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gocanes0506

Canes trade Haula, Wallmark, Priskie, and Eetu the center to FLA for Center Trocheck

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1 minute ago, AWACSooner said:

Find me any NHL team who’s nailed all their firsts 

 

:popcorn:

 

We can agree to disagree here.  I'm not confident with the goal tending.  Esp since they are struggling in the AHL.

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OK the numbers:

 

Trochek:

 

This year's remkin projections for a full year

 

15 Goals, 39 Assists, 54 Points. (He has played 54 games projected to 82 with these numbers). 

 

Ironically, he played exactly 54 games last year and has almost identical numbers (again projected). 

 

So, for two years over 108 games his stat line adjusted for a full season is pretty well set at:

 

15 Goals, 39 Assists, 54 points.

 

The stat line for the top 2C's and the Bottom 2C's in the NHL: (a legit 2C should fall in this range):

 

Top: 21 Goals, 32 assists 53 points

Bottom: 17 Goals, 27 assists 44 points

 

So, even in his post injury state, the current Trochek is a legit 2C. He is a high end playmaker, lower end goal scorer, overall top point getter. While goals are rightly more valuable than assists (since there are two assists for most goals), still a center who makes plays is what we need for our lower lines because ironically outside of Dzingel, we don't have playmakers below the top line. 

 

Just to put things in general perspective, Teravainen only has 13 goals. If we had just traded for him, would anyone care about that? This is just to make a point because Turbo is a maestro playmaker, that Trocheck is not. But at a second line level he is above the high end for assists for the best 2C's in the league.

 

What about defense? That is much trickier. I'm sure there are advanced stats on that. As to the much reviled +/-? He trends on the down side of his team, but just barely avoids being enough of an outlier that I'd be comfortable saying that's an issue since so many things go into +/-. He trends to the bottom quartile of his team the last few years and has not recently been in the top half. It would cause me mild concern, but here I'm trusting our numbers guys to have looked into this more fully.

 

There is also the synergy thing. If he is playing on a team that is trying to lock down the D, and depending on his line mates, he may put up better numbers with our up tempo game. Also, and this is a stretch, but if Hoffman et all in Florida have had a negative room and environment, he could feel rejuvenated like Nino was when he first got here. (Yes, he fell back, but he seems to be coming on a bit now, and he was still a big part of last year's push).

 

Finally, there is the upside. I don't know if he'll ever get back to it, but if he does? Well: 35 goals, 44 assists, and 75 points. That is top 1C goals, and above average 1C assists. 

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1 minute ago, gocanes0506 said:

With this trade we lose our 5th round pick.  The conditions for the pick in the original trade were met with this trade.

The condition that we don’t keep Haula?

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2 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

The condition that we don’t keep Haula?

we traded Roy and a Conditional 5th rounder to Vegas.  The condition being if we traded Haula for player(s) or pick(s) in round 1-5.

Edited by gocanes0506
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1 minute ago, gocanes0506 said:

we traded Roy and a Conditional 5th rounder to Vegas.  The condition being if we traded Haula for player(s) or pick(s) in round 1-5.

No worries...when’s the last time one of our fifth rounders actually had an impact on the team?

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One more fun with numbers thing. Our projected productivity for our current (or recently current) second line and below centers, and Trochuk:

 

Current numbers projected for a full season and the NHL average line placement for those numbers:

 

Staal: 11 goals, 20 assists, 31 points (below 3C on goals, low end 3C on assists).

Wallmark: 15 goals, 16 assists, 31 points (high 3C on goals, low 3C on points, below 3C on assists)

Haula: 4 goals, 12 assists, 16 points * (4C)

Trochek: 15 goals, 39 assists, 54 points (1C on assists, high end 3C on goals).

 

*OK, I said fun with numbers. Haula is projected from his last 20 games. But that's what we've been getting from him. He was unrealistically on fire early in the year, and if one puts that in, his projections are:

 

Haula: 24 goals, 20 assists, 44 points. (low 1C goals, low 3C on assists). Again, we are not getting anything close to this in his last 20 games.

 

Even with the white hot Haula from earlier, (that we have not seen in months) folded in, he is light on the apples. He was not making players around him better. So when the goals shut off, he became highly ineffective.

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Like the player, like the trade.

 

Watching Trocheck over the years, my take is he has skill, a great shot, good skater, and he seems very competitive/hates to lose. I think he’ll be a good to great fit here.

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Last thing (yeah right) on the numbers for Trocheck. While assists can be seen as less valuable than goals, as Turbo shows, guys with very high assist numbers are probably making plays that are leading to a net gain in offense. They are making plays for other players, making them better. Whatever wingers we put him with, there is the potential for him to raise their games also. As the numbers above point out, and the case I've been making recently, our centers are just not great playmakers. Even Aho excels more as a goal scorer, though he creates a lot of offense too, but below him our centers are not great overall, but are particularly low on assists and playmaking. I haven't watched Trocheck that much, but his high assist number at least suggest that in his current state (post injury) he is still a high end 2C playmaker.

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Just now, remkin said:

Last thing (yeah right) on the numbers for Trochek.

I’m holding you to this...no more posting on this thread ;)

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4 minutes ago, AWACSooner said:

I’m holding you to this...no more posting on this thread ;)

This coming from you?  Now thats funny.

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49 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

 

Until we watch Ned and Forsling get lit up.  Then you and others will start crying like little girls as to why we didn't grab a goalie.


Not me pal...I think for the long term when it comes to my hockey team just like I do for my personal financial investments. Short sighted management like we used to get from Rutherford led to 10+ years of misery here, a half empty arena each night, and rumors of the team leaving town. You really want to go back to those dark days?

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If we're trying to get Skjei, we better like him a lot because he's contracted for 5 years after this one at $5.2M per. I guess he does not have a NTC, so there's that.

 

He's a LHD though, so not sure how we roll around that. Oh, I know, Fleury gets to sit again. Or maybe we send a guy their way. Heck maybe Fleury himself. Maybe long term we move Gardiner in the offseason? Maybe he's part of the deal?

 

 

OK, I really don't know Skjei. If the Rangers locked him up for all those years and all that money they must have liked him, but then why bail now?

 

 

Anyways, anyone have any thoughts on Skjei? Long term? For the money?

 

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I’m on the fence with Skjei...from the little I’ve watched him, I haven’t seen the gaffes for him I’ve seen Gardiner and TVR commit...but the $ and term concern me, A LOT!

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16 minutes ago, thickburglar said:

 

 

 

This is why the Canes are a class act  organization ,   Priskie   wanted to go to florida  but signed with us  and we did right by him and  Fox and Marleau 

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4 hours ago, remkin said:

OK the numbers:

 

Trochek:

 

This year's remkin projections for a full year

 

15 Goals, 39 Assists, 54 Points. (He has played 54 games projected to 82 with these numbers). 

 

Ironically, he played exactly 54 games last year and has almost identical numbers (again projected). 

 

So, for two years over 108 games his stat line adjusted for a full season is pretty well set at:

 

15 Goals, 39 Assists, 54 points.

 

The stat line for the top 2C's and the Bottom 2C's in the NHL: (a legit 2C should fall in this range):

 

Top: 21 Goals, 32 assists 53 points

Bottom: 17 Goals, 27 assists 44 points

 

So, even in his post injury state, the current Trochek is a legit 2C. He is a high end playmaker, lower end goal scorer, overall top point getter. While goals are rightly more valuable than assists (since there are two assists for most goals), still a center who makes plays is what we need for our lower lines because ironically outside of Dzingel, we don't have playmakers below the top line. 

 

Just to put things in general perspective, Teravainen only has 13 goals. If we had just traded for him, would anyone care about that? This is just to make a point because Turbo is a maestro playmaker, that Trocheck is not. But at a second line level he is above the high end for assists for the best 2C's in the league.

 

What about defense? That is much trickier. I'm sure there are advanced stats on that. As to the much reviled +/-? He trends on the down side of his team, but just barely avoids being enough of an outlier that I'd be comfortable saying that's an issue since so many things go into +/-. He trends to the bottom quartile of his team the last few years and has not recently been in the top half. It would cause me mild concern, but here I'm trusting our numbers guys to have looked into this more fully.

 

There is also the synergy thing. If he is playing on a team that is trying to lock down the D, and depending on his line mates, he may put up better numbers with our up tempo game. Also, and this is a stretch, but if Hoffman et all in Florida have had a negative room and environment, he could feel rejuvenated like Nino was when he first got here. (Yes, he fell back, but he seems to be coming on a bit now, and he was still a big part of last year's push).

 

Finally, there is the upside. I don't know if he'll ever get back to it, but if he does? Well: 35 goals, 44 assists, and 75 points. That is top 1C goals, and above average 1C assists. 

 

4 hours ago, remkin said:

Last thing (yeah right) on the numbers for Trocheck. While assists can be seen as less valuable than goals, as Turbo shows, guys with very high assist numbers are probably making plays that are leading to a net gain in offense. They are making plays for other players, making them better. Whatever wingers we put him with, there is the potential for him to raise their games also. As the numbers above point out, and the case I've been making recently, our centers are just not great playmakers. Even Aho excels more as a goal scorer, though he creates a lot of offense too, but below him our centers are not great overall, but are particularly low on assists and playmaking. I haven't watched Trocheck that much, but his high assist number at least suggest that in his current state (post injury) he is still a high end 2C playmaker.

 

Rem- I see where you're coming from, but those are all numbers in a vacuum.  Panthers have a bunch of good goal scorers on their team (Barkov, Huberdeau, Hoffman, Dadanov all over 20 goals, Acciari 19, Connolly 18). I read that Q even played Trocheck with Barkov and Huberdeau for a while to try to kickstart his scoring.  We have what I'd call 2 scorers, Aho and Svech (Haula started out but disappeared and Dougie blew a tire). It will be interesting to see how Trocheck's assist totals translate from Florida to Carolina given who he's likely to be playing with.  

 

Hope I'm not coming across as trying to make a case against Trocheck.  In actuality I'm just trying to make sense of a number of different factors in anticipation of what to expect.  Heck, maybe some of those Florida forwards score a lot because they've got Trocheck setting them up.  Maybe Nino, Dzingel, or Necas will explode, lol.      

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Oh, and really glad that rather than getting "shipped out" we may have developed Priske some and then sent him home.  He certainly doesn't seem upset with the move. :grin:

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