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Should the Canes Pay John What he is owed ?

Should the Canes pay the man ?  

34 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the Canes pay John Forslund what he Deserves ?



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4 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

Two camps, mostly repeating their respective argument. Just curious: does either side think that they'll actually convince the other side to change their opinion? 

Truer words were never spoken. I’m not changing mine. And I’ll try to keep it to myself from now on. I already said I would once and had a relapse. Maybe I can do better.

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4 hours ago, wxray1 said:

 

Mike needs to find a catch phrase or two.  People seem to miss John's.  Mike will find them.  Just please, don't do the Mishkin scream or the Penguins Langeisms.

 

And I wouldn't mind if he showed a little more excitement when the Canes score. Don't get me wrong, I think the Rig has done a very nice job so far. But Forslund seems to infuse his Canes goal calls with more enthusiasm, even when he doesn't use one of his catchphrases (which I think he parcels out nicely; if he used them too much they'd lose some impact).

Edited by LakeLivin

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4 hours ago, wxray1 said:

 

Mike needs to find a catch phrase or two.  People seem to miss John's.  Mike will find them.  Just please, don't do the Mishkin scream or the Penguins Langeisms.

 

8 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

 

And I wouldn't mind if he showed a little more excitement when the Canes score. Don't get me wrong, I think the Rig has done a very nice job so far. But Forslund seems to infuse his Canes goal calls with more enthusiasm, even when he doesn't use one of his catchphrases (which I think he parcels out nicely; if he used them too much they'd lose some impact).

 

I just hope Big Rig isn't reading this and conflating the two and yells something like this for the next goal-- "WELL YOU CAN SHAVE MY BACK WITH A RUSTY RAZOR, JACOB SLAAAAVIN WITH THE GOOOOOOAL!" 😲😂

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Here's the only thing that mattered to me on Saturday: The Canes won. And that's always been the case, no matter who's calling it.

 

Lake's point is taken: Nobody's going to change anybody's opinion on this. That being said, nobody's hired JF yet. But this is our culture: immediate gratification, you must do x, y or z now, right freakin' now, or all is lost.

 

Except... it's not.

 

If John is being honest, and I have no reason to think otherwise, he wants to work here. If TC/DW are, and again, no reason to think otherwise, they are leaving the door open for that. When there's a vaccine and an NHL regular season, those two facts might well combine in a mended fence and a deal.

 

JF did himself no favors by spending the last year chiding TD about the scoreboard. That was probably fueled by what he deemed TD's unfair treatment of Kaiton and his unwillingness to commit to JF for more than a year. But whatever motivated it, it was unprofessional. He bit the hand that fed him, and that always carries a price--and it's apparently a price JF, come renewal time, was unwilling to pay.

 

To those complaining that TD is being cheap, let me ask: If something completely beyond anyone's control made all TV service impossible, but your cable company came to you and asked you to continue paying anyway... would you? "It's only $100 a month. A drop in the bucket! No? But you can afford it! What are you... cheap??"

 

When things return to normal, do you give them your business again? They insulted you for making a budget-conscious decision. That's what JF did... all year. I think it's pretty incredible that TD made him an offer at all.

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3 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Here's the only thing that mattered to me on Saturday: The Canes won. And that's always been the case, no matter who's calling it.

 

Lake's point is taken: Nobody's going to change anybody's opinion on this. That being said, nobody's hired JF yet. But this is our culture: immediate gratification, you must do x, y or z now, right freakin' now, or all is lost.

 

Except... it's not.

 

If John is being honest, and I have no reason to think otherwise, he wants to work here. If TC/DW are, and again, no reason to think otherwise, they are leaving the door open for that. When there's a vaccine and an NHL regular season, those two facts might well combine in a mended fence and a deal.

 

JF did himself no favors by spending the last year chiding TD about the scoreboard. That was probably fueled by what he deemed TD's unfair treatment of Kaiton and his unwillingness to commit to JF for more than a year. But whatever motivated it, it was unprofessional. He bit the hand that fed him, and that always carries a price--and it's apparently a price JF, come renewal time, was unwilling to pay.

 

To those complaining that TD is being cheap, let me ask: If something completely beyond anyone's control made all TV service impossible, but your cable company came to you and asked you to continue paying anyway... would you? "It's only $100 a month. A drop in the bucket! No? But you can afford it! What are you... cheap??"

 

When things return to normal, do you give them your business again? They insulted you for making a budget-conscious decision. That's what JF did... all year. I think it's pretty incredible that TD made him an offer at all.

I like your reasonings here top, all of them. A few comments, I never paid attention to the chiding about the scoreboard, just did as you state in your 1st paragraph, paid attention to the games, and ignored the other.

 

2nd, as a matter of course, referring to your 5th paragraph, I get Direct TV, and have subscribed to the NHL package for years. Thus, that has been what they have done, The package is paid in 4 installments I believe, thus it was completely paid for thru the end of the season when COVID hit. Now they didn't ask me "to continue to pay $100 month", they've just not returned the money? Does that make me stupid or cheap for wanting it back, just saying?

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I would rather have John but can live with Mike. He did a real good job under a lot pressure calling the Canes Rangers game. And he’ll improve. Let him get a full season under his belt and he’ll be just fine. An aside challenge is for him and Tripp to mesh. I thinks that’s been awkward to this point. Listening to Johnny call the Bruins Philly game was silky smooth though ...

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Just a small thing on Mike. I like Mike. But there is a very high bar with the play by play guy in terms of long term. Some people have suggested a bit of tiring of aspect of John's calls and talking about the scoreboard and running jokes getting stale, which is fair. But we will not know how we like Mike over time until time has passed. For me, while he was better on the aftermath than most, there are aspects of his style that got really old for me on that show. Some styles are better in small doses, and for me that is not the case with John. Hopefully that won't happen with his play by play style, I guess time will tell. Or even better, maybe John and TD work it out. I will say this. If John and TD do work it out, Mike should be the fill in guy instead of Shaya.

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56 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

I like your reasonings here top, all of them. A few comments, I never paid attention to the chiding about the scoreboard, just did as you state in your 1st paragraph, paid attention to the games, and ignored the other.

 

2nd, as a matter of course, referring to your 5th paragraph, I get Direct TV, and have subscribed to the NHL package for years. Thus, that has been what they have done, The package is paid in 4 installments I believe, thus it was completely paid for thru the end of the season when COVID hit. Now they didn't ask me "to continue to pay $100 month", they've just not returned the money? Does that make me stupid or cheap for wanting it back, just saying?

There's fine print in your contract covering that, I'm sure (and written to cost you, not them :) ). I'm guessing John got paid thru June even though he wasn't working, and TD didn't request a refund.

 

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I must admit that the Big Rig is doing a pretty good job. There seems to be good chemistry with Tripp. I was all in for paying John, but I'm not too sure anymore. I think that if John really wanted to stay, he made a big mistake.

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What's funny is I've watched this game so long I could tell by the sounds of the ice, players and refs that Mike was trailing the play quite a bit on the radio. His commentary just doesn't line up with the background sounds at all, so it was not surprising to confirm that on the TV today. 

 

As a radio listener for Sunday's game he rarely says the time remaining, fixable but annonying in 3-2 game with lots of faceoffs with less then five to go. 

 

Also frustrating is when he reverts back to doing color commentating. His fun player facts are long and as a radio listener very annonying.

 

All fixable, he's got a high ceiling. But it's the NHL it's really not supposed to be the place you intern for a job at and we deal with the growing pains.

 

 

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The combination of Abby Labar with Shane Willis seems to work very well in the pregame, intermission and postgame slots. Perhaps their time on screen could be increased. I did not miss John as much as I thought I would. Mike may be a little behind the game but so am I. Tripp can fill in with detailed analysis. When he does it all seems to come together.

 

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27 minutes ago, sundance-ch1 said:

The combination of Abby Labar with Shane Willis seems to work very well in the pregame, intermission and postgame slots. Perhaps their time on screen could be increased. I did not miss John as much as I thought I would. Mike may be a little behind the game but so am I. Tripp can fill in with detailed analysis. When he does it all seems to come together.

 

I think the writing on the wall started when Abby filled in for Big Rig.  That set in motion a possible series of dominoes.

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18 hours ago, legend-1 said:

What's funny is I've watched this game so long I could tell by the sounds of the ice, players and refs that Mike was trailing the play quite a bit on the radio. His commentary just doesn't line up with the background sounds at all, so it was not surprising to confirm that on the TV today. 

 

As a radio listener for Sunday's game he rarely says the time remaining, fixable but annonying in 3-2 game with lots of faceoffs with less then five to go. 

 

Also frustrating is when he reverts back to doing color commentating. His fun player facts are long and as a radio listener very annonying.

 

All fixable, he's got a high ceiling. But it's the NHL it's really not supposed to be the place you intern for a job at and we deal with the growing pains.

 

 

legend, while I agree with the point you've made in your 1st sentence, not sure but perhaps if you've only caught the games so far on radio, but possible you and others are unaware that Tripp and mike are broadcasting from a studio well away it seems from ringside? That obviously slows down their response.

 

As to the comment you made sundance, I have to agree, but to each his own. I miss as much the nuanced mannerisms of JF as anything, having started with and nurtured by them as I grew to love the sport, thus it's hard to let go. Therefore, IMHO the long debate over this standoff between JF and TD that we've engaged in as a byproduct of boredom during COVID shutdown days, is rooted in where John Forslund came into a fan's introduction to hockey. Thus if one, and there are many here, started participating/watching hockey BJF (that is Before John Forslund, if you will), than it's much more natural to not be attached to him? In my particular case, it's harder to let go, as I cut my teeth with him so to speak? Saying all that, I caught part of the Chicago broadcast last night and I think that's the one he was broadcasting on (may have been another though as I'm not sure). At any rate, whichever game he was broadcasting, the tip of my hat goes to top on this, as I was not so impressed. I will say though, that to me, John's most impressive attribute is the way he seems to know EVERY player when he broadcasts a game. I personally have a hard time keeping up with our own players, particularly if I can't see numbers. How does John do this? 

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3 hours ago, sundance-ch1 said:

The combination of Abby Labar with Shane Willis seems to work very well in the pregame, intermission and postgame slots. Perhaps their time on screen could be increased. I did not miss John as much as I thought I would. Mike may be a little behind the game but so am I. Tripp can fill in with detailed analysis. When he does it all seems to come together.

 

 

 

I agree Mike seems a half-step behind, but i still expect that has a lot to do with the fact he's calling the game from monitors 750 miles away from where the game's being played.  I'll hold judgement on that until i hear him call a game in person.

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All things considered I'm pleased with how Maniscalco is doing so far. But one thing that I'll miss if we do end up losing Forslund is his insight into the game and the team. Not as much during his call, as he doesn't have time to go into much depth during the game, but on the post game show. I think that will be very hard to replace. 

Edited by LakeLivin
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On 8/3/2020 at 11:57 AM, remkin said:

Just a small thing on Mike. I like Mike. But there is a very high bar with the play by play guy in terms of long term. Some people have suggested a bit of tiring of aspect of John's calls and talking about the scoreboard and running jokes getting stale, which is fair. But we will not know how we like Mike over time until time has passed. For me, while he was better on the aftermath than most, there are aspects of his style that got really old for me on that show. Some styles are better in small doses, and for me that is not the case with John. Hopefully that won't happen with his play by play style, I guess time will tell. Or even better, maybe John and TD work it out. I will say this. If John and TD do work it out, Mike should be the fill in guy instead of Shaya.

Whole Heartily Agree  ! 

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3 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

 I will say though, that to me, John's most impressive attribute is the way he seems to know EVERY player when he broadcasts a game. I personally have a hard time keeping up with our own players, particularly if I can't see numbers. How does John do this? 

 

Absolutely!  And when John was on the "B" team for NBC, they always threw him in the West games.  Didn't matter.  He knew the players.  The man studies and prepares hard.  This has to have rubbed off on the guys like MM around him, I'm sure.  MM would be wise to follow that lead.

 

 

41 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

All things considered I'm pleased with how Maniscalco is doing so far. But one thing that I'll miss if we do end up losing Forslund is his insight into the game and the team. Not as much during his call, as he doesn't have time to go into much depth during the game, but on the post game show. I think that will be very hard to replace. 

 

And that comes with nearly 30 years of broadcasting games.   (More, if you include the ones he did in his basement as a kid -- not joking.)

 

That's impossible to replace and one reason he'll be an asset on a national broadcast.

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8 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

legend, while I agree with the point you've made in your 1st sentence, not sure but perhaps if you've only caught the games so far on radio, but possible you and others are unaware that Tripp and mike are broadcasting from a studio well away it seems from ringside? That obviously slows down their response.

 

As to the comment you made sundance, I have to agree, but to each his own. I miss as much the nuanced mannerisms of JF as anything, having started with and nurtured by them as I grew to love the sport, thus it's hard to let go. Therefore, IMHO the long debate over this standoff between JF and TD that we've engaged in as a byproduct of boredom during COVID shutdown days, is rooted in where John Forslund came into a fan's introduction to hockey. Thus if one, and there are many here, started participating/watching hockey BJF (that is Before John Forslund, if you will), than it's much more natural to not be attached to him? In my particular case, it's harder to let go, as I cut my teeth with him so to speak? Saying all that, I caught part of the Chicago broadcast last night and I think that's the one he was broadcasting on (may have been another though as I'm not sure). At any rate, whichever game he was broadcasting, the tip of my hat goes to top on this, as I was not so impressed. I will say though, that to me, John's most impressive attribute is the way he seems to know EVERY player when he broadcasts a game. I personally have a hard time keeping up with our own players, particularly if I can't see numbers. How does John do this? 

I don’t think Forslund called the Chicago game as they are in Edmonton. John is the only play by play announcer inside either “bubble” and he is in Toronto. Pierre McGuire is the only NBC announcer in Edmonton. All the play by play in the West is being done from monitors remotely in the same way Mike is calling the Hurricane games.

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Mike was so far behind the call last night, I wondered if everything is not matched up well. He doesn't seems like he has any problem describing the action, but it just seems like there is some kind of delay between the audio and picture. The real test of his ability will be when he is in the same arena as the game.

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42 minutes ago, caniac6 said:

Mike was so far behind the call last night, I wondered if everything is not matched up well. He doesn't seems like he has any problem describing the action, but it just seems like there is some kind of delay between the audio and picture. The real test of his ability will be when he is in the same arena as the game.

Not being there makes the delay. The announcers cant see the pass recipient until the camera moves. At a live game he can see it before we TV viewers do.  

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3 hours ago, caniac6 said:

Mike was so far behind the call last night, I wondered if everything is not matched up well. He doesn't seems like he has any problem describing the action, but it just seems like there is some kind of delay between the audio and picture. The real test of his ability will be when he is in the same arena as the game.

 

2 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

Not being there makes the delay. The announcers cant see the pass recipient until the camera moves. At a live game he can see it before we TV viewers do

Don't forget that a normal broadcast has the announcer watching live while the video is slightly delayed. I always enjoyed sitting below the press box before the new scoreboard as I could see the broadcast monitors that are projected for my own instant replay when I couldn't make out the detail from the 3rd deck.

I worked on baseball and volleyball broadcasts during college running cameras, the switchboard, and even producing a couple games, so I can promise you that split second is worth its weight in gold. Watching JF during games, you can see he focuses on the live game as he calls and only relies on the broadcast images for detail. Currently Mike, and the entire Canes broadcast team, has to rely on the feed with no control over what cameras are focusing on.

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3 hours ago, DevildogKodi said:

 

 Currently Mike, and the entire Canes broadcast team, has to rely on the feed with no control over what cameras are focusing on.

While Forslund is one of only a handful in the bubble.  Big advantage for him.  I think he got this honor because he is "teamless".

Edited by wxray1

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16 minutes ago, wxray1 said:

While Forslund is one of only a handful in the bubble.  Big advantage for him.  I think he got this honor because he is "teamless".

Doc and Kenny Albert aren’t in the bubble. I think it was their choice. Doc is up there age wise, in the danger zone. Pierre McGuire is the only NBC announcer inside in Edmonton. Surely they could have put in one full team if the broadcasters wanted to be there. I think Doc only calls national games now. Pretty sure John is in because he was willing to be away from his family for 8 weeks. Maybe he’ll run into Waddell while he’s there and work something out.

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TD dropping Kaiton and the separate radio broadcast kind of said it all to me. It is a new era, and TD is more concerned about the in-arena product (ie increasing ticket sales) than the local TV/radio product. I hate to see Forslund and Kaiton go as someone who grew up with them (honestly makes my eyes well up when I hear their old playoff calls). If we lose Forslund, all the more reason to become a perennial playoff team so that he'll call our games in the Cup final in a few years. 

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