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Covid 19 virus inpacts sports, NHL,Season Tix other impacts

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8 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

The title of this thread is "Covid 19 Virus Inpacts Sports, NHL, Season Tix Other Impacts"

 

I find it interesting that you're apparently good with other participants' posts about how wrong (or not) the experts were, how it's totally safe (or not) to reopen the economy, etc. etc.--when there is absolutely no proof of any of those things. For all ANY of us knows, the scrubbing of the season and the state-imposed restrictions which followed prevented the Canes from returning from their game in Jersey to create a Raleigh hot spot. If not, there'd have been three more chances for that to happen within the week, because they were scheduled to host the Pens (and their fans, who, I'll admit, are diseased even without a virus afoot...), to travel to Buff, and to host Buff two days later.  

 

So, there's your hockey. Now, some "other impacts":

 

One of Mrs. Shelf's friends from childhood, who now lives near Buffalo, put money down on an OBX rental for themselves and three other NY couples last year--for next week. They have been told they can't get a refund of their deposit because the county is officially "open." Did the ability to say that factor into county commissioners' lifting of restrictions? Into Cooper's? Would the rental company do the same thing to renters who are in-state (i.e., who are more likely to take them to court, since attending a hearing is more convenient for NC residents)?

 

If you'd rather not consider/discuss such questions, that's fine. The same goes for posts about how wrong the experts were (or were not), about whether the current resident of the White House (which by the way is OUR White House) made a bad decision in demurring on WHO tests, thus delaying adequate testing right up to this moment, etc. But when you cry "politics" just because I and others are willing to consider and discuss them, you only feed the divisions that are already too widespread for our democracy's own good, and which have allowed the conviction that something called "alternative facts" actually exist to gain traction.

After you ill advised political rant days back that was hidden, all of your posts have a different tone. Right, wrong, or indifferent, that is the way it is.  

Edited by gocanes0506

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10 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

I think we’d be looking at the top 4 from each conference get a bye (top 2 in each division) The next 8 play a 3 game play-in.

 

Pens vs Mtl

Canes vs Florida

Tor/CBJ vs NYR

Tor/CBJ vs NYI

 

just speculation on my part

That would be what I was thinking too, since that would be 4 total byes. 

 

Interesting though because while I'd rather have the bye than take a 50-50 chance of getting knocked out, teams coming off of series would be a very good bet for at least game one of the series vs bye teams, since they will have played at least two playoff games vs a team not having played in forever. Maybe they scrimmage the bye teams but it's still not the same. Might have been a little part of why they wanted some regular season first, to get a couple of games in for the bye teams.

 

While I personally think it's unfair to let say MTL in, who were 10 points (and with a game out of hand) out with no chance* in heck when this ended, the temptation to include more teams will be just too great. Basically the only teams not making it will be the flat out embarrassingly terrible teams. This in a league that already lets over half the teams in. This year 77% of the league would get into the playoffs.  

 

At the least they should make the top team in the play in the home team for every game, if not spot them a goal. 

 

*Montreal's chance at making the playoffs when it went down: 3 in 10,000. Montreal should be paying someone if they get in.

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18 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

In case you haven't noticed, politicians are the ones making decisions about how fast and when to reopen. Our own Governor is pushing forward with Phase One reopening, despite the today's highest-ever case count in the state. That is an incremental and justifiably questionable step toward a return to "normal," including toward the return of hockey.

 

It's tempting to pretend that politics and the pandemic are unrelated, but that's all it is: pretending. And doing so can be as dangerous--maybe more dangerous--than the virus. If you disagree, ask any Michigan senator how they felt about having people with assault rifles in the balcony of their chamber, and then think about what prompted it. No president of any party should foment violent dissent, and if my saying so makes you uncomfortable, there's an ignore button.

 

I want to say that I don't care for politics whatsoever.  I disdain party association and believe it would be beneficial to our society if political parties were disbanded.  When politicians such as Mitch McConnell start pushing for sports to be restarted on the basis of nothing more than $ being pushed into his pockets, politics unfortunately ventures into the world of sports.  When politicians make comments such as "more deaths occur on our roads than have been associated with covid19 and we don't shut roads down do we?", well one does start to wonder whether Americans are really in control of who we elect, and not outside forces.  This is about as political as I can get, so my apologies if I am crossing the line here.  Gov Chistie's comments about we need to accept death as the cost in order to start up the economy, well, Mr. Christie, can I please nominate you and your family to lead the way.

 

In my geographic world I have been so proud of the politicians that have lead a responsible recovery to the pandemic.  I have foregone my season tickets to the San Diego Gulls season as a cost that I am willing to bear.  Players, fans, and others working in arenas and stadiums should not be put in harms way just to line the pockets of the few and mighty.

Edited by beboplar
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Gary is spraying into the wind imo if he believes any type of Covid Season is doable.  On the one hand it would be (for hockey fans) a much needed pause from the '25/7' coverage of this pandemic.  On the other hand and apologies on repetitiveness, but the logistics of pulling this off are totally laughable.  Sanitize 4 stadiums then bubble wrap them? Everyone in the bubble gets tested how often vs. the negative image the NHL will garner by having a 1,000 or so tests every week for all those invited to live in the bubble vs. Joe Public who cant even get one? Will it be a see you later proposition to the families of players and entourage for 2-3 months?  NHLPA will allow players to be put at risk? And what if even one player or entourage member shows positive during this abridged season?

 

Bettman needs to put the bottle of JD  down.  Be a leader in a time of crisis. Call it. Hell, its questionable at this very moment if next season even begins on time.  Right now the focus should be on having a successful draft and tackling the myriad of issues with trades that took place and all the clauses involved and all the other minutia that needs resolution.  Last, how many players even want to continue? Id like to see that pole. Players are safer at home. They know it and so do the Suits. Gary is fanning on the shot here.

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I just don't see how there can be a meaningful resumption of the season (playoffs) no matter what format would be used. Social distancing aside how do you handle international travel for players. The players are scattered all over the world. The players would need to travel even if only limited locations are used across the US/Canada border. I guess we could use one site for a playoff format.

 

Honestly I don't see it happening. I have moved on to next season even with its uncertainty.

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52 minutes ago, remkin said:

That would be what I was thinking too, since that would be 4 total byes. 

 

Interesting though because while I'd rather have the bye than take a 50-50 chance of getting knocked out, teams coming off of series would be a very good bet for at least game one of the series vs bye teams, since they will have played at least two playoff games vs a team not having played in forever. Maybe they scrimmage the bye teams but it's still not the same. Might have been a little part of why they wanted some regular season first, to get a couple of games in for the bye teams.

 

While I personally think it's unfair to let say MTL in, who were 10 points (and with a game out of hand) out with no chance* in heck when this ended, the temptation to include more teams will be just too great. Basically the only teams not making it will be the flat out embarrassingly terrible teams. This in a league that already lets over half the teams in. This year 77% of the league would get into the playoffs.  

 

At the least they should make the top team in the play in the home team for every game, if not spot them a goal. 

 

*Montreal's chance at making the playoffs when it went down: 3 in 10,000. Montreal should be paying someone if they get in.

The crazy thing is I like the Florida matchup for us. Mrazek seems to have their number.

 

BUT

 

everyone will be cold so, who can put it together the quickest.  
 

barring any injuries the play-in teams may be better suited for first round play than the teams with byes. We may seem some early wins by play in teams against the top opponents. It’ll be a battle for them to get back into it.

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24 minutes ago, OBXer said:

Honestly I don't see it happening. I have moved on to next season even with its uncertainty.

Yup. There is no way the players union risks exposing guys. Bettman is showing why he got out of lawyering: He's unable to think rationally. Of course, we already knew that, given his (lack of) seriousness about ending head shots.

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2 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

all of your posts have a different tone

I beg to differ. I've always called out stupidity when I've seen it, and let y'all delete my posts if you don't like 'em. When a country reopens while cases and deaths in the very areas it is opening are still on the rise, there's just one word for it: stupid.

 

Rem has posted how the experts "were all wrong" because "the patients never showed up"--never mentioning the possibility that they were all right--that their advice to shut everything down is why the patients never showed up. Either way, isn't minimizing patients the whole point? 

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26 minutes ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Yup. There is no way the players union risks exposing guys. Bettman is showing why he got out of lawyering: He's unable to think rationally. Of course, we already knew that, given his (lack of) seriousness about ending head shots.

I am not too sure.

 

The players and union are aware of what not getting the 400-500 million TV dollars by not playing the playoffs will do to their current and future earnings potential.

 

while I assume the players nixed the idea of locking themselves in one city away from family for 4 months to get through training camp 2.0, finish the season, and postseason, I believe they would do it for 2 months to finish out the playoffs and get have the playoff money get the league back into the black. In theory 2/3rds the league will be back home by week 5 of this.  Only the final 4 teams are making a big sacrifice. Also less logistics cost too.

 

also the sooner they do this, the more uninterrupted time they get with all of America / Canada.  

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3 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Got a link?

 

2 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

NBC

 

I read—well, ok, skimmed—about six or so articles yesterday that said pretty much the same thing.  Here’s one from the NY Post for example: https://nypost.com/2020/05/07/nhl-restart-would-go-directly-into-24-team-stanley-cup-tournament/.  I don’t recall if any of them really directly cited the source of their info but it may have been from players and what they’re hearing from the League,  The Minneapolis StarTribune had this good update from Dubnyk, the Wild’s union rep https://www.startribune.com/wild-s-dubnyk-on-nhl-restart-i-m-not-interested-in-packing-up-and-going-away/570287352/ on what he’s hearing and general outlook.

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This 24 team playoff will probably never happen, for all the reasons already talked about (read as many pages back as you wish).

 

However, just for the sake of the discussion (more fun to talk about than the rest of this), take the premise that it does happen...

 

Young teams would have a definite advantage over old teams, this layoff would not be easy for the older players to recover from.  I would like the Canes chances in a tournament like this.

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They may just be planning for something that never happens, or it might. I've stuck with it happening, but I'm not saying I'd bet the house. 

 

NC just went into the next phase of loosening. We'll see what happens. The general environment keeps changing. My bet is that it changes fast enough for this to happen. I could be wrong. Clearly not everyone agrees. That makes an interesting discussion (for the most part). 

 

I maintain my prediction that it will not lead to such a big flex up that we need to re close, though we will have to endure a lot of stories about every area that has a breakout. 

 

BTW I have mentioned several times that the lockdowns might have flattened the curve. It would seem to be common sense that they did, though common sense is wrong surprisingly often in medicine. My point is that we flattened more than we need to in the vast majority of places, and several states that did not lock down did as well as those that did. We are in a different place than we were even three weeks ago. The biggest problem now is this thing never ending*. That's where 90% of the risk is now. Just heard a great discussion by an historian of the Spanish flu epidemic. The only lock downs they did then was cutting down on going out after work. This is an unparalleled lock down in US history. Not acknowledging that is a problem too. Anyone who says they know what the effects of that will be is fooling themselves. JP Morgan says it will be 10 years before the employment rate returns to pre virus levels. I don't know. There are multiple sides to this issue. 

 

* OK not "never" ending, but the end of it being pushed out so far as to get the same death rate but with economic devastation. 

 

NHL is also talking about 20 team format, and 16. 

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35 minutes ago, cc said:

No worries. The citizens won’t put up with it. That includes me.  

 

Clearly this can't go on indefinitely. But you do realize that as of the latest polls more people felt the emphasis shoud be on saving lives vs. restarting the economy?

 

I'm sure the longer we're out the more the tide will turn.  But until then, are you suggesting that a vocal minority should drive policy? You say you won't put up with it; I'm curious, what's your next move if we don't open up as fast as you'd like?      

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4 hours ago, hag65 said:

This 24 team playoff will probably never happen, for all the reasons already talked about (read as many pages back as you wish).

 

However, just for the sake of the discussion (more fun to talk about than the rest of this), take the premise that it does happen...

 

Young teams would have a definite advantage over old teams, this layoff would not be easy for the older players to recover from.  I would like the Canes chances in a tournament like this.

 

I agree, young teams will have an advantage.  I also think the teams that play in the play-in series will have an advantage over those with the bye.

 

Will it happen?  We’ll see.  UFC has matches this weekend, NASCAR races the following week, Indy Car and the PGA in June, MLB and NBA are both looking at July.  If the NHL is shooting for an August Stanley Cup tournament, they’ll have some time to take notes on what works or doesn’t in these other sports.

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14 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

 

Clearly this can't go on indefinitely. But you do realize that as of the latest polls more people felt the emphasis shoud be on saving lives vs. restarting the economy?

 

Are we saving lives?  The cat is out of the bag, the virus will not go away.  It didn't go away during the strictest lockdown, so it is here to stay.  Right now, the hospitals are not overloaded in NC, so treatment protocols are occurring.  Of course, treatments will get better and vaccines hopefully appear, but that's going to be a long haul.  It is unknown if we can push enough people out to the end of the curve to take advantage of treatment improvements.  It is my personal hope that if I got this, it would be at the end of the curve when treatment protocols are best.

 

Polls these days are leading polls, meant to create more discord and discourse than to actually be scientific.  If all I did all day was watch the TV news, not only would I want everything closed, I might consider finding some drugs to blank my mind. 

 

I made a prediction about all this over two months ago in this thread on March 31.  I think the prediction still stands.  No hockey and no cup this year.  And next year's season is in serious doubt.

 

So even though I support limited reopening as our governor and his office propose, I also realize this probably won't be compatible with hockey.   Hockey is nothing, the limited reopening of the economy needs to go to a wider group first, as it is with the proposal.  And mass group gatherings like crowds at the arena?  It just can't happen for a long time.  Probably a year.

 

There's a middle ground here about the virus, we don't have to be 100% lockdown or let's bump bodies and slobber all over each other*. (BTW, the "minority" in the polls is close to 50).

 

UFC, NASCAR and Pro Golf are very different.  Isolation is possible to various degrees.  With team sports it is not.  A virus racing through a team could take it out of competition for weeks.  Then what?  And players won't work without their families for months.  That's clear from the interviews we've heard.  So there is no isolation in either direction.  Players can get it, and players can give it, maybe to someone vulnerable.  Just because players are young and have young kids doesn't make them invincible.  What if the kid as RA?  What if the player is type II diabetic?

 

BTW, let me get on top-shelf and others side on one thing: if the sports teams start saying they are doing daily 15 min rapid turn around tests on everyone, and we are NOT doing that for every congregate living/nursing home employee, then we have a very, very messed up society.  That kind of resource needs to go to the front line first.

 

* - bumping bodies and slobbering on each other sure sounds like fun though.  Man, I miss it.

Edited by wxray1

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50 minutes ago, wxray1 said:

It didn't go away during the strictest lockdown,

This is not true. The strictest lockdowns have been roundly successful: S. Korea, Germany, Vietnam, Wuhan. 

 

The first two have opened back up... or had, because now there's this.

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1 hour ago, wxray1 said:

* - bumping bodies and slobbering on each other sure sounds like fun though.  Man, I miss it.

x10,000

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Quote wxray1 -  If the sports teams start saying they are doing daily 15 min rapid turn around tests on everyone, and we are NOT doing that for every congregate living/nursing home employee, then we have a very, very messed up society.  That kind of resource needs to go to the front line first.

 

This would really tick me off if any sports team opens back up and then tests all involved every so often.   You are correct....this would be a very messed up society if we allowed that to happen.   What really gets my goat (and this is not political) is now our Great Leaders will be tested daily.   The same ones that continue to not follow common sense protocol by being an example to us by wearing masks when in public.   The arrogance is nauseating.   And please don't bother with this is a political statement.   It is more of a statement of setting a bad example and lack of leadership skills.  Do as I say not as I do @(^_^)@ !!

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Snuffy, won't disagree.  Some other leaders (look it up, crosses parties) have had hair cuts and been coiffed on the sly, while telling their subjects to cut their own hair.

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BTW, you all know there is a BEER SALE today, right?   Socially distanced, do not need to get out of the car, no change given, etc.  I just came back, and sales were brisk.  Not sure how long it will last.  Stormy and Don Waddell were saying "hi" to everyone in line.  I figure this is a covid-19 inpact [sic] since they couldn't sell it in the area.

 

Quote

Storm Brew Sale!

 

Stop by PNC Arena on May 9th to get 24-packs of 16 oz Storm Brew for just $15!

STMs can visit us from 10-11AM and the general public sale will run from 11AM-2:00 PM or until the beer is sold out. Please enter PNC Arena property from Edwards Mill Road onto Stephen Stroud Way and remain on the road. In order to maintain a safe environment, our staff will be wearing masks and gloves and will load the product into customers’ cars.

Cash only – Exact change. Must present valid ID. No tailgating permitted.

 

Edited by wxray1

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2 hours ago, wxray1 said:

BTW, you all know there is a BEER SALE today, right?   Socially distanced, do not need to get out of the car, no change given, etc.  I just came back, and sales were brisk.  Not sure how long it will last.  Stormy and Don Waddell were saying "hi" to everyone in line.  I figure this is a covid-19 inpact [sic] since they couldn't sell it in the area.

 

I was there too, sales were brisk and Waddell even loaded one of the cases in my vehicle.  I wasn’t sure if I was supposed to tip him... 🤔😂

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6 hours ago, wxray1 said:

Are we saving lives?  The cat is out of the bag, the virus will not go away.  It didn't go away during the strictest lockdown, so it is here to stay.  Right now, the hospitals are not overloaded in NC, so treatment protocols are occurring.  Of course, treatments will get better and vaccines hopefully appear, but that's going to be a long haul.  It is unknown if we can push enough people out to the end of the curve to take advantage of treatment improvements.  It is my personal hope that if I got this, it would be at the end of the curve when treatment protocols are best.

 

Polls these days are leading polls, meant to create more discord and discourse than to actually be scientific.  If all I did all day was watch the TV news, not only would I want everything closed, I might consider finding some drugs to blank my mind. 

 

I made a prediction about all this over two months ago in this thread on March 31.  I think the prediction still stands.  No hockey and no cup this year.  And next year's season is in serious doubt.

 

So even though I support limited reopening as our governor and his office propose, I also realize this probably won't be compatible with hockey.   Hockey is nothing, the limited reopening of the economy needs to go to a wider group first, as it is with the proposal.  And mass group gatherings like crowds at the arena?  It just can't happen for a long time.  Probably a year.

 

There's a middle ground here about the virus, we don't have to be 100% lockdown or let's bump bodies and slobber all over each other*. (BTW, the "minority" in the polls is close to 50).

 

UFC, NASCAR and Pro Golf are very different.  Isolation is possible to various degrees.  With team sports it is not.  A virus racing through a team could take it out of competition for weeks.  Then what?  And players won't work without their families for months.  That's clear from the interviews we've heard.  So there is no isolation in either direction.  Players can get it, and players can give it, maybe to someone vulnerable.  Just because players are young and have young kids doesn't make them invincible.  What if the kid as RA?  What if the player is type II diabetic?

 

BTW, let me get on top-shelf and others side on one thing: if the sports teams start saying they are doing daily 15 min rapid turn around tests on everyone, and we are NOT doing that for every congregate living/nursing home employee, then we have a very, very messed up society.  That kind of resource needs to go to the front line first.

 

* - bumping bodies and slobbering on each other sure sounds like fun though.  Man, I miss it.

 

In case it wasn't clear, I wasn't taking an intractable position against opening up, just pointing out that opinions are mixed and still leaning towards safety (although that will reverse the longer we stay locked down).  Your points on polling are well taken; one needs to look at how questrions are asked and the population responding to gauge how much credibility they deserve. I think my biggest concern is that we shouldn't be overly influenced by a handful of zealots on one extreme end or another (e.g.,  protesters with assault rifles lining a capitol balcony and ignoring even the most basic safety suggestions).   

 

Are we saving lives?  Great question.  I believe we probably did save lives to date by locking down, and would have saved more if we had locked down sooner.  Right now? I think that depends on how we reopen.  There seems to be an implicit assumption among some that the area under the death curve is a constant; it's just a matter of how it's distributed (with an obvious critical need to avoid overwhelming the medical system).  I don't necessarily agree with that; I hope we've learned enough during the lockdown, and better prepared ourselves, that even if the virus stays we'll be able to reduce the overall death count until we get to the point that there's a viable treatment / vaccine, even though neither will be here in the short term.   

 

If you look back at some of my posts you'll see that I'm not against reopening in a well planned, rational fashion; I believe I was the only one to endorse Rem's plan, lol. Sad to say, I'm less optimistic about our ability to do so today than I was just a week or so ago.  It has become pretty obvious to me that our current administration is pushing to reopen as quickly as possible but with a frightening disregard for safety.  I'll be ready to reopen when I know there are plans to protect at risk populations, and we've got sufficient PPE supplies not just for the medical community, but for the general population, as well.  I want to see plenty of cheap, disposable face masks and disinfectant wipes on the local store shelves.  I'd love to see sufficient accurate antibody testing to know just where our population is with respect to the virus.  We need to get our . . . stuff together;  just reopening and wishing covid doesn't hit too hard isn't a good plan of action, imo (not addressed to you, wx).

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