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NHL trade deadline talk (Feb. 24, 2020 at 3pm ET)

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7 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

DZ hasn’t exactly panned out either 

By what standards?  We have cut his ice time by 3 minutes a game.  He isn’t going to be a 56 point player with less ice time.

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I don't follow Chicago closely, but I've gotten the feeling that they don't have a super tight D this year either, yet Lehner has still excelled. I did bring up the 5 points out and the weak West too. There were some rumors he might be available though. Does seem a bit premature for them to trade him though.

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28 minutes ago, remkin said:

I don't follow Chicago closely, but I've gotten the feeling that they don't have a super tight D this year either, yet Lehner has still excelled. I did bring up the 5 points out and the weak West too. There were some rumors he might be available though. Does seem a bit premature for them to trade him though.

Chicago lost two defenders, CdH and Seabrook long term this season. They also weren’t very good on defense to start with.

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I certainly follow the rationale for Lehner that rem has proposed, but I just am not sure he'd be amenable to coming to Raleigh? If not, then he becomes a "rental", and I don't believe we are at that stage of team development that it would be a practical solution to losing Dougie? While it is a certainty that we cannot replace Dougie from the open market, as much as I hate to say it, and have argued that somehow giving up on Gardiner does not give the team a good image to any potential UFA who might consider this team as an option, right now with the way things appear to be trending downward, I will concede that it would make sense? I sure do wish that a Checker could make the jump and bring up the possible scoring we lost with Dougie's injury.

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2 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

Chicago lost two defenders, CdH and Seabrook long term this season. They also weren’t very good on defense to start 

If Chicago trades Lenher they will fight for the first overall pick instead of playoff spot

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Looking at trends... Chicago was losing a lot early, but still scoring a few.  Their D and goaltending were terrible.  Lately, Chicago's scoring has been crazy good.  Meanwhile the Canes came out with torrid offense, then it went to scoring a few, to barely scoring the last few weeks with every game extremely tight.  Canes need offense more than G.

 

But Chicago is still leaking some goals.  Not sure I'd trade away Lehner because he'll be needed when the O hits some dry spots.

Edited by wxray1

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On the trade front,I am willing to wager that Justin Williams' play will dictate how/who DW goes after on the trade front? If for instance Justin continues like he started last night, than I think the trade goes in one direction(Dman or maybe a goalie)? However if Williams' play levels out and it appears that we still need that perennial net front presence, than that may be the way it goes? Unquestionably, DW likely would prefer to bring in an AHLer, but again I refer to Forslund's thought the other night which I'm paraphrasing, that maybe due to Dougie's unfortunate injury, a Checker might suffice TEMPORARILY, but for the long haul, an established NHL Dman is preferable.

 

Speaking of Dougie, I'd be curious what type of rehab is being used, specifically if water related aerobics might be in play?  

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7 hours ago, wxray1 said:

Canes need offense more than G.

Thanks wxray, I have the same thought and quite surprised to see we are talking about goalie/dman, rather than offense, though there were some talks on the board earlier.

IMO, we need offense badly (at right price of course), and I am not convinced JWilly will help a lot here. Do you think the current roster will go far in the playoffs if we make it?

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5 hours ago, MidnightAngel said:

I think I saw a trading partner tonight in Winnipeg.  They could certainly use a defenseman or two ... with Roslovic coming back.

Maybe in the off-season. They’ve had big injuries in the forward department so, I doubt they looking to move anyone out at this point.

 

maybe a Roslovic’s rights for Fleury’s rights, if Fleury isn’t in our future plans.  Outside of being a RHS roslovic wouldnt answer our 2C need in the off-season.

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So Chicago has gotten itself to within 2 points (bean adjusted) of the playoff cut line, and our goalies have picked it up big time. The idea of going after Lehner has faded into the background for now as both sides have substantially less interest in a trade, especially Chicago. Unless Chicago fades and one of our goalies falters before the deadline, that window is closed. Personally, I'd have some interest in Lehner in free agency still though. 

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3 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

Maybe in the off-season. They’ve had big injuries in the forward department so, I doubt they looking to move anyone out at this point.

 

maybe a Roslovic’s rights for Fleury’s rights, if Fleury isn’t in our future plans.  Outside of being a RHS roslovic wouldnt answer our 2C need in the off-season.

Does raise the question of how closely GM's watch guys on other team's periphery. I would think that would be where the best pick ups would be. To that end, have other teams noticed how well Fleury has played? Has his trade value risen? 

 

Personally, I feel pretty strongly that Fleury's best value is with us. If there has been anything good about our slow play of Fleury into the lineup, it would be that it should lower his next contract's value. I've mentioned it before, but it will be relevant moving forward. Teams need good D men on good contracts. There is a cap and one of the ways to get high skilled guys for the top of the lineup is to have very competent guys paid reasonably at the bottom. 

 

The Fluery slow play also probably lowers his trade value. He's below the radar. Even if we wanted to eventually trade Fleury it'd be better after he became an NHL regular.

 

Personally, I'd lock up Fleury on a longish term deal if the numbers were right. He'd probably take it to get regular ice time to establish himself for his deal after this one, and we'd get a competent D man. But maybe a lot more: Fleury still could have more upside than we've seen. He still has only 117 NHL games, only 1.4 full seasons, and a lot of that broken up with lots of down time in between. It usually takes closer to 200 NHL games for a D man to really get it. If we lock up Fleury on say a 5 year deal with a lowish salary and full trade rights, we could end up with a very good NHL D man who is also relatively cheap. Great for the team, but also a very tradable piece if it came to that.

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6 minutes ago, remkin said:

Does raise the question of how closely GM's watch guys on other team's periphery. I would think that would be where the best pick ups would be. To that end, have other teams noticed how well Fleury has played? Has his trade value risen? 

 

Personally, I feel pretty strongly that Fleury's best value is with us. If there has been anything good about our slow play of Fleury into the lineup, it would be that it should lower his next contract's value. I've mentioned it before, but it will be relevant moving forward. Teams need good D men on good contracts. There is a cap and one of the ways to get high skilled guys for the top of the lineup is to have very competent guys paid reasonably at the bottom. 

 

The Fluery slow play also probably lowers his trade value. He's below the radar. Even if we wanted to eventually trade Fleury it'd be better after he became an NHL regular.

 

Personally, I'd lock up Fleury on a longish term deal if the numbers were right. He'd probably take it to get regular ice time to establish himself for his deal after this one, and we'd get a competent D man. But maybe a lot more: Fleury still could have more upside than we've seen. He still has only 117 NHL games, only 1.4 full seasons, and a lot of that broken up with lots of down time in between. It usually takes closer to 200 NHL games for a D man to really get it. If we lock up Fleury on say a 5 year deal with a lowish salary and full trade rights, we could end up with a very good NHL D man who is also relatively cheap. Great for the team, but also a very tradable piece if it came to that.

I am wondering where Bean fits in while Hamilton is on the mend.  Doesn't Bean offer the primary power play QB Dman in the system, if you disregard Gardiner, who I don't suspect is up to the task?  With TVR, Fleury, Edmundson, and Pesce, they have 4 defensive specialists along with Slavin and Gardiner, who are 2 two way players.  Losing Hamilton puts more emphasis on scoring up front, but then there is Bean.........

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19 minutes ago, beboplar said:

I am wondering where Bean fits in while Hamilton is on the mend.  Doesn't Bean offer the primary power play QB Dman in the system, if you disregard Gardiner, who I don't suspect is up to the task?  With TVR, Fleury, Edmundson, and Pesce, they have 4 defensive specialists along with Slavin and Gardiner, who are 2 two way players.  Losing Hamilton puts more emphasis on scoring up front, but then there is Bean.........

Bean is an excellent point. As we keep buffing up our already deep D with UFA's (CDH, Gardiner), it has really kept our best yutes on the farm or press box.  I guess it's a good problem to have, but as Fleury has shown, to become a good NHL D man, you need to play in NHL games. 

 

I'd defer to our Charlotte members, but Bean has been written about glowingly by Jayson Shaya, and was the first player chosen from the Checkers for the AHL All Star game this year (later joined by Ned). Last season he scored at a .63 ppg clip, and 13 goals. This year he's at .79 ppg and a 15 goal pace. He's the #3 D man in points in the AHL and #4 D man in goals. So he is bringing the offense. Last year he was +17 near tops on the team, this year he's -5 near the bottom BUT the median guy is -1, so that's probably in the range of useless as the stat typically is. Also this year's team has struggled more until recently. Need eyeballs to tell how his D game has been. But the stats are there. 

 

I'm forever biased by how hapless he looked in the NHL a couple of years ago, which is not fair. I suspect he's a lot better now. Love to hear from those who have watched him this year. Who knows if Gardiner continues to struggle, but my own take is that Bean's year is probably next year when TVR moves on, and maybe someone "cough" Gardiner, "cough" maybe gets moved. It does seem like it's about time to get a look at him though.

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Well, went and read Sarah Civ's latest and she included this from Cory Pronman: (he wrote it 6 days ago):

 

“Bean has been a top player for Charlotte this season and has followed up a great rookie pro season with an AHL All-Star appearance as a sophomore. Bean has shown he can handle an expanded role this season, taking on tougher defensive minutes and still improving in that aspect of the game. His main assets are still with the puck, though. He’s a mobile puck-mover with excellent vision. He makes the offense go, from his exits to the way he runs the power play. Bean is getting close to being NHL ready.”

 

Sure sounds like a potential Jake Garninder replacement to me. But still maybe not this year. I don't know.

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I have been high on Bean since we drafted him. I'm not sure his time is now though. Barring another injury to our D corp I would be surprised if Bean gets a call up. Gardiner has been playing better since moving to second pair, Fluery looks like he could be coming into his own since moving back to his neutral side and TVR looks more like the steady Dman he had been before his injury and shoulder surgery.

 

It appears from that almost all the trade rumors indicate we are looking for a Dman. Although moving Gardiner had been widely speculated on it now appears the thinking is with the Hamilton injury he will probable stay put. The latest speculation I have seen is guessing we might be shopping a #1 draft pick for D help.

 

One thing I have learned watching trades in the Waddell era is that he often does the unexpected

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I guess I have to see the deal to get it. I guess Edmundson and TVR are going out next year and we could trade Gardiner at some point. 

 

I would not trade a first rounder for a rental. Dumb. Just Dumb. First, a rental is to get in and go deep in the playoffs one time for a team that is on the verge except for one position. But even if we get in, we'd have to possibly beat Washington, Pittsburgh and Tampa or Boston perhaps, just to get to the finals. That assumes that this added player would get that done. We are a cup contender, but a lower rung contender that is still very young in our quest. We have two firsts and two seconds next year. Those are suddenly gold when the draft comes up, but now, no big deal to trade them for a partial year of a guy? No.

 

So, GM remkin would have to add a guy that we intend to keep. I can see doing this only if that guy is very good and pretty young on the curve. He would have to provide some offense too since we are mainly doing this to replace Dougy. But looking long term, who is on the block if we keep Fleury and Bean coming in? I guess TVR and Edmundson as UFA's, but man Edmundson brings some thump back there and I'd like to keep him. Gardiner would be the eventual guy to try to trade next year. For the future we have Dougie, Slavin and Pesce as a triplet that almost has to stay at this point. IMO Bean and Fleury both stay. That means essentially Edmundson goes, and Gardiner gets traded, and the guy we add is the #4 D man.  Is that worth a first rounder? I guess it depends on the guy, and his deal. 

 

This year we need to probably roll the dice on Gardiner since he has offense in his history. But next year, he could be moved if the new guy is all that. 

 

I just have trouble seeing it play out unless the new guy is 1. Very good overall (ie not a -40 type). 2. Brings offense. 3. Is signed for a few years. 4. Ideally has some physical since long term he probably replaces Edmundson. 

 

I don't know, there's other deals that maybe move out a Bean or Fleury, but to me that's probably selling those guys low. 

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russo show

 

40 minute mark, he seems pretty sure that Haula is unhappy with his usage and the coach.  Cue his interview where he wants be a top line center.  Big surprise here.

 

47 minute mark, he says Carolina is looking for a RHD (no big surprise).

Edited by gocanes0506

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20 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

40 minute mark, he seems pretty sure that Haula is unhappy with his usage and the coach.  Cue his interview where he wants be a top line center.  Big surprise here.

Well, as much as I’d love to keep him and he be happy, he either plays Rod’s way, or he sits and awaits a trade.

 

Do I think he’s a legit 2C?  Absolutely.  But the lingering knee issue is handcuffing him from attaining that.

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22 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

russo show

 

40 minute mark, he seems pretty sure that Haula is unhappy with his usage and the coach.  Cue his interview where he wants be a top line center.  Big surprise here.

 

47 minute mark, he says Carolina is looking for a RHD (no big surprise).

Trade him straight up for Pietrangelo. He's gonna be a UFA also.

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2 hours ago, remkin said:

I guess I have to see the deal to get it.

 

That's the thing. As far as I can tell there is no deal at the moment. Only the sense of what we may be willing to give to get.

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I found it very weird the other day when Williams scored the shootout goal theres a wide picture of him returning to the bench with the entire bench in view. Haula seemed like the only who didn't have near the amount of jubilation the rest of the team had but I figured the camera caught him at the wrong time. Now I'm not sure.

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