouldnt re-sign Ferland mid season for what he wanted. Response: “OMG how could we, I am not eating until Ferland is signed. He is the exact forward we need, TD is so cheap. “ It turned out to be a great decision.

Now he won’t give Forslund a different deal than 17 other employees. Response: “OMG how could we, he is our voice and you can’t have Canes without Forslund.  TD is so cheap“.

 

Im seeing a trend. Yet the team on the ice is 8-10 wins better. He just dropped 89 million on salaries this season plus Aho and Reimer’s signing bonuses for 20-21.  We are getting a practice ice facility that may attract FAs. And so on.  

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I disagree.  The only thing Dundon has done so far is benefit from good timing.  He is Colorado to Karmanos' Quebec.
 
We are 8-10 games better this year because of what Ron Francis did in years past.  We see what that got him.  Plus winning 2nd place (Svechnikov) in the 2018 lottery.
Not much done internally, though. It's been my experience that you don't accomplish much doing things by committee.
 
Dundon had the chance to use his money in a positive way, but he blew it with a protracted contract negotiation that forced Sebastian Aho to sign an offer sheet with Montreal in order to get an extension.  Now Aho can - and probably will - leave in 5 ... no ... 4 years now.  It's like using clorox to clean the Mona Lisa.  It's not going to end up good.
 
The potential championship window that hasn't really opened yet now may be closed in four short years.  After all, Aho is as important to this team as Crosby is to Pittsburgh and Ovechkin is to Washington.   But, like John Forslund, why should he stay?  Forslund didn't want to go off into the sunset, either.  (The beautiful, yet choking Saharan-dust cloud sunsets notwithstanding).
 
You want your team owner to be a billionaire, not a multi-millionaire, but I'm not sure if this guy is the right billionaire.

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Sure winning makes everything OK. But IMO this is different. The experience of the broadcast is it's own thing, and arguably just as important when the team itself is struggling. When it comes to GMs, it's all about winning. If we don't like the GM move, but the team wins and gets good players, all is good. With radio, Chuck was iconic, but very few people take in a game on radio. With a role player like Ferland, that's one piece of a 20 piece puzzle. But John enhances the experience, win or lose. Some business decisions are about cutting cost, but some are about maintaining the quality of your product. When one considers the valuation of an NHL team and the cost of player payroll, it is pennywise and pound foolish to lose a guy who is the conduit between the team and the fans and who is better at it than anyone there is. I can't believe that the money involved is even close to being worth losing him. 

 

I'm not saying I won't watch the games, but I'm a nutjob fan. Some will. But mainly my fan experience will drop a big notch for a few bucks and I'll be an unhappy customer. For me, losing John would be a bigger hit than most player or any GM or coach loss. GM's and players come and go all the time anyways. Broadcasters not nearly as much.

 

I'm still hoping that it's all about a negotiation, but TD has shown that he won't back down at some point, so I guess we'll have to see. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, MidnightAngel said:

The only thing Dundon has done so far is benefit from good timing.  He is Colorado to Karmanos' Quebec.

I am sorry but if you can’t see the massive changes to approach Dundon has made you ain’t been paying attention. Yes Francis helped. But that’s all.

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59 minutes ago, remkin said:

for a few bucks

How many? I am agree depending on how much we are talking about. 

Edited by cc

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25 minutes ago, cc said:

How many? I am agree depending on how much we are talking about. 

 it would be very interesting to know that, I agree.    I am assuming that as a local  brought castor even with his national exposure that he is not massively compensated, but I don't really know. 

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13 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

Recap TD’s ownership:

 

Pushed out Francis. Response: “OMG how could we, he is our franchise guy and moving the org forward. “. Yet we made the playoffs.

Pushed out Kaiton. Response: “OMG how could we, he is our voice and you can’t have Canes without Kaiton.  TD is so cheap“. Yet we preserved and are doing well as an organization

Wouldnt re-sign Ferland mid season for what he wanted. Response: “OMG how could we, I am not eating until Ferland is signed. He is the exact forward we need, TD is so cheap. “ It turned out to be a great decision.

Now he won’t give Forslund a different deal than 17 other employees. Response: “OMG how could we, he is our voice and you can’t have Canes without Forslund.  TD is so cheap“.

 

Im seeing a trend. Yet the team on the ice is 8-10 wins better. He just dropped 89 million on salaries this season plus Aho and Reimer’s signing bonuses for 20-21.  We are getting a practice ice facility that may attract FAs. And so on.  

We don't always agree, gocanes, but we do on all the above.

 

13 hours ago, remkin said:

The Hockey Guy on Youtube still thinks its all about a negotiation.

It is. Unfortunately, by going public, John has increased has chances of losing. Chuck tried it too, and that was when there was actual hockey in the offing. And lost. 

 

Until any one of us has skin in the game--and I'm talking about a whole lot more skin than buying a ticket, season or otherwise--the Canes are TD's cow. Buying it allows him to milk it any way he wants. And compared to the previous owner, I'll take this guy's teat-pulling every. Freakin'. Time.

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1 hour ago, remkin said:

Chuck was iconic ironic.

Fixed that for you. The irony: he had the job as long as he did. "BRING BACK THE RED LINE... AND GET OFF MY LAWN!!!"

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30 minutes ago, cc said:

Yes Francis helped. But that’s all.

And when he could have helped most--and had been given carte blanche to do so--he didn't. I still wonder what might have happened in 2018 if we'd he'd signed Mraz instead of letting the Flyers.

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1 hour ago, remkin said:

Some business decisions are about cutting cost, but some are about maintaining the quality of your product. When one considers the valuation of an NHL team and the cost of player payroll, it is pennywise and pound foolish to lose a guy who is the conduit between the team and the fans and who is better at it than anyone there is. I can't believe that the money involved is even close to being worth losing him. 

Sorry, but all business decisions have to also be considerate of the times. Forslund holding out under the current reality is the epitome of bad, and much as I hate to say it, selfish, decision-making on his part. "I want to work in Carolina, but I want big-time pay... regardless of whether I'm working." 

 

Sounds like something Eric Staal would say.

Edited by top-shelf-1

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11 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Sorry, but all business decisions have to also be considerate of the times. Forslund holding out under the current reality is the epitome of bad, and much as I hate to say it, selfish, decision-making on his part. "I want to work in Carolina, but I want big-time pay... regardless of whether I'm working." 

 

How much is he asking for?

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