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Williams coming back!!!! 1 year 700k and 1.3 million in performance bonus

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1 hour ago, remkin said:

I'm not sure I understand what "kind of thinking" your talking about. I like J Williams being back so we don't disagree. I also agree that J Willy brings great leadership in the playoffs. No disagreement. The only disagreement would be projecting the team is incapable of winning a first round series without him. I'd point out that everyone on this team except a couple now have some good playoff experience. He will help, but they are not incapable without him. A lot of the team's struggles of late have been spotty goaltending and Williams can't help that. Still, I'm down with it.

 

My point was that we have 12 forwards right now who don't really deserve to sit, but unless we go with 13 forwards and 5 D, someone will need to sit. I think it should be a bit of a rotation. That's really the point of that post. Do you disagree? Should Nino just not see the ice for 10 games? Or McGinn? That's really the question of that post.

Playoff hockey is a 100% different animal than regular season.  Right now the Canes are skating into the playoff picture as one of the bottom feeders, and thus would be scheduled to play the #1 or 2 seed.  Without some additional toughness and leadership, I was pessimistic about their chances of winning.  My outlook has trended towards optimism since JW has decided to make a final run.  JW himself may need a breather to sit out a game here and there, and whether it's an injured player (see Haula) to rest his knee, or rotating out Nino, Martinook, Necas, or McGinn, the team is better today than it was at this time yesterday.

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2 hours ago, remkin said:

So, first the deal. It is for a half of a year and the pay is commensurate with that. If he hits all of his bonuses $2M, would be like a $4M deal for a full year. But some of the bonuses may not be ridiculous, I guess we'll have to wait on the details. Sara Civ points out Correy Perry's bonuses which incllude $100K if the team goes three rounds in the playoffs, and $150K for a cup, and the player plays at least 50% of the games. I assume if he doesn't hit the bonuses, they don't count on our cap for next year. So if we have some legit bonuses, we only pay if he contributes. It seems like a pretty fair deal.

 Rem, trying to parse what you mean by "ridiculous."  I see it two ways. 

 

Both of these are ridiculous:

  • Play 10 games and get $500k (easy ridiculous)
  • Win the Stanley Cup and get $100k (difficult ridiculous)

 

Which way to do you mean?

 

Edit: the above are FICTIONAL for example purposes only.  Do not read that these are real in any way.

Edited by wxray1

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It is believed that J Williams will practice about 2 weeks because playing.  Maybe we see an uptick in play for the next 2 weeks because guys don’t want to sit.

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Williams brings to the table something that not many people have.   Natural leadership skills that only a few players are gifted with.   Martinook kind of has that "something" that is just as natural as breathing air.   Jordan Staal does not have the leadership qualities needed at this level.   He is way too low keyed.   Fortunately these men are all mature enough that as a group the true leaders will be followed regardless of who has the letters on their uniforms.   That is the beauty of team sports.   This team needed Williams to come back at this crucial juncture.   The parity in the NHL is really exciting.   We can use all the help we can get at this point because here lately I have been a little concerned  at our inconsistent play.   Our PK , goaltending  and defense  have been going down hill.   Hopefully new blood will bring a different energy to the room which in the long run can't hurt.   Let's keep going Canes.   

Edited by snuffy72
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26 minutes ago, snuffy72 said:

Jordan Staal does not have the leadership qualities needed at this level. 

OK-  how in the H E double hockey sticks is this determined unless you work with the guy and occupy the locker room with him? 

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Now that Williams is signed I hope we are not done looking at other possibilities. I'm not concerned with who will have to sit if the moves make our team better. I don't think we are done on the moves and hope we are considering another D man or even another forward. As usual it will be interesting to see where we sit come TD and what our hand will be.

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3 hours ago, snuffy72 said:

Jordan Staal does not have the leadership qualities needed at this level. 

Do you have a source for this? Or is this your opinion based on what you perceive? Because the only things I have heard are comments from players about Jordan being a hard working lead by example type.

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6 hours ago, thickburglar said:

Turns out we didn't need injuries as a reason to sign JW I guess? 

 

Ginner seems too much a dyed in the wool Canes 4th liner to bench him. Nino is playing well. Necas may have cooled down but still a weapon. Really anyone we would sit for JW is someone who's made big contributions this year. If JW is looking like legit top-9 guy getting closer to the trade deadline we might need to make a trade for picks. 

I don’t think any trade we make will be to clear room for Williams. He’ll be gone for sure next year. To shore up D, maybe. We can carry 13 forwards and Rod can rotate players as he sees fit.

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4 hours ago, wxray1 said:

 Rem, trying to parse what you mean by "ridiculous."  I see it two ways. 

 

Both of these are ridiculous:

  • Play 10 games and get $500k (easy ridiculous)
  • Win the Stanley Cup and get $100k (difficult ridiculous)

 

Which way to do you mean?

 

Edit: the above are FICTIONAL for example purposes only.  Do not read that these are real in any way.

I just mean if the bonuses are ridiculously easy like the first example, they are just transferring pay that he will get for sure and is pretty much guaranteed. The harder they are, and the more pointed towards long playoff runs, the less likely they are to be paid, and if they are paid they will be clearly worth it. If they don't get paid we'd still have that cap space next year too.

 

I'd just be curious to see the full deal at some point. Not sure if the details are out there.

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Copying a couple of comments about my post I will respond. 1.  Do you have a source for this? Or is this your opinion based on what you perceive? Because the only things I have heard are comments from players about Jordan being a hard working lead by example type.

 

2.  OK-  how in the H E double hockey sticks is this determined unless you work with the guy and occupy the locker room with him? 

 

Just my opinion.    Is it o.k. to have an opinion on this board or do I need to clear my comments by someone?  Having served in the military for almost a quarter century I have seen good leaders come and go.   So based on what I think a good leader is all about (hard work has nothing to do with it) I base my opinion.   My dad was a very hard working man but trust me he was not a leader.  Thank you for allowing an old man like me to have my opinions.   Let's go Canes !!

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47 minutes ago, snuffy72 said:

Copying a couple of comments about my post I will respond. 1.  Do you have a source for this? Or is this your opinion based on what you perceive? Because the only things I have heard are comments from players about Jordan being a hard working lead by example type.

 

2.  OK-  how in the H E double hockey sticks is this determined unless you work with the guy and occupy the locker room with him? 

 

Just my opinion.    Is it o.k. to have an opinion on this board or do I need to clear my comments by someone?  Having served in the military for almost a quarter century I have seen good leaders come and go.   So based on what I think a good leader is all about (hard work has nothing to do with it) I base my opinion.   My dad was a very hard working man but trust me he was not a leader.  Thank you for allowing an old man like me to have my opinions.   Let's go Canes !!

Careful pointing out the deficiencies of Staals around here, snuffy. The True Believers with their Staal jerseys and rose-colored glasses are killer.

 

Before I go on, let me be clear: Jordan brings talents that are easy to overlook but absolutely necessary to win hockey games. And OF COURSE (all you masters of the obvious...) none of us "knows" anything about how he leads. 

 

What we do know is that when he has had the C, the team has struggled to maintain focus, and when Justin had it, the team was focused for the entire second half of the season, and went to the ECF. That's not an indictment of Jordan, but it is evidence--admittedly anecdotal, because that's all we've got as fans--that however Jordan leads probably doesn't speak to the troops as effectively as however Justin does.

 

Jordan was comfortable with the A, played better with A, and he was never intended to be an offensive star--except perhaps in Jim Rutherford's twisted little dream of having four or five or however many they're up to these days Staals playing in Raleigh simultaneously. But even then he wasn't going to be an offensive powerhouse; it's just not what he does. He's a role player, who goes quietly about doing his particular job better than pretty much anyone in the league.

 

Effective Captains, however, are not quiet.   

Edited by top-shelf-1
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I did not see where I or others indicated you were not entitled to an opinion.  Just wondering what you based it on which you have now answered.  My opinion requires facts as I am a scientist.   Here is some data: Jordan has been captain for a limited time. During that time the team has had good and not so good times. However overall they are competing well in a tough division.  He has rebounded to an extent from a point standpoint.  His personal outwardly quiet demeanor does not mean he is not a good leader. That might be a more prevalent need in your military experience. I function in a leadership role in my position in industry. I have to admit after several decades that the old school leadership style might not work so good with today’s young men.  That’s a fact.  So another opinion. All good?

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22 minutes ago, cc said:

His personal outwardly quiet demeanor does not mean he is not a good leader. That might be a more prevalent need in your military experience.

 

Not indicting anyone here, just observing.  I can see both sides of the Staal thing.  When we had the poll, I believe I didn't choose him, but figured he would be chosen.  Anyway, based on the comment above, all I can think of is R. Lee Ermy's performance as the D.I. in Full Metal Jacket.

 

Now there's a leader!  :)

 

 

rlee.JPG

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44 minutes ago, wxray1 said:

 

Not indicting anyone here, just observing.  I can see both sides of the Staal thing.  When we had the poll, I believe I didn't choose him, but figured he would be chosen.  Anyway, based on the comment above, all I can think of is R. Lee Ermy's performance as the D.I. in Full Metal Jacket.

 

Now there's a leader!  :)

 

 

rlee.JPG

 

If I recall correctly, his leadership style didn't exactly lead to optimum results, lol. :o

 

1688943213_FMJ.thumb.JPG.84f29d13a8272d0967da2cba2cd2b667.JPG

 

Edited by LakeLivin
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1 hour ago, wxray1 said:

 

Not indicting anyone here, just observing.  I can see both sides of the Staal thing.  When we had the poll, I believe I didn't choose him, but figured he would be chosen.  Anyway, based on the comment above, all I can think of is R. Lee Ermy's performance as the D.I. in Full Metal Jacket.

 

Now there's a leader!  :)

 

 

rlee.JPG

Met him a few years ago before he passed...he was signing his book at the Tinker AFB BX.  I asked him to put one of his random insults in along with his autograph...he put “What is your MAJOR malfunction?”  I busted out laughing and he asked what was so funny...”I’m pinning in Major in three weeks.”  Then he busted out laughing...

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32 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

 

If I recall correctly, his leadership style didn't exactly lead to optimum results, lol. :o

 

1688943213_FMJ.thumb.JPG.84f29d13a8272d0967da2cba2cd2b667.JPG

 

They could’ve ended the movie right before that point and it would’ve gone down as the greatest movie of all time...but nooooo, Kubrick HAD to ruin it! ;)

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1 hour ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Careful pointing out the deficiencies of Staals around here, snuffy. The True Believers with their Staal jerseys and rose-colored glasses are killer.

 

Before I go on, let me be clear: Jordan brings talents that are easy to overlook but absolutely necessary to win hockey games. And OF COURSE (all you masters of the obvious...) none of us "knows" anything about how he leads. 

 

What we do know is that when he has had the C, the team has struggled to maintain focus, and when Justin had it, the team was focused for the entire second half of the season, and went to the ECF. That's not an indictment of Jordan, but it is evidence--admittedly anecdotal, because that's all we've got as fans--that however Jordan leads probably doesn't speak to the troops as effectively as however Justin does.

 

Jordan was comfortable with the A, played better with A, and he was never intended to be an offensive star--except perhaps in Jim Rutherford's twisted little dream of having four or five or however many they're up to these days Staals playing in Raleigh simultaneously. But even then he wasn't going to be an offensive powerhouse; it's just not what he does. He's a role player, who goes quietly about doing his particular job better than pretty much anyone in the league.

 

Effective Captains, however, are not quiet.   

Dont forget that the Willy lead Canes were terrible in the first half last season and dispite having the 2nd best record from Jan 1 till then end of the season barely made the playoffs. So while sure the Canes have been inconsistent with Staal wearing the C they have a much better record through 42 games then the Willy lead Canes.

 

Oh and great leaders do not have to be vocal, not that we know Jordon is quiet in the locker room because none of us are there. But saying they have to be loud to be heard is bull crap

Edited by Derailed75

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I suspect that what will likely happen is that the normal wear and tear of the 2nd half of an NHL season will mostly determine who's out.  And if it doesn't? Too many deserving players to all get on the ice at once? What a great problem to have!  (waivers won't be an issue because even with Willy we're below the 23 man limit)

 

As rem noted, if we're 100% healthy I'm still in favor of rotating most forwards out of games throughout the season, especially when we hit that brutal March schedule.  Don't hold me to this, but I believe that some NBA teams have started reducing minutes for healthy star players throughout the season and that they felt the lessened wear and tear paid dividends come playoff time.     

Edited by LakeLivin
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16 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

I suspect that what will likely happen is that the normal wear and tear of the 2nd half of an NHL season will mostly determine who's out.  And if it doesn't? Too many deserving players to all get on the ice at once? What a great problem to have!  (waivers won't be an issue because even with Willy we're below the 23 man limit)

 

As rem noted, if we're 100% healthy I'm still in favor of rotating most forwards out of games throughout the season, especially when we hit that brutal March schedule.  Don't hold me to this, but I believe that some NBA teams have started reducing minutes for healthy star players throughout the season and that they felt the lessened wear and tear paid dividends come playoff time.     

Good NBA teams treat the regular season like the exhibition season.  Good NBA teams, for that matter, treat the first 46 minutes of the game like warm ups, and come charging in the final 2 minutes to win closely, all the while conserving minutes for their stars.  That's because they don't give a rats a_s about the regular season.  Ovechkin is skipping the All Star game, because he is all about winning;  winning is the Stanley Cup, not creeping into the playoffs.  The NHL = parity, and a little edge can make the difference.  Let me tell you this, there's a reason the Bruins, the Caps, and the Leafs were lining up to sign JW in the crazy event the Canes could not get the deal done.  

 

The Canes had a truly break through season last year, first making the playoffs for the first time in 9 years, and then winning 2 series.  To not use that experience as a building block and to take a step backwards would be tragic.  TD realizes, DW realizes, JW is willing to sacrifice his 38 year old body believing that.  

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38 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

s that the normal wear and tear of the 2nd half of an NHL season will mostly determine who's out.

Again, look at the ridiculous March schedule, and tell me that it's not going to be important to have "that guy"to fill in for dinged up players.

Edited by KJUNKANE

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