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NHL trade deadline talk (Feb. 24, 2020 at 3pm ET)

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So as I see it, we need to call up Ned (nothing but a proven winner), call up Gauthier ( very hot now & NHL ready. Make a trade with Minnesota to get Brodin and call up Mr Bean.

Dump Haula, Petr, and TVR.

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I think the Canes find themselves in a position to respond to whatever presents itself on the marketplace at the trade deadline.  they could be a buyer, they could be a seller.  They are a team on the fringe of the playoffs, and with a good push they could make it in.  Is making it in to lose in the first round worthy of sacrificing much in the way of talent and/or picks?  On the other side, they have some players other teams might like to add such as Dzingel, Haula, Gardiner, TVR, and in my dreams, Staal.  If a team wanted to take on Staal's contract, I think the Canes would have to give up on this season in order to unload that contract.  There are going to be contracts to write in the near future such as Svechnikov, Hamilton, and Necas that would be preferred to being tied down to Staal.

 

So, either way, as long as it is smart, works for me.

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4 minutes ago, beboplar said:

 If a team wanted to take on Staal's contract, I think the Canes would have to give up on this season in order to unload that contract.

Homeboy’s got a full NMC thanks to JR

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15 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

Homeboy’s got a full NMC thanks to JR

Understand.  Professional athletes waive those for the right situation all the time.  For example, if the Bruins, who look to be competing to go all the way, want to bring on Staal, you think he won't waive his clause in order to compete for the Cup?

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7 minutes ago, beboplar said:

Understand.  Professional athletes waive those for the right situation all the time.  For example, if the Bruins, who look to be competing to go all the way, want to bring on Staal, you think he won't waive his clause in order to compete for the Cup?

We are a cup contender and he likes it here. Why would he go. We are on the edge of the playoffs without a very key cog in Dougie. Last year we were the 7th seed and were in the ECF. We need something more then what we have been getting no question but again why would a guy leave a team where he is the C, likes the coach, likes the area, likes his teammates, and went deep into the playoffs the last year, has a young locked-up very good core. ect.

 

He aint waiving it anytime soon.

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IMO the Canes biggest problem is that at the moment we don't have a legit playmaking center, especially at 2C. Staal, Haula and Wallmark are all on pace, remarkably for 18 assists for a full 82 games. Even Aho has been more of a goal scorer, but after that we can't get a true second line put together because we don't have that playmaking 2C. Even Haula at his best was more of a goal scorer. I think Necas has the potential, but it might take a couple of years.

 

If we are going to go out and make a hockey trade, that's what I'd want outside of Lehner.

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13 minutes ago, remkin said:

IMO the Canes biggest problem is that at the moment we don't have a legit playmaking center, especially at 2C. Staal, Haula and Wallmark are all on pace, remarkably for 18 assists for a full 82 games. Even Aho has been more of a goal scorer, but after that we can't get a true second line put together because we don't have that playmaking 2C. Even Haula at his best was more of a goal scorer. I think Necas has the potential, but it might take a couple of years.

 

If we are going to go out and make a hockey trade, that's what I'd want outside of Lehner.

Good point. Already discussed that we can get rid of Staal, so with the injuries who do we trade and who is out of it that has a playmaking center we could snag?

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1 hour ago, Derailed75 said:

Good point. Already discussed that we can get rid of Staal, so with the injuries who do we trade and who is out of it that has a playmaking center we could snag?

Yeah that's part of the problem. They are not that easy to come by. I haven't really researched it lately.

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I know Staal makes a lot of money but that’s not his fault. IMO he was so good in Pitt because he was a 3rd line center playing against  lower D pairs and great on shorties on the PK. We mistakenly thought he could do a lot more with more ice time on top lines. Money aside if we had the talented centers I would like to see him as a 3C in a checking role. Just because you make a lot of money doesn’t mean you deserve 1st or 2nd line ice time.  I hope we can scratch and claw our way into the playoffs but it is going to be a dog fight. I will be disappointed if we don’t but still feel we are trending in the right direction.  A few more pieces needed. 

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7 hours ago, Derailed75 said:

We are a cup contender and he likes it here. Why would he go. We are on the edge of the playoffs without a very key cog in Dougie. Last year we were the 7th seed and were in the ECF. We need something more then what we have been getting no question but again why would a guy leave a team where he is the C, likes the coach, likes the area, likes his teammates, and went deep into the playoffs the last year, has a young locked-up very good core. ect.

 

He aint waiving it anytime soon.

If the Canes are a Cup contender I must be getting fake news when I look at the game results and standings.  In a league defined by parity, the Canes are right in there as a 7 or 8 seed, or watching the playoffs after finishing 9th or 10th.  To answer your question, he would leave the team to play on one seriously contending for the Cup. 

The Canes had a tremendous run in the playoffs last season, but it took every ounce of physical play they had in them to get by the Caps, and after cruising past the Isles, could not come close to matching Boston's presence.  The Canes don't have any of that going for them this season.  I am thinking about the long game, not just squeezing into the 8th slot and being bounced out.  The remaining years on Staal's deal will not help them bring home a Cup, but freeing up that money to resign Hamilton and fund new deals for Svechnikov and Necas might.

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1 hour ago, beboplar said:

If the Canes are a Cup contender I must be getting fake news when I look at the game results and standings.  In a league defined by parity, the Canes are right in there as a 7 or 8 seed, or watching the playoffs after finishing 9th or 10th.  To answer your question, he would leave the team to play on one seriously contending for the Cup. 

The Canes had a tremendous run in the playoffs last season, but it took every ounce of physical play they had in them to get by the Caps, and after cruising past the Isles, could not come close to matching Boston's presence.  The Canes don't have any of that going for them this season.  I am thinking about the long game, not just squeezing into the 8th slot and being bounced out.  The remaining years on Staal's deal will not help them bring home a Cup, but freeing up that money to resign Hamilton and fund new deals for Svechnikov and Necas might.

 

There are certain athletes with an extraordinary drive to win.  Others are closer to the "normal" spectrum.  From other sports, Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, and Tom Brady spring to mind.  I believe I recall Jordan Staal stating that his faith occupies the top spot in his life.  Wouldn't be surprised if his family, who is obviously settled in Raleigh, ranks second.  Without knowing the answer, I think the question of whether Staal would waive for a better shot at another Cup is very much an open one.

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20 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

 

There are certain athletes with an extraordinary drive to win.  Others are closer to the "normal" spectrum.  From other sports, Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, and Tom Brady spring to mind.  I believe I recall Jordan Staal stating that his faith occupies the top spot in his life.  Wouldn't be surprised if his family, who is obviously settled in Raleigh, ranks second.  Without knowing the answer, I think the question of whether Staal would waive for a better shot at another Cup is very much an open one.

I agree it is a long shot.  My point about the trade deadline is that all aisles are open for business;  the team could be a buyer, it could be a seller, it could be both.  This team may have had its best draft in team history this year.  There may be 4 or 5 players from this draft who eventually suit up for the Canes.  They have 2 defensemen signed long term, Slavin and Pesce, and 3 forwards, Aho, Turbo, and Staal.  They will want to tie up Svechnikov, and will want to compete for Hamilton but need resources.  All I am saying is that if a deal avails itself to put Staal in a position he would like going to, and relieves the team of his salary, it would provide the king of relief needed to think about signing Svech and Hamilton.

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2 hours ago, beboplar said:

If the Canes are a Cup contender I must be getting fake news when I look at the game results and standings.  In a league defined by parity, the Canes are right in there as a 7 or 8 seed, or watching the playoffs after finishing 9th or 10th.  To answer your question, he would leave the team to play on one seriously contending for the Cup. 

The Canes had a tremendous run in the playoffs last season, but it took every ounce of physical play they had in them to get by the Caps, and after cruising past the Isles, could not come close to matching Boston's presence.  The Canes don't have any of that going for them this season.  I am thinking about the long game, not just squeezing into the 8th slot and being bounced out.  The remaining years on Staal's deal will not help them bring home a Cup, but freeing up that money to resign Hamilton and fund new deals for Svechnikov and Necas might.

Any team that makes the play off is a cup contender that has been proven time and again as teams like the Blues win the cup often. Seeding has also proven to not matter as the top 2 teams in the East didnt get out of the first round one, the number one got swept. If you think a team needs to be the media darling like the Bolts were last year to win the cup. I'm not sure you watch the playoffs.

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During the Checkers game today, Derek Wilkinson was interviewed.  He expects the team to look different come the NHL trade deadline. Also he expects some european and college pto players.

 

positive note Mattheos should be back next week.

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Just kind of hit me that we have now managed to watch two Staal's see their offensive numbers decline alarmingly in Raleigh. This absolutely could be coincidence, but just noting it. Eric ended up getting some offensive swagger back after being traded. A few problems with the idea of trading Staal though. 1. His value to contract ratio is pretty low with this drop in productivity. 2. His NTC. Not that he wouldn't possibly waive, but, like Eric or Skinner, (thanks JR), demand only one or two teams, further lowering return. 3. Rod loves the guy, both on the ice and personally. 4. He is the Captain, though that could slide to Williams if need be, it does put weight on not trading him. 

 

Basically I'm imagining a low return if a deal could even be found. And the guy does play a heavier game and plays D. 

 

Staal has been a big plus for this team over the years. But right now our lack of a true 2C is a problem, leading in part to the line blender. It is an issue, but not sure there's an easy solution short of Staal finding at least his historical offense. 

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13 hours ago, Derailed75 said:

Any team that makes the play off is a cup contender that has been proven time and again as teams like the Blues win the cup often. Seeding has also proven to not matter as the top 2 teams in the East didnt get out of the first round one, the number one got swept. If you think a team needs to be the media darling like the Bolts were last year to win the cup. I'm not sure you watch the playoffs.

I can assure you I have watched the playoffs since the early '60's.  That is almost 60 years of watching the playoffs.  The thing that I have learned about the playoffs is that scoring goes down, goaltending makes a huge difference, and physical play negates talent in many cases.  While I root for the Canes, I don't think any of the above translates well to a deep playoff run this year unless they make a couple of changes, particularly bringing in a physical player.

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1 hour ago, remkin said:

Just kind of hit me that we have now managed to watch two Staal's see their offensive numbers decline alarmingly in Raleigh. This absolutely could be coincidence, but just noting it. Eric ended up getting some offensive swagger back after being traded. A few problems with the idea of trading Staal though. 1. His value to contract ratio is pretty low with this drop in productivity. 2. His NTC. Not that he wouldn't possibly waive, but, like Eric or Skinner, (thanks JR), demand only one or two teams, further lowering return. 3. Rod loves the guy, both on the ice and personally. 4. He is the Captain, though that could slide to Williams if need be, it does put weight on not trading him. 

 

Basically I'm imagining a low return if a deal could even be found. And the guy does play a heavier game and plays D. 

 

Staal has been a big plus for this team over the years. But right now our lack of a true 2C is a problem, leading in part to the line blender. It is an issue, but not sure there's an easy solution short of Staal finding at least his historical offense. 

I agree with all of your take.  If Staal was a stock, his Price to Value would be in the top 10% of equities, and therefore not an attractive buy.  I know that, and that is why unloading his contract will most likely not happen.  The fact that he owns a NTC is superfluous if no other team wants the contract.  Big players like him do attract interest to teams pursuing the Cup, though, and it only takes one, so when I suggest that trading him would be a plus, it is not with the idea that it will happen.  My premise is that the Canes should be wide open to any transaction, buy or sell.  They are in that position, where whatever is in the franchise's best interest is what they should do.  I would suggest that Aho, TT, Svechnikov, Necas, Slavin, Hamilton, and Pesce are their core and off limits, but beyond them anyone could be involved in a deal.

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13 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

During the Checkers game today, Derek Wilkinson was interviewed.  He expects the team to look different come the NHL trade deadline. Also he expects some european and college pto players.

 

positive note Mattheos should be back next week.

Not sure I understand here gocanes? 1st I am unsure who Derek Wilkinson is, so sorry if I should know the name. 

 

Then, "team to look different come the NHL trade deadline" really to me says very little, as just bringing up a single player would accomplish that? And if we'd bring up Bean for instance that would be a different look?

 

Finally, European and college PTO players I assume that suggests that they would be coming to the Checkers, thus some Checkers are heading up this way? Any of this your gist?

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6 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

Not sure I understand here gocanes? 1st I am unsure who Derek Wilkinson is, so sorry if I should know the name. 

 

Then, "team to look different come the NHL trade deadline" really to me says very little, as just bringing up a single player would accomplish that? And if we'd bring up Bean for instance that would be a different look?

 

Finally, European and college PTO players I assume that suggests that they would be coming to the Checkers, thus some Checkers are heading up this way? Any of this your gist?

Derek is the hockey operations guy for the Checkers. He expects the Checkers to look different and maybe lack some depth come the trade deadline. He also expects some of the depth issues to be fixed by European and College PTO players towards the end of the AHL season.

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7 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

Derek is the hockey operations guy for the Checkers. He expects the Checkers to look different and maybe lack some depth come the trade deadline. He also expects some of the depth issues to be fixed by European and College PTO players towards the end of the AHL season.

Okay, I get it now. Thanks, so that is the Checkers' outlook, I thought it was for the Canes?

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Just now, KJUNKANE said:

Okay, I get it now. Thanks, so that is the Checkers' outlook, I thought it was for the Canes?

I was a little vague last night. I knew the details so it made sense to me.

 

It is a checkers and Canes outlook. Based on his assumption of lacking depth after the trade deadline, he expects the Canes to make a move(s) involving Checkers’ player(s).  
 

Hopefully we see Cotton, Bokk, and company signed to PTOs and brought over.

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On Spector's Hockey taken from Sportsnet

Quote

The Carolina Hurricanes have scouted the Habs. They need blueline depth and could have Brett Kulak or Marco Scandella in their sights.

 

The could have in their sights remark makes it more reasoning than an actual rumor but it appears we have scouted the Habs. When you listen to Waddell it is apparent we were looking for D help before the Hamilton injury and that injury has made our interest in a D man even more important.

 

Waddell has a habit of pulling off surprises so rumors aside I think we can expect something by deadline...but what?

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OK for those that like analytics as it pertains to our current lines Sarah Civ at the Athletic has an interesting piece:  https://theathletic.com/1577022/2020/02/04/what-are-the-best-possible-hurricanes-line-combinations-right-now-an-investigation/?source=weeklyemail 

 

Sarah uses this to try to figure out line combos, but I found it interesting as validation of what's ailing us in terms of our offensive depth.

 

She uses a stat called GSVA: Game Score Value Added. It is an attempt to put a single number on a player's overall value in both offense and defense. Sort of like a finer tuned +/-. It weighs goals, primary assists, secondary assists, blocked shots, penalty differential, expected goal differential and more. It is for 3 years with recency weighed some. 

 

I'm not saying it's the perfect stat, but it does seem to correlate pretty well with who our best players are. 

 

Sarah correlates our guy's GSVA scores at each forward position vs. other top "cup contender" teams for each position at forward. For  our best line combos, and go read it for that, but I use it to point out where we are lacking vs top teams. 

 

One is (pats self on back) 2C, the other is LW . For the most part we line up pretty well everywhere else. If we go Svech-Aho-TT, our top line matches the average top line of top contending teams. In fact Svech on LW is substantially better than average first line contender LW (which is interesting to me). Justin Williams then becomes our only legit second liner with LW and Center below the line by a good bit.

 

Staal is a tweener 2c - 3C, and top contending teams don't have tweener 2C's. This is by far the biggest gap between other contenders and us using GSVA. Making matters worse, this is a three year number, and though weighted to recency, Staal is clearly under-performing his own score this year.  See also Haula. I was hoping for more offense from this guy than Staal. But he also comes out as a tweener. Also for him that number includes his torrid numbers from before he sat. So, he too, is under-performing even his own potential. Since centers drive lines, this is a problem for creating an effective second line. 

 

Our 3rd and 4th lines generally line up well. But part of that is that guys who could be top 6 are under-performing, but line up OK as 3rd or 4th liners. 

 

Svech is better than average contending team first line left winger. But after that, our best is actually slightly below third line. So, really, we a big hole at 2C and a smaller hole at LW2. Put another way, Aho/TT/Svech/ and J Williams are the only players with ratings that are top 6. Everyone else is bottom 6. Nino, Staal, and Haula are all performing as 2-3 tweeners over 3 years, but all are also flailing recently, and really more like 3rd liners. 

 

Necas is interesting. He rings in with a .6, which is lower end third line. I'd have thought he'd be more solid third line. His potential is much higher, but right now, as a rookie, he's still very much figuring it out and can't be looked to as a top 6 guy consistently. Dzingle is underperforming expectations the most IMO. 

 

So do we need a trade for a forward? Depends. If we can move out an underperformer and add a 2C, or to a lesser extent a LW, maybe yes. But what we probably really need most is the guys we have to play up to their potential. If they do, we suddenly have more depth than the average contender. If they don't, we have less. 

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I would like to see us move out Haula and go get a guy like Pageau. He seems to be very good player for Rod’s system and is a righty. Pageau is an over achiever this season and ai dont see us keeping him because the value wont be there.

 

I’d like to see a deal with Ottawa for DeMelo and JGP for swap of Rangers and Dallas 2nd round picks plus some add and a conditional 1st next season if both re-sign with us. If not it’s a 2nd rounder.  Ideally move a roster defender to Ottawa as well.  
 

Haula to Minnesota for something. 

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