Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
surfzone365

GDT: Carolina Hurricanes Vs Vancouver Canucks - Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 10:00 PM EST

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, wxray1 said:

Dang.  That really sucks!

 

Thanks for the quick answer, gocanes.

Sorry my brain isn’t properly functioning to type appropriately. I had to edit my post after I saw your quote.  
Staying up until 1230 and then bouncing back in the morning isn’t in the cards, anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, gocanes0506 said:

Sorry my brain isn’t properly functioning to type appropriately. I had to edit my post after I saw your quote.  
Staying up until 1230 and then bouncing back in the morning isn’t in the cards, anymore.

I got over 7 hours of sleep so I'm sharp.  I was able to interpolate, extrapolate and understand what you were trying to say by context.  Got it!  :)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

Staal is well beyond disappointing on offense this season.

Post of the thread!  He has looked flat out geriatric  this season!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say that Foegele provides more than energy and yet agreed has not developed into a finisher at the NHL level. What I mean by more than energy is that he repeatedly causes and gets chances. He makes plays, But he doesn't finish. The reason for the distinction is that he has finished over periods (playoffs) so has that upside. If he can improve that last piece, he can move to another level, that at this point I don't think say McGinn probably will.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

Post of the thread!  He has looked flat out geriatric  this season!!

There is one way to get out of the funk and he refuses to do it. Hands of stone needs to create traffic.. provide screens...get a few rebounds or create a tip.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, slapshot02 said:

There is one way to get out of the funk and he refuses to do it. Hands of stone needs to create traffic.. provide screens...get a few rebounds or create a tip.

 

Agreed. Jordan is a real disappointment so far this season. He seems much slower. Even his face-off percentage (54%) is nothing remarkable this year compared to Foegele (53%), Haula (53%), and Wallmark (52%). He lacks the drive and energy—not to mention the skill—one expects of a team captain. He looks to have acquired the attitude that Eric had the last few years he was here.   

 

Jordan always been overrated as a player and especially as a leader. I've never understood why Roddy thinks so highly of him, but it's time to put Svech back with Aho and Turbo. Put Nino with Jordan and McGinn and use them as our fourth line. Stop the illusion that Jordan is our #1 or #2 center.

 

Edited by spyglass88
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, spyglass88 said:

I've never understood why Roddy thinks so highly of him

Last night he led forwards in number of shifts, was fourth in ice time, won 19 of 28 face offs and he is really hard to play against.

 

What we aren't seeing is goal scoring or assists this season. You would expect he would put up 15 to 20 goals.

 

We shouldn't underestimate what he brings to the team but we should expect more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, spyglass88 said:

one expects of a team captain.

spyglass88, I can't agree with this statement. I mean, is a "team captain" necessarily a scorer? Now trust me, I get just as frustrated as the next guy that Jordan is scoring inept, and slow, and cannot it seems plant himself in front of the goalie, but to me, the single attribute that the "C" letter should possess is not any one particular "stat", but rather, like Brind'Amour has, an inspiring presence such that a player would run thru a wall for the guy. Now, does Jordan have that, I can't say, however I do recall just last year I believe (or was it the year prior) when he was out, something was missing? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, OBXer said:

Last night he led forwards in number of shifts, was fourth in ice time, won 19 of 28 face offs and he is really hard to play against.

 

What we aren't seeing is goal scoring or assists this season. You would expect he would put up 15 to 20 goals.

 

We shouldn't underestimate what he brings to the team but we should expect more.

 

Yes, Staal won 19 face-offs last night, but for the year he's barely over 50%. I'm not sure how you measure being "really hard to play against." Yes, Staal is a big guy, but he's never played real physical. And this year, for whatever reason, he seems to be significantly slower. Last night, I saw the opposing forward beat him to the puck more than once. One of those times occurred behind our net and almost resulted in a Vancouver goal.

 

Your shift and ice-time stats nicely support my point. Do you really think Staal should be on the ice that much, given his lackluster scoring performance, his unwillingness to go to the dirty areas to get points, and his slow play, especially when we have much more talented forwards who can score points? I understand that Staal is a defensive forward—fine, give him more defensive line mates (McGinn, Martinook, Nino) and let him center a shut-down line. But he should not be treated like a first or second line scoring center. As I've said before, if his last name was Smith rather than Staal, he'd be no more than a third or fourth line journeyman center. 

 

My main point in all this was that we should not bury our leading scorer (Svech) on a line with a center (Staal) who—as Rem pointed out above—has had one goal in 21 games and 14 goals since the beginning of last season and with a forward (Foegele) who—as Rem also pointed out—cannot finish. Play Staal to his strengths, but recognize that scoring is not one of them. 

 

Edited by spyglass88
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, spyglass88 said:

As I've said before, if his last name was Smith rather than Staal, he'd be no more than a third or fourth line center. 

 

I agree that Staal is probable a perfect 3rd line center type of player. A shut down line type of player but let me ask you.

 

Who do you see on the team that is a scoring center other than Aho? Remember Haula is hurt.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

spyglass88, I can't agree with this statement. I mean, is a "team captain" necessarily a scorer? Now trust me, I get just as frustrated as the next guy that Jordan is scoring inept, and slow, and cannot it seems plant himself in front of the goalie, but to me, the single attribute that the "C" letter should possess is not any one particular "stat", but rather, like Brind'Amour has, an inspiring presence such that a player would run thru a wall for the guy. Now, does Jordan have that, I can't say, however I do recall just last year I believe (or was it the year prior) when he was out, something was missing? 

 

Well, the vast majority of team captains are either scoring forwards or highly-skilled defensemen. I agree that having the "C" should not depend solely on stats, but what is it about Jordan to make anyone think he provides such leadership that other players want to run through a wall for him? You concede that he's inept at scoring, slow, and doesn't want to plant himself in front of the goalie (to which I must ask "why?", if so doing would help the team). What exactly does he bring to the table, except that his last name is Staal, he has a $6 million never-ending contract, and he's been here a long time? 

 

I think we made our run to the playoffs last year while he was out with an injury.

 

Let me be clear: I think Jordan should be in our top nine, but not anchoring high-scoring teammates like Svech. I'm content to leave the jury out on whether he should wear the "C."

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, OBXer said:

 

I agree that Staal is probable a perfect 3rd line center type of player. A shut down line type of player but let me ask you.

 

Who do you see on the team that is a scoring center other than Aho? Remember Haula is hurt.

 

 

 

 

That certainly is a weak point for us, due at least in some measure to our history of treating Jordan as a #1 or #2 offensive center. Right now, it would have to be Wallmark, of course, although Necas is growing ever closer to becoming a playmaking/scoring center in his own right. We need Haula back, but if he can't stay healthy, I'd like to see us trade for a #2 scoring center. We're still that one player away from being a consistent playoff team.

 

For now, I just think we'd be stronger with two solid scoring lines and slotting Jordan for a more defensive line. 

Edited by spyglass88

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, AWACSooner said:

This one stings...

 

Need to rebound against the hottest team in the league on Saturday...and that’s a HUGE undertaking 

I think getting a road point in a good effort on the road against a good team and Hot goalie should temper the grief.  But thats just me.  There is no "rebound" needed.  Just play like you did here and the results will come.  Warning: I have been accused of having a  "rose colored glasses" perspective in the past. I dig Positive Waves man.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, cc said:

Warning: I have been accused of having a  "rose colored glasses" perspective in the past.

I still wear LaRose colored ones from time to time, so it’s all good

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have Staal signed for 4 more years including this one with a full NMC. So there's that. All the more reason we need him to pick it up.

 

I love what Haula brings, but he's only signed through this year and that knee.....

 

Ryan Suzuki could be a future center but he's at least 2 years from the NHL probably, and more to be a center.

 

I do think maybe Montreal had a pretty good idea in the 2018 draft where they said we've needed centers and been unable to find one, let's just draft all centers. They reached for Kotkaniemi because he was a center, then drafted 6 MORE centers. Might be a thought next draft.

 

Anyway, if we are going to be saddled with a defense only Jordan Staal, we are going to need a legit #2 two way center (BTW in a two way center one of the "two ways" is offense, so at the moment Staal is not that.) Haula could  be re-signed, but it needs to be a fair deal and the knee is an issue. I am not convinced that Wallmark is a legti #2 center. We're getting by because we have Aho, and some seriously good wingers and offense producing D men, but it is a hidden issue, and could become a longer term one.

 

I'm on record for moving Necas there sooner than later, but right now, we need Haula to get back in there.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, AWACSooner said:

Thanks JR

We made a lot of noise at the time.  The only one happy about the length of term seemed to be JR and J.  Can't believe JR went that long.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, wxray1 said:

We made a lot of noise at the time.  The only one happy about the length of term seemed to be JR and J.  Can't believe JR went that long.

Look at all the other contracts he saddled us with...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, remkin said:

We have Staal signed for 4 more years including this one with a full NMC.

 

 

Dude's going to be using his stick as a cane by the end of that contract.  Actually i think i've already seen him do it a time or two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re: Jordan. The best C we ever had awarded Jordan that letter, so I think he (Rod) knows something about what it takes to be captain. Yes Jordan needs to score more, and that is concerning. But do remember he takes the majority of the defensive zone draws and is always the first center out on the PK, which with our team is an important job. If Haula can get his knee healthy, he should clearly center the second line, and if we don’t put Svech with Aho, he would play with Haula I hope. I’m not sure putting him with Wallmark or any of our rotating 4th line centers would be an improvement on playing with Staal.

 

As to the contract, I’m 99.9% sure Pittsburgh offered him the exact same deal (obviously when JR was here) and he turned it down to play out his contract and come here to play with Eric. Pittsburgh then traded him here to get some return, and JR simply gave him the same contract Pittsburgh had offered him. At the time it looked like a good move - he’d had a couple stretches where he stepped in for Sid or Malkin and was a respectable 2nd line center. His story is a cautionary tale about handing long term contracts. Last year he had 11 goals in about 50 games. At this rate, he won’t score 11 in 82 games. Jordan’s best role would be centering a shut down 3rd line, that has at least a little offensive upside. 10-15 goals in that role plus his other attributes would be a decent return from him. If he is physically cratering due to age this could get ugly in a season or two. Rod fell off so badly his last year he ended his career on the fourth line and I’m afraid Jordan will do the same (at $6 million per season).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, bluedevilcane said:

Re: Jordan. The best C we ever had awarded Jordan that letter, so I think he (Rod) knows something about what it takes to be captain. Yes Jordan needs to score more, and that is concerning. But do remember he takes the majority of the defensive zone draws and is always the first center out on the PK, which with our team is an important job. If Haula can get his knee healthy, he should clearly center the second line, and if we don’t put Svech with Aho, he would play with Haula I hope. I’m not sure putting him with Wallmark or any of our rotating 4th line centers would be an improvement on playing with Staal.

 

Good point. Let's hope that is the case.

 

My worry is that Jordan was the default choice based on being older, more experienced, and one of our highest-paid, longest-tenured players, and not necessarily on having what it takes to be captain. We are a very young team and nobody else is an obvious heir apparent to JWilly. Faulk's gone, Aho and Slavin are still young and not quite established (although Slavin is the one standing at the exit patting everyone as they leave the ice after each game), and Martinook, Nino, and Dougie all have a relatively short tenure with the team. I think Rod would have had to give a good reason for not selecting Jordan and he didn't have one.

 

Pair Svech with line mates that compliment his offensive skill level. Quit trying to fit a round peg into a square hole and let Jordan be Jordan—a strong defensive third-line center who doesn't have to score much to be valuable to the team.     

 

Edited by spyglass88

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you wxray for reminding us about our collective mindset "what have you done for me lately". And I am front and center among you because at the draft party I probably cheered the loudest when that trade was announced in 2012. Retrospective analysis is certainly inerrant, isn't it? bluedevilcane's point above is certainly on point, as are the concerns voiced by spyglass et al, but in the past, Jordan like several others (looking at you Aho) come out of the gates slowly.  I'm hoping he like the others warms up during the 2nd half of the season?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, wxray1 said:

Luckily, we have a record of what we all thought.  I present to you below snippets of what ya'll said in 2012 about J. Staal.  Every quote is from a frequent poster, except one, added for spice. 

Guess your quote.  :)

 

Original thread:

 

 

I'm thinking that old thread may be just a bit humbling to several members on here.  In retrospect, it's interesting to note that the "negative" take from the non-Canes-fan guy who lived down the road from the Staal's sod farm and who said he'd followed Jordan his whole career may well have been the most accurate about what to expect from J Staal going forward.

 

disclaimer: I'm not being critical of anyone's take at that point; it was before I started actively following the Canes, so I wasn't "at risk" of giving an opinion that could come back to haunt me.  

Edited by LakeLivin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...