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Should the Canes Pay John What he is owed ?

Should the Canes pay the man ?  

30 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the Canes pay John Forslund what he Deserves ?



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I went with deep! Here's why.

1. I believe John's talents exceed his position as local team man.

2. I believe that just cause someone "earns" a certain amount through effort that every position pay match that effort. If Bobby Flay worked at McDonalds he would still get paid on McDonalds schedule not based on his skill.

3. I want John to stay, but he is worth more then the position pays so if he doesnt stay I understand both side and wish him well.

4. GO CANES

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I am confused as to the term "what is Owed".  Who decided what this is?  Cant really answer the poll unless this is known.

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2 hours ago, cc said:

I am confused as to the term "what is Owed".  Who decided what this is?  Cant really answer the poll unless this is known.

I believe what is meant is what his talent level earns him. Which again is far more then a local announcer would make

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Is he in or out? Please tell me he is in- canes hockey would just be weird without him- I’m not ready to “move on” come on canes-make it happen!

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John has been paid what he is owed--every freakin' dime. He signed the contracts and cashed the checks himself. He is owed nothing now, because he is not under contract. 

 

It's called business, people. You don't have to like it, but just because it's sports doesn't mean it's not still business.

 

This doesn't even warrant a derp.

 

Edited by top-shelf-1
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I’ve been absent from the board since early March and just heard about this Forslund situation from Sara on Twitter. Is there a separate thread on this subject?
 

I think we all knew John would eventually leave for greener pastures but the way this is seemingly being handled by Dundon is extremely bush league IMO. I love Mike Maniscalco but him replacing a legend like Forslund??? You gotta he kidding me!

Edited by RickD_99
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Since I was 13 or 14 I watched John and Tripp.  Even through those weird 2000 era years.  I am now 36 years old.  I can't imagine watching games without John and Tripp.  They are very good.  Other fans of other teams agree too.

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I just spent a good 3 hours catching up on the Forslund situation in the Hurricanes Talk thread...really fascinating back and forth between Top and Rem. I can now definitely see both sides of the situation...bottom line is that it will hurt big time to lose John on the PBP. But to paraphrase John himself: “that’s business baby!”

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Last night the Preds actually showed a classic game called by John and Tripp.  October 1998!  (Preds won their first game ever against the Canes.)

 

Tripp was better than remembered.  John was good, although you could see he was still evolving.

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3 hours ago, wxray1 said:

John was good, although you could see he was still evolving.

And this is what I hope the people hating on Shaya or Mike will remember. Anybody who has ever tried to do PBP will tell you that it is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay harder than the best in the business make it sound. It takes years and years of practice, which means calling high school and college games for zero dollars, by the time you factor in the expenses that the stations in those markets cannot afford to reimburse you for. But the best stick with it, get good, and move up. That's why they're the best.

 

John has now reached that level, and based on what we know, on the record, he wants the best of both worlds: To eat at restaurants without being pestered for his autograph, but to get paid like he's in New York. It has never worked that way. What all the hard work to get to this level earns you is two things: The privilege of being called the best, and the ability to choose one or the other: staying local or joining The Show. If you are extremely lucky, your home team's owner gives you permission to miss a few games so you can moonlight for The Show and pad your wallet. John has enjoyed that for years now, and (again, based on what we know) he still can--he just has to agree to be paid by the game, rather than getting a fixed amount whether he does 82 or 75. In short, TD is saying, "I'll pay you when you work for me, just like NBC does." Seem pretty reasonable to me.  

Edited by top-shelf-1
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A lot of big companies have asked employees to take a temporary pay cut during the pandemic. It's really not unreasonable for TD to do the same for off ice employees to do the same. I wish John and TD could have reached an agreement.

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So apparently MM is calling the playoff games but the door is still "open" for John for any regular season. From what I'm reading that means the door is still open for John to take the new and reduced deal, not for more negotiations. Mike gets a tryout basically. I would predict that Mike will do better than Shaya, so there's that. This is still a big mistake IMO, but we'll see how it goes.

 

Just got a big email for STH talking about the next season.

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I thought the playoffs were national games. NHL.TV better be caring these or there will be HELL TO PAY... actually I will just be mad but they better be broadcasting these games

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I don't know anything about the money side, but I will say this:  I watched every single Hurricanes game on tv this year and last year.  John Forslund is a big part of the product.  It won't be the same without him.  He and Tripp are amazing together.  Just fabulous.  Mike and Tripp....I don't know, I think I'm going to skip it.

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As we become a playoff contender again, it just seems like a no-brainer that you would want to keep John as the play-by-play man. It's one thing to have Mike or Shaya calling a random regular season game. I actually enjoy listening to Mike call a game. But as we hopefully hit these next few years of a golden age, or at least bronze age, of contending for the playoffs every year, why would TD not want pay for our excellent play-by-play man to call our playoff run? 

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I was thinking about why John is different from say the assistant to the vice president for scouting or just about any other position that's not "on the ice". The reason is that TD is taking John directly away from the fans. He is diluting the fan experience, which he claimed to want to enhance. So, what if TD sold the huge beautiful jumbotron and put a tiny, ancient old one up instead to save money? What if he made all the seats plastic and even smaller? What if he got rid of the wi-fi in the building to save money? What if he got rid of the DJ...OK bad example, go ahead and get rid of the DJ. What if he got rid of tailgating or forced everyone to pay a $300 tailgate fee? None of those (nor many other things that could be done to save money directly) affect the "on ice" product. But they directly affect the experience. 

 

But Forslund DOES affect the product. And in a way he does affect the "on ice" product, as he projects and translates that product to the paying public. And trying to portray TD as a spinster shop owner who has to watch every cent to make a profit is misleading. The man is a billionaire and his franchise will be worth hundreds of millions more than he paid for it in just a few years. He has chosen to take that approach to just about everything, but he doesn't have to, and surely doesn't do it with everything, as his willingness to spend on players has shown. Since Forslund translates the players and on ice product directly, surely he could be at least a partial exception.

 

BTW I fully endorse TD's right to do it. But I don't have to be happy about it or even think it's right.

 

TD is not just taking Forslund away from his internal organization, he is taking Forslund away from the fans. He is taking Forslund directly away from me. And yes, it is my opinion that he is doing it because he is forcing a dramatically reduced salary on him. That is the act of aggression. John will land on his feet. That kind of talent will have other options at what will prove to be the market rate. And we fans will have to move on. But it's not what we were told would happen to our hockey experience. John has been a big part of that.

 

Will I keep watching? Of course I will. But there is a good chance it will decrease the enjoyment, possibly by a lot. 

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Rem, you kind of summed up my feelings about this. First of all, the title of the thread is a little misleading, because Forslund is owed nothing. He’s been paid for his work. But he has been an articulate and visible advocate for a nearly invisible franchise for 29 years. If John is asking for a raise in troubled times then I think the narrative is different. But 100% of the media reports indicate he was offered a deal on a per diem basis, with compensation based on revenue. In this environment, a sure significant salary cut. And he earned this by .... being the best in the business. I really believe casual hockey fans, and 20 years ago that was me, tuned into broadcasts and the quality of the Canes’ broadcasts is part of what kept them coming back. I had Center Ice for a few years, and you really appreciate John after hearing play by play from other markets. So, TD, you may save a few dollars on your broadcast expense, but the team’s fans will pay the price for it. I would bet that 80-90% of Canes fans who don’t read message boards and don’t closely follow hockey when its not being played will be shocked when they tune in August 1st and hear Mike Maniscalco. Probably will assume at first John is doing NBC games, but they’ll figure it out. Wonder how many offers John’s agent has in hand for next season? I wouldn’t be surprised if he signs with another team during the playoffs. 
 

So in 2 years, TD has shown no loyalty to Chuck, John, front office guys, scouts, his AHL affiliate, and I’m sure I’ve missed someone. In 5 years, when his contractual obligation to Raleigh expires, why on earth would anyone expect him to show loyalty to this market? 

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48 minutes ago, bluedevilcane said:

Rem, you kind of summed up my feelings about this. First of all, the title of the thread is a little misleading, because Forslund is owed nothing. He’s been paid for his work. But he has been an articulate and visible advocate for a nearly invisible franchise for 29 years. If John is asking for a raise in troubled times then I think the narrative is different. But 100% of the media reports indicate he was offered a deal on a per diem basis, with compensation based on revenue. In this environment, a sure significant salary cut. And he earned this by .... being the best in the business. I really believe casual hockey fans, and 20 years ago that was me, tuned into broadcasts and the quality of the Canes’ broadcasts is part of what kept them coming back. I had Center Ice for a few years, and you really appreciate John after hearing play by play from other markets. So, TD, you may save a few dollars on your broadcast expense, but the team’s fans will pay the price for it. I would bet that 80-90% of Canes fans who don’t read message boards and don’t closely follow hockey when its not being played will be shocked when they tune in August 1st and hear Mike Maniscalco. Probably will assume at first John is doing NBC games, but they’ll figure it out. Wonder how many offers John’s agent has in hand for next season? I wouldn’t be surprised if he signs with another team during the playoffs. 
 

So in 2 years, TD has shown no loyalty to Chuck, John, front office guys, scouts, his AHL affiliate, and I’m sure I’ve missed someone. In 5 years, when his contractual obligation to Raleigh expires, why on earth would anyone expect him to show loyalty to this market? 

 

Looking at our roster, in 5 years I expect the Canes will be a perennial contender and the Carolina market will be booming. It's shown that it will support a winner in the past and the area has grown considerably in the meantime. I don't know about loyalty, but in addition to the risk of moving a successful franchise, I'm pretty sure the NHL owners have to approve any moves. I can't see them approving a move out of a successful southern market, and I'd be surprised if they were prone to do Dundon any favors, probably quite the opposite given how he's shaking up the Old Boys network.  

Edited by LakeLivin
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Sunshine, lollipops, rainbows, and John Forslund getting whatever he wants during a global pandemic.

 

One of these things is not like the others. Can you tell which one?

 

 

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