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NHL trade deadline talk (Feb. 24, 2020 at 3pm ET)

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16 hours ago, super_dave_1 said:

I don't see a scenario where the Canes become sellers.  The fanbase would not accept that very well.  Because of the strength of the Metro, the Canes are going to be somewhere between 3rd in the Division, and the 7-10 spot in the wildcard race.  After making the playoffs for the first time in a decade last year, I can't see Dundon wanting to throw in the towel.

If the Canes drop to 10th in the East before the 24th I guarantee you that Gardiner, Haula and Van Riemsdyk get moved for picks and prospects.

And I think the fanbase would accept it.  Although I think the chance that the Canes would drop below 8th is remote.

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11 hours ago, MidnightAngel said:

If the Canes drop to 10th in the East before the 24th I guarantee you that Gardiner, Haula and Van Riemsdyk get moved for picks and prospects.

And I think the fanbase would accept it.  Although I think the chance that the Canes would drop below 8th is remote.

I don't see that happening.  TD just seems like to have too much of a competitive personality to give up on Jan 24th.  TVR does not have much trade value, as he is in a contract year and a bottom 6 defenseman.  What does he bring back in return, a 7th round pick?  Teams are going to have concerns over Haula's knee, and he is in a contract year, so he probably yields and 4th round pick.  Gardiner brings 3 more years of contract at > $4M per year, so not expecting the moon in return for him, but I have been advocating they try and move him anyway.  In house, I would prefer they invest the playing time in Bean.

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14 hours ago, MidnightAngel said:

Everybody thought we overpaid for Weight and Recchi back in the day.  Turned out 1.) not to be the case and 2.) who cares if it had been because it won a cup.

 

That was my point, which I apparently didn't make very well.  There are times for a team to be a seller and a time to be a buyer.  The time for the Hurricanes to

be a seller are coming to an end.  It may not be right now, but soon. 

WARNING. I'm coming off a night shift, with some time to burn. As such this one gets a bit long. If you're reading on the phone, it will look even longer!

 

I think you made a good case. I wasn't really just responding to just you, but used your post to expand some thoughts. I don't think there's a right answer every time, but I have tended to drift away from the buying at the trade deadline. But for the fan, buying is way more fun. 

 

Again, my response here, while I'm quoting you, is really more into the ether out there than a direct response as I drift into a broader, theoretical discussion since I'm sleep deprived after a night shift and so this happens....

 

Most fans want the player. Most fans don't want a draft pick. It makes sense as most fans are not particularly interested in looking very long down the road. Draft picks that are not top 3 picks especially, but even those sometimes, either don't pan out, or take a long long time to pan out. First, you are getting a marker. The draft doesn't even take place until after the season and playoffs are over. Then you are getting an 18 year old kid, essentially graduating high school. The In the Canes System part of the board is lightly traveled by viewers. The Juniors and Europeans thread has been up since October 22 and has 406 views. The average game day thread gets 3,000 views in a few days. Just not much broad interest in prospects (and that's on a board of superfans). 

 

But if we got a name NHL player at the deadline? That would get thousands of views. 

 

I guess it's hard enough to keep track of the guys in the sightless eye jersey than to worry about picks that might never amount to anything. 

 

But the draft and develop model is the time honored way to build a juggernaut long-term cup contender, but especially in this small market. And that means a continuous, steady stream of high upside prospects competing for limited NHL slots. And that means drafting and even when you're putting together a very competitive team? Keep compiling picks and some prospects because you cannot be sure which one will become Aho or Slavin or Pesce or Necas. The rare Svech at #2 is the only one that is obvious to most fans. After that, you draft upside and hope for the best. 

 

Luckily this team has been drafting WAY better of late. If one looks from 1997-2008 at our second round picks. That's 12 drafts, second round, one viable NHL player: Jamie "own goal" McBain, who had some skill, but was never really that good. Since 2008 we've picked second rounders including:

 

Faulk, Doumalin, Rask, McGinn, Ned, and Aho in consecutive years, then some guys that could still arrive (Kuok, Loustarinen), and especially IMO, Jack Drury, Jamison Rees and the goalie Kotchetkov. If those last three hit like I think they will, add them to a long list of second round hits. (The general hit rate for even a decent NHL career is about 1 in 4 for second rounders. We have been annihilating that mark, and the three we took in the past two drafts are looking very good so far). So, draft and develop is much more fun when your organization is good at them, which we are.

 

I fully agree that nearly every team needs to round out the picks with trades and even UFA's. My main concern at the deadline is pure rentals. The long view IMO favors selling. Oddly, possibly even selling when your team is good. That's because the deadline carries a massive bias or premium for buying. It is a seller's market. Draft picks, that in July no GM will trade for any reason, fly out the door for that shiny "final piece".  Lately GM's are realizing the mistake a bit more and prices for the rentals have come down a little, but still favoring selling. 

 

There's also the historical fact that by far most rentals don't actually get their team across the line. The Recci (and Weight) situation is the outlier.

 

So from that JR move that worked to many attempts after that which didn't work to now, I simply love where this team has gotten to as an organization. Gone are the days where the only decent picks are the obvious high first rounders. We have scouts and a draft committee that is very good if not excellent. Francis started this, but the committee has quietly kept it going compiling more picks and prospects along the way. While most fans out there don't look too deep into the cupboard (not those on this board of course), those that do will see that not only have we put together a fun, fast, talented, young NHL roster but we've compiled a prospect pool that is mega deep. My latest attempt at ranking the prospects went 17 deep with guys that had a real NHL upside shot, some of whom are killing their leagues even now or had great showings at the WJC. 

 

It doesn't seem that long ago that our best forward prospects were these three guys with no one below them: Zach Dalpe, Zack Boychuk, and Drayson Bowman. We now have guys at #15 that are better than all of them. BUT we have also compiled 2 first round and 2 second round picks in this year's deep draft. Unless we win the lottery again, or somehow pull off the very rare move up, we will pick guys who will have to incubate for around 4 years or more. It will excite a handful of us, but most will be blissfully unaware of our continued packing of our depth in the system. 

 

But then, when a Martin Necas, questioned even this year, arrive on the NHL scene? Or a second rounder with a really weird name (who is Aho?) starts to make noise. Then the excitement meter will peg to high for those guys and the team. And like Tampa, casual fans will ask "how do the Canes keep reloading? Where do they find those players? But we'll know.

 

Last thing. As we become a cap team, and especially if we start winning a lot, we will be frequently up against the cap. We will have to start moving some key, named veterans out rather than pay them. This is where we can re-load with our high end, now much more developed (because there was no room to rush them) prospects. This is where all of that depth can allow us to continue to succeed for years. That's the plan, and luckily TD and the committee are sticking with it.

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7 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

Which last option are you thinking slap, the return of Staal, or the one for Lehner? Or both?

The option of Staal. Most would poo poo a return of Eric. If Haula truly wants out would Eric be an option?  Haula/Gardiner/+ for Staal/Brodin.

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Cardiac Cane always has laughers for trade proposals.  To top that off they said Staal would fit in very well with Rod’s system.

 

if Haula sits for a missed assignment that led to a goal, Eric would never see the ice. His lazy stick checks on D would drive Rod insane. 
 

An extended Haula and Gardiner for Brodin, yes please. Getting Staal, pass.

 

Staal has 17 goals but is on an unsustainable 19 shooting percentage so far. 

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23 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

The option of Staal. Most would poo poo a return of Eric. If Haula truly wants out would Eric be an option?  Haula/Gardiner/+ for Staal/Brodin.

It's not that I would poo poo it slap, but recalling back to the change of the C when Eric took over from Rod, I just wonder if there was some bitterness there? Then too, you'd be getting back into the added dynamics of the brothers united, and how that'd affect the room chemistry? Those are probably nitpicking concerns not unlike concerns many expressed for JWilly's return, but I'd just say that if I had my druthers, I'd go after Kreider.

Edited by KJUNKANE

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58 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

Cardiac Cane always has laughers for trade proposals.  To top that off they said Staal would fit in very well with Rod’s system.

 

if Haula sits for a missed assignment that led to a goal, Eric would never see the ice. His lazy stick checks on D would drive Rod insane. 
 

An extended Haula and Gardiner for Brodin, yes please. Getting Staal, pass.

 

Staal has 17 goals but is on an unsustainable 19 shooting percentage so far. 

I agree Cardiac Cane offers some humorous options and agree that Eric's laziness would drive Rod nuts. His lack of effort is why many wanted him gone. Gardiner + for Brodin....I say yes as well.

Edited by slapshot02

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14 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

It's not that I would poo poo it slap, but recalling back to the change of the C when Eric took over from Rod, I just wonder if there was some bitterness there? Then too, you'd be getting back into the added dynamics of the brothers united, and how that'd affect the room chemistry? Those are probably nitpicking concerns not unlike concerns many expressed for JWilly's return, but I'd just say that if I had my druthers, I'd go after Kreider.

Kreider would be a great add, just dont know what could be enticing to the rags.

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I'm not commenting on past players or coaches coming back.  This team has an interesting history of such and I'm usually wrong about them!

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19 minutes ago, slapshot02 said:

Kreider would be a great add, just dont know what could be enticing to the rags.

A conditional pick based on his resigning, maybe plus a prospect?

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I have never been an Eric Staal hater like some. I don’t think he had anything to do with the C being taken from Rod and given to him. Pretty sure that was all on JR. Rod’s game fell apart his last season, and Staal was still putting up numbers, so I think JR wanted the PR value of making a player who was going to be around the captain. The problem was that he took the C from a natural and born leader and gave it to a reluctant one. Eric was always more suited to wearing an A and supporting someone like Rod or Willy. All that being said, I don’t think Brindy is looking for a 35 year old center and I don’t think Eric has any desire to play here again, except to play with Jordan. Some things are best left alone. I’d like to see Eric signed to a one day contract one day like Cam to retire as a Cane. I think he earned that.

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13 hours ago, cc said:

Thanx but I don’t need my quotes being”fixed”. I submit that since joining Minn. he has averaged 60 plus points per season. That seems to indicate the surroundings or system be at fault. Not “laziness”.  

cc, while I tend to agree that "laziness" is not accurate in a description of Eric Staal, there unquestionably was, toward the end of his time in Raleigh, a change in his drive, such that the descriptor "blasé" might be more accurate? Unfortunately for E Staal also, if I heard it once, I heard it a thousand times, much like Jussi Jokinen, APPARENTLY his skating stride made him look like he was gliding thus if he was judged to be "lazy", that appearance added further evidence to the conclusion. Now I will say that not personally being a skater or ever having played hockey, I have to rely on those that have done so, and John Forslund (admittedly an organization spokesman) was out front with that reflection.

 

Further to bluedevilcanes' point, I think the "C" issue was not of Eric's doing, but whatever, I'd bet it was hurtful to a prideful player?

 

But returning once more to your reflection, I don't think there's any question that Eric's move to Minn. invigorated him, and in a perfect world, with a new system here, and new players surrounding him, it could reasonably be projected that he'd continue on that pace should we trade for him. This however is not a perfect world, otherwise Kobe Bryant would have lived to become an 80 y/o grandfather? Old habits die hard, and I say this as I'd bet Eric regrets several issues here and could revert back to those habits? Add in that Jordan is here, and fingers are being pointed in his direction together with the moniker "Stone Hands", and all of a sudden sibling defense raises it's ugly head.

 

In conclusion, while reuniting the Staal brothers would seem to work well in Fantasy Hockey, I for one would rather sign Eric to a ceremonial "One Day Contract" and yell to the limit of the Noise Meter than bring Eric in to finish this or any other season. Now watch Waddell make complete fool out of me.

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Eric pre and post Captaincy is more of a game changing player. The moment he got that Captaincy his game winning goals went in the crapper. He was usually good for 8 a season and then fell down to 3-4-0-4-0 and has gone back up without that burden in Minnesota. You'd like to see your Captain with that kind of a skillset throwing the team on his back and for 2 of his final 3 years he didn't pot a single game winner. For the things the fans are able to see, that one stings. He just seems like a guy whose better at being a leader without any acknowledgement.

 

That said, I'm not really interested in bringing him back. I just don't want any part of the old locker room mentality having a chance to creep back in. The old mentality has seemed to be trying to knock on the door enough this year. He might be scoring a lot of points in Minny, but it doesn't look like he's found a winning mentality to bring back here.

Edited by legend-1
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I can still picture Staal on one knee behind the opponents goal when the play was already at the other end.  The picture of that "lazy" Staal will never go away for me. Get the heck up and go back to the bench.

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27 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

I can still picture Staal on one knee behind the opponents goal when the play was already at the other end.  The picture of that "lazy" Staal will never go away for me. Get the heck up and go back to the bench.

I'll never get the image of Erik Cole in his first game after the trade, putting his stick blade in Staal's back and pushing him up the ice.

 

Hard pass for me.  Love what the guy did for the team early on, but that ship has sailed.

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15 hours ago, cc said:

Thanx but I don’t need my quotes being”fixed”. I submit that since joining Minn. he has averaged 60 plus points per season. That seems to indicate the surroundings or system be at fault. Not “laziness”.  

I wasnt talking Minnesota. His last 1 1/2 years with Carolina was lackluster and his effort varied from night to night. Numerous articles are available for your viewing if you choose to view about his effort. I was glad to see his career turn around with Minnesota as he always had the talent.

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49 minutes ago, coastal_caniac said:

I can still picture Staal on one knee behind the opponents goal when the play was already at the other end.  The picture of that "lazy" Staal will never go away for me. Get the heck up and go back to the bench.

Or The commentary of Eric calling for a cab to get back to the bench during a line change.

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Just a few previous comments on Eric's play while with Carolina and the Rangers.. "They don't hate him, they're frustrated with his all-too-often lackadaisical play". "He has been lazy leaving zones and changing lines this season, and it's frustrating". "He routinely will meander out of the offensive zone. No rush, no hustle. It sets the tone for the entire time". "Last night we could've had a sweet breakout from a neutral zone turnover, but Princess Staal was taking his time getting out of the zone and further killed our momentum". "He doesn't always skate as hard as he could. This has happened throughout his career and isn't just a "this season" thing. When he moves his feet and skates hard he can create a lot of opportunities. But for whatever reason he sometimes just glides around"."I don't think Staal is consistently lazy, I think the guy is just demoralized". " Eric played ****ing lazy as hell aside from a couple games. One of my most hated rangers in recent years.

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I always said EStaal had the ability to totally carry a team on his back and lead them to victory.  Case in point, the game in Winnipeg when the fans kept chanting 'Jordan's better' and Eric showed everyone in the arena just how good he was.  Problem is he might have done that kind of thing 10 times in over 900 games as a Hurricane.  This team excelled last season because as a group they were playing 'rear-ends and elbows'.  A lot of that playing style has disappeared this season and bringing Eric back would be the opposite of renewing that style.  Plenty of talent that this team could use, but for whatever reason not enough of the work ethic this team needs.  I won't say 'hard pass' necessarily, but i also don't get overly excited at the prospect.

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1 hour ago, slapshot02 said:

Or The commentary of Eric calling for a cab to get back to the bench during a line change.

Or him bending, reaching and leaning when he defends or fore checks instead of moving his feet and using his body.   You will always be 3 steps behind in the NHL if you do that crap. 

Or taking a shot and than taking 3 seconds to look up in the air and pout about it not going in, meanwhile you missed the bus there is already another play going on while you pout.

He must be doing something different though in Minn, he has been producing at a high rate over there. 

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When it comes to E., I always look to Forslund.  He consistently said: "Eric has another gear we need to see more often."

 

When Ronnie Francis slowed down, he spent a lot of time right there in front of the crease.  That was still darn useful, and difficult.

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