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NHL trade deadline talk (Feb. 24, 2020 at 3pm ET)

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1 minute ago, donwalrus said:

This is why we cant have nice things

gardiner-sucks.png

ohh could include the blatant pass to a Star that led to a forced penalty taken by Staal and eventual PP goal.

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3 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

ohh could include the blatant pass to a Star that led to a forced penalty taken by Staal and eventual PP goal.

Yep, that one too

image.png.49f980cdc781ae80dc03a3c338d29817.png

7th worst plus minus in the league

Edited by donwalrus

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My opinion on the Canes and trade deadline decisions probably will be unpopular.  I believe the Canes should be a seller at the deadline.  For those of you who think the Canes can/will make the playoffs, I don't have a strong argument.  With good play and luck they can creep into the 6-8 spot, or just as easily finish 9 or 10 out of the picture.  In the former case, they get to play the likes of Boston or Washington in round 1, and in that case I foresee a quick exit.  I am trying to look at the long game with the decisions made at this deadline.

 

With that in mind, I believe their decisions should be made with an eye on creating salary space to extend two keepers, Hamilton and Svechnikov.  Neither will come cheaply, but both seem to like playing in Raleigh and both should be mainstays in the Canes future plans.  The second goal of the trade deadline should be to create development space for a few players ready to be tested at the NHL level from Charlotte and possible college signings.

 

Towards those goals I would like to see them try to move:

1) Nino $5.25M + 2 years

2) Gardiner $4.05M + 3 years

3) Petr $3.125M + 1 year

4) Dzingel $3.375M + 1 year

5) TVR $2.3M + 0 years

 

In their places (if 1-3 can be moved), I would like to see Gauthier, Ned, and Bean promoted.  It is time they got to play on a regular basis at the NHL level.  If TVR can be moved, I would promote either McKeown or Priskie.  If Dzingel can be moved, I would like to see them sign a college guy such as Cotton or Drury.  

 

The Canes probably had their best draft ever this past year, one that may yield 5 NHL players from the first 3 rounds.  The future is bright for the team, but they are not going far this season.  Better to maximize their chances for the future.

Edited by beboplar
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TSN - Will the Carolina Hurricanes trade a draft pick?

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LeBrun: It is something Carolina has begun telling teams that they are willing to do if it means getting a top-four D that is signed.

 

LeBrun indicates Dundon doesn't want rental but player with term and we have kicked the tires on Matt Dumba

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1 hour ago, OBXer said:

TSN - Will the Carolina Hurricanes trade a draft pick?

 

LeBrun indicates Dundon doesn't want rental but player with term and we have kicked the tires on Matt Dumba

TSN has a trade bait tracker with players most likely to be traded. It runs 40 deep with names. #10 is our first round pick. There are no other picks listed on the entire board.

 

It will come as no surprise, but there is no way on Earth that I trade that pick for a rental. BAD. But, if they can add a very solid piece that they think is part of the vision moving forward, then fine. 

 

To me Dumba might be a good rental, sliding into Dougie's spot for the year, then out. But he has 3 years left on his deal at $6M/per after this year, so he's no rental, unless we plan on flipping him in the offseason (he does not have a NTC). Something would have to give on D. The most obvious something would be Gardiner. But he's a LHD. 

 

I guess the committee would figure it out. But Dougie is a special player, the kind Cup winning teams tend to have. And Slavin is just a notch behind that. We have to keep Dougie at all costs IMO. Do we trade Bean? Even cap teams also need low priced early and entry level contract guys to make the cap work. Bean and Fleury are the obvious ones to me. 

 

OK just rambling on here, but not sure I'm seeing the long game with Dumba unless we don't care about LHD/RHD in which case Dumba for Gardiner would be good.

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I'll add this. It's kind of a whacky long term plan, but if we could get Dumba now, we could flip him (or :couch: Pesce) in the offseason. It would make him a sort of rental, but we'd probably get a similar return to what we paid, or maybe a good young 2C.

 

Just musing here. Not a traditional type move, but the committee is hardly traditional.

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If Dundon wants a player with term then probable we aren't looking at a follow up trade in the off-season. Just a guess. Remember Edmundson who is skating off his natural side and TVR a right shot D are both UFA at the end of the season. Is it possible if we got a Dumba type player with term we would move one or both of them at trade deadline?

 

Waddell has also been reluctant to put Hamilton on the LTIR and even saying he could return in March although I think that is very much wishful thinking. Still that decision has to factor in on CAP space and our reluctance to bring up a Chex player until a deal is done or not.

 

I think I'm just talking out loud because although I think addressing our D at trade deadline makes the most sense I really have no idea what the committee is thinking.

 

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1 hour ago, OBXer said:

 

I think I'm just talking out loud because although I think addressing our D at trade deadline makes the most sense I really have no idea what the committee is thinking.

 

That's also where I find myself. 

 

I see no chance we retain TVR. I think we really like Edmundson and his physicality with some shutdown, but it's a numbers game, and Dumba would be an upgrade. 

 

Dumba: $6M, Dougie $5.7M, Slavin $5.3M, Gardiner $4M, Pesce $4M. I haven't really kept up with what D's cost these days, but that seems high even if Fleury comes in on a bargain.  

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TD's current mentality seems to be win now, ride the buzz from last season, make the playoffs this year. Totally understandable for a new owner who made the playoffs in his first year. To me that's why he would bring back JW like he did. I could see that mentality leading to us trading picks or prospects at the deadline, rather than promoting guys.

 

Would love to see him take a risk and promote Gauthier or Bean in a playoff push because they would play with just as much fight if not more than a traded guy. Heck even take a "risk" on Necas and give him more shifts than a third liner because he's playing amazing. 

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Please no Dumba unless we move out Gardiner.  We dont need another Gardiner.  Goalies might walk out at that point.

Edited by gocanes0506

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Since I'm so busy musing today...I will say that I see the general sentiment of bepolar and thickburglar not to give into the temptation to make a splash at the deadline. I guess I've also been advocating that. Bepolar goes farther as in not only standing pat, but actually cleaning house. TBH I get the appeal of that too. The problem I have with it is return and messaging. Cleaning house can be interpreted as abandoning the guys who are fighting hard and actually having one of the better seasons in Canes history. Also, the return is likely to be low for the guys we try to jettison. If any of them would bring a first rounder, then I'm all in. Heck I'd bundle a couple for a first rounder. But I don't see that for any of the guys on that list. 

 

I like the idea of getting guys up from Charlotte though. It seems to inject energy, and they often do well, or at least not badly. It's also a great chance to get some NHL time. Gauthier and Bean come to mind directly. 

 

I'm just at a loss for what type of deal would turn this thing. We are disjointed on lines 2-4. Adding a D man might help a little, but not much.  As to D coverage issues, a new guy typically takes time to adjust (see Hamilton and Gardiner). 

 

It just seems to me that Gardiner is a highly skilled player who is prone to bad decisions with the puck at bad times. If Dumba plays that way too, then I agree with gocanes. Just say no.

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Also, on TSN's trade-bait tracker's top 40 there are no goalies. I'm assuming this is because Chicago is still in the hunt. Thanks Weak West. Just another thing. They would be absolutely out in the East. 

 

Chicago has lost 2 in a row, and sit with 3 teams to jump and 6 points out. So...maybe...but alas the magic beans. Time will tell, but they have 3 games in hand on the last WC team, and only if they lose all three will they actually be 6 points out. Chicago has gained about a point per game this year, so giving them a projected 3 points in their next 3 games, would put them only 3 points out.

 

So, my Lehner dream has to wait...

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1 hour ago, remkin said:

TSN has a trade bait tracker with players most likely to be traded. It runs 40 deep with names. #10 is our first round pick. There are no other picks listed on the entire board.

 

It will come as no surprise, but there is no way on Earth that I trade that pick for a rental. BAD. But, if they can add a very solid piece that they think is part of the vision moving forward, then fine. Dumba is a RHD. How does he fit in next year? Does he play his off side? Just looking down the list for next year, without regard to handedness, I'd move Gardiner out to make room for another veteran. I think Bean needs to get up here. But if we stay with the RHD/LHD how do we bring up Bean? It sure looks over and over like TD and the committee and coach just have no interest in the D men they drafted high and have developed. We keep bringing in more and more vets: CDH, Gardiner, maybe Dumba...while Fleury rode the pine and Bean stays in the AHL. Don't get me wrong, Bean getting this year in the AHL is good. But next year he should take TVR's spot IMO. With Dumba we'd have Pesce/Hamilton/Dumba/Bean on the RHD. And a whole lotta cash tied up both on D and on the RHD side. 

 

To me Dumba might be a good rental, sliding into Dougie's spot for the year, then out. But he has 3 years left on his deal at $6M/per after this year, so he's no rental, unless we plan on flipping him in the offseason (he does not have a NTC). Something would have to give on D. The most obvious something would be Gardiner. But he's a LHD. 

 

I guess the committee would figure it out. But Dougie is a special player, the kind Cup winning teams tend to have. And Slavin is just a notch behind that. We have to keep Dougie at all costs IMO. Do we trade Bean? Even cap teams also need low priced early and entry level contract guys to make the cap work. Bean and Fleury are the obvious ones to me. 

 

OK just rambling on here, but not sure I'm seeing the long game with Dumba unless we don't care about LHD/RHD in which case Dumba for Gardiner would be good.

 

Rem, Bean is a left shot D.  Are you thinking him playing his off side?  Kaski, Priske, and McKeown are all R.  Forsling, who is a bit older and already has 122 NHL games under his belt, also is a left D.  At least on paper he appears to be having a very good season in Charlotte so far (7G, 15A, +18 in 42 games so far).  

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1 minute ago, LakeLivin said:

 

Rem, Bean is a left shot D.  Are you thinking him playing his off side?  Kaski, Priske, and McKeown are all R.  Forsling, who is a bit older and already has 122 NHL games under his belt, also is a left D.  At least on paper he appears to be having a very good season in Charlotte so far (7G, 15A, +18 in 42 games so far).  

This is the second time I've done this. :hairpull:. For some reason I got it in my head that Bean was a RHD. I'm not sure how, since I absolutely knew he was a LHD for good while. But it got in the noggin' and I'm propagating mistakes. OK, never mind on the RHD, LHD thing. I'll try to go fix my posts. Thanks for reminding me again Lake!

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I guess it kind of makes sense re Dumba in that case (Bean being a LHD and all), though his salary is big and per gocanes, his D may be questionable. Not sure what others think, as I haven't watched him much. However, it would still create a money pit on the RHD side that would necessitate paying a bottom pair RHD at least $4million, and up to $6 million. And since I think we all deeply want to re-sign Dougy, that could get sticky as that guy is getting paid. 

 

But if we go Hamilton/Pesce/Dumba, that's pretty strong at least in name value, and it would not block Bean from coming up (since, despite my brain fart, Bean is a LHD). To make room next year at least, it would make sense to me to move Gardiner. That would make some cap space and allow us to go Hamilton-Slavin, Pesce-Fleury, Dumba-Bean. 

 

Pesce is on a very good deal, and Fleury and Bean should be fairly cheap, so we can probably get away with it next year. The following year, we sign Dougie and trade Dumba IMO. 

 

That could work.

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9 minutes ago, remkin said:

I guess it kind of makes sense re Dumba in that case (Bean being a LHD and all), though his salary is big and per gocanes, his D may be questionable. Not sure what others think, as I haven't watched him much. However, it would still create a money pit on the RHD side that would necessitate paying a bottom pair RHD at least $4million, and up to $6 million. And since I think we all deeply want to re-sign Dougy, that could get sticky as that guy is getting paid. 

 

But if we go Hamilton/Pesce/Dumba, that's pretty strong at least in name value, and it would not block Bean from coming up (since, despite my brain fart, Bean is a LHD). To make room next year at least, it would make sense to me to move Gardiner. That would make some cap space and allow us to go Hamilton-Slavin, Pesce-Fleury, Dumba-Bean. 

 

Pesce is on a very good deal, and Fleury and Bean should be fairly cheap, so we can probably get away with it next year. The following year, we sign Dougie and trade Dumba IMO. 

 

That could work.

 

Thinking past this season, what about right shot D-men Kaski and Priske, both of whom are presumably future NHL talent?  And, does anyone have a clue as to what's up with McKeown? :huh:

Edited by LakeLivin

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16 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

 

Thinking past this season, what about right shot D-men Kaski and Priske?  And, does anyone have a clue as to what's up with McKeown? :huh:

 

I feel bad for McKeown. He was anointed as NHL ready like 3 years ago. He has been lost in the shuffle more than any other player with NHL cred. He doesn't put up a ton of points, but plays composed, solid D. He is +70 his last three years in the AHL. He is, right now, the best call up on the RHD IMO. This is the classic example of a guy who could be establishing a nice NHL career about now on another team, but due to not being an offensive dynamo and having almost no NHL experience, is not going to bring much in a trade. He needs NHL games, but he won't get them unless we have another injury. 

 

Priskie, IMO needs a full year in Charlotte and then we see. He is putting up points. And that will keep interest higher than a McKeown. He is #4 in ppg for rookie D men in the AHL with .62 ppg. The offensive upside is very nice. Ironically he is McKeown's age. But coming from college as a full grad, needs some pro time. He could fight for a spot in camp IMO.

 

If we go and get a RHD that extends beyond this year, then baring trade, we will have no room for these guys unless we move another guy. At the moment though, if we don't, we could slide one up into TVR's spot next year. But the committee has shown a real penchant for bringing in veteran D men in the offseason, so who knows?

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5 minutes ago, remkin said:

 

I feel bad for McKeown. He was anointed as NHL ready like 3 years ago. He has been lost in the shuffle more than any other player with NHL cred. He doesn't put up a ton of points, but plays composed, solid D. He is +70 his last three years in the AHL. He is, right now, the best call up on the RHD IMO. This is the classic example of a guy who could be establishing a nice NHL career about now on another team, but due to not being an offensive dynamo and having almost no NHL experience, is not going to bring much in a trade. He needs NHL games, but he won't get them unless we have another injury. 

 

Priskie, IMO needs a full year in Charlotte and then we see. He is putting up points. And that will keep interest higher than a McKeown. He is #4 in ppg for rookie D men in the AHL with .62 ppg. The offensive upside is very nice. 

 

If we go and get a RHD that extends beyond this year, then baring trade, we will have no room for these guys unless we move another guy. At the moment though, if we don't, we could slide one up into TVR's spot next year. 

 

Gotta think we're set on Pesce and Hamilton long term (as long as Dougie doesn't go all Marner on his next contract demand).  And I also think that a franchise like the Canes need to maintain a model where they're utilizing players on ELCs (or at least the cheaper contracts that come with RFAs) towards the bottom of their lineup.  In other words, continually cycling in some portion of the roster through the development system.  So even if we pick up another quality RHD with term for the rest of this season, seems like the business model would dictate that he'd stand a good chance of being moved before his contract with the Canes ran out (a point to which you allude).  Seems like unless we got a guy with more than a year of term left we'd likely be selling at a discount to what we pay given that he'd be viewed as a rental next season.  Which could be ok, depending on his impact this year compared to what he'd bring back.

 

tldr: how are the Canes going to manage what looks like a promising pipeline of right shot defensemen if they pick up another with term? 

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2 hours ago, remkin said:

Since I'm so busy musing today...I will say that I see the general sentiment of bepolar and thickburglar not to give into the temptation to make a splash at the deadline. I guess I've also been advocating that. Bepolar goes farther as in not only standing pat, but actually cleaning house. TBH I get the appeal of that too. The problem I have with it is return and messaging. Cleaning house can be interpreted as abandoning the guys who are fighting hard and actually having one of the better seasons in Canes history. Also, the return is likely to be low for the guys we try to jettison. If any of them would bring a first rounder, then I'm all in. Heck I'd bundle a couple for a first rounder. But I don't see that for any of the guys on that list. 

 

I like the idea of getting guys up from Charlotte though. It seems to inject energy, and they often do well, or at least not badly. It's also a great chance to get some NHL time. Gauthier and Bean come to mind directly. 

 

I'm just at a loss for what type of deal would turn this thing. We are disjointed on lines 2-4. Adding a D man might help a little, but not much.  As to D coverage issues, a new guy typically takes time to adjust (see Hamilton and Gardiner). 

 

It just seems to me that Gardiner is a highly skilled player who is prone to bad decisions with the puck at bad times. If Dumba plays that way too, then I agree with gocanes. Just say no.

Getting return in exchange for unloading expensive contracts is not the first priority.  Future contracts for Svechnikov and Hamilton will not come cheaply.  The team will do a whole lot better negotiating with them with the likes of Nino's and Gardiner's deals off the books.  I would say it is obvious they are not bringing TVR back, but I said that 2 years ago when McKeown was ready for promotion at a less expensive cost and they resigned TVR anyway.  Petr and Dzingel have 1 year left on their deals, but the time is now to give Ned the chance.  I don't have any expectations for talent coming back in return for unloading those deals.  Just like the Red Sox didn't care what they got back when they traded David Price's $98M bad remaining deal to the Dodgers this week.  Unloading a Nino and giving Gauthier ice time while creating salary space is a win/win even not getting much return.  Same for Gardiner/Bean and Petr/Ned.

 

Like Nike says, Just Do It.

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Something I haven’t seen expressed on this board yet, but perhaps, outside of the immediate need for a puck moving RD with Hamilton out, the front office is looking at a player like Dumba or comparable RD with term as insurance in case Hamilton prices himself out of market.

 

Hamilton has 1 more year at $5.75M, but that number will shoot to at  least $8M on his next deal, I’d think. You know Svechnikov is going to get his $8M+, does Hamilton get his? Having the cost certainty of Dumba at $6M provides a lot of insulation to Hamilton asking for the moon. 
 

On the flipside, having 5 D making $4M+ is not the best use of cap,(Dumba/Hamilton/Slavin/Pesce/Gardiner), especially with cheap options like Bean/Priskie/Fleury/etc potentially ready.

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I don’t think we need to look outside for defensive help...but we do need to look outside to OFFLOAD some of our liabilities

Edited by AWACSooner

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Quick fixes 

 

Unload  Gardiner  . Mrazek ,  to free agency 

 

Call up   Ned  and Bean 

 

Trade  Mcginn   and Dzingle  for  a draft pick  and maybe a prospect 

Call up  ,  Gauthier   and  Geekie   

 

Fire the Goalie Coach and  give Cam Ward the Job NOW ! 

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37 minutes ago, Canesfanforever said:

Quick fixes 

 

Unload  Gardiner  . Mrazek ,  to free agency 

 

Call up   Ned  and Bean 

 

Trade  Mcginn   and Dzingle  for  a draft pick  and maybe a prospect 

Call up  ,  Gauthier   and  Geekie   

 

Fire the Goalie Coach and  give Cam Ward the Job NOW ! 

Wondering what you do when you find out Ned is not ready and Petr is in another sweater and back to form? 

Hes become kind of a whipping boy lately and while he hasnt been great he hasnt been bad. In fact he let up less goals in his last start (only one was his fault) then Riemer did in his last start (at least 3 were on Riems and one was an all time gaff).

 

You guys act like this team stinks and needs all kinds of help. The truth is we are 10th in the league in points (and on pace to match last years total) something that would normally get us in the playoffs but because of a crazy strong Met we are struggling to keep pace. 

 

Steady the ship and ride the tide, no rash trades dumping goalies in midst of a playoffs race to throw in an unproven AHL'er. Make maybe one or two moves if they help long term.

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13 minutes ago, Derailed75 said:

Steady the ship and ride the tide, no rash trades dumping goalies in midst of a playoffs race to throw in an unproven AHL'er. Make maybe one or two moves if they help long term.

Not good enough at this point.  We have to make some moves.  10th in the league isn’t worth a damn if we aren’t in the playoffs.  And it’s not like it’s going to get easier!

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14 minutes ago, Derailed75 said:

Wondering what you do when you find out Ned is not ready and Petr is in another sweater and back to form? 

Hes become kind of a whipping boy lately and while he hasnt been great he hasnt been bad. In fact he let up less goals in his last start (only one was his fault) then Riemer did in his last start (at least 3 were on Riems and one was an all time gaff).

 

You guys act like this team stinks and needs all kinds of help. The truth is we are 10th in the league in points (and on pace to match last years total) something that would normally get us in the playoffs but because of a crazy strong Met we are struggling to keep pace. 

 

Steady the ship and ride the tide, no rash trades dumping goalies in midst of a playoffs race to throw in an unproven AHL'er. Make maybe one or two moves if they help long term.

In the AHL  Ned is proven .   he was also  at the ahl all star game  where he snagged some  nice hardware .   At this point i'd rather take my chances with Ned  then to see one more  game with Mrazek !

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