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LakeLivin

Offseason Talk 2020

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6 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

Gotta think the Covid Playoffs cost Dundon several million with respect to Haydn Fleury's next contract.

He’ll make up for it by dumping some pending UFA’s soon.

 

And then he has to pay Svech soon 

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1 hour ago, AWACSooner said:

He’ll make up for it by dumping some pending UFA’s soon.

 

And then he has to pay Svech soon 

 

Hamilton comes due the same time as Svech.  But at least we'll finally be out from under the $2.33m/per Semin buyout. Yeah I said his name; this team ain't afraid of no ghosts! 

Edited by LakeLivin

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My preference of what should be done:

 

erase 90% of the 2019 offseason and try again. It was a golden opportunity to really push us forward and we went value instead of quality.

Dzingel gone.

Gardiner, gone

One of the goalies gone.

nino. Gone. 
 

the team has to decide what it wants to be. We dropped more than 600 hits from the 18-19 to 19-20 team when games were evened up. Losing CdH and Faulk while adding Edmundson lost about 200 but the others came from the same guys on the ice not hitting. So, if we are going for skill and scoring then we need to add scorers. We have 7 defensive forwards in the team: McGinn, Nino, Foegele, Marty, Staal, Geekie, and Trocheck (he isn’t scoring).  Why is half the roster defensive guys if we are trying to skate and get up the ice to score?  Staal is staying, Foegele is staying, Tro and Geekie are staying.  Nino has to go and we need to make a decision on McGinn versus Marty.

 

What does that mean?

 

we need: 1 power forward to play with the Finns or one scorer to play with Tro-Necas.

Two top 9 guys that can be counted on to score to play with Foegele.

1 actual starting goalie

 

My power forward with the Finns is Palmeiri. Trade them Skjei. Low key move to play 2LW: get Johnsson from Toronto as they will sell off their depth guys for cheap. I don’t think we have a prospect that will fit here

 

3rd line guys: evaluate Cotton to see if he is ready. If not trade for a scoring center. Kerfoot from Toronto is a good option. Other guy: Bokk?  Johnsson?

 

4th line is set: McGinn/Marty-Staal-Geekie

 

Goalie: sign Lehner or trade for Raanta.

 

Defense: i sign Fleury to a Pesce like deal and hand him the keys to 2LHD. Tbh, I play Pesce and Fluery together but on their off sides.

 

Bring Bean up and get a RHD to play with him. If Skjei for Palmeiri doesn’t work out, Skjei-Pesce Bean-Fleury (on a cheaper bridge deal) would be pretty good.

 

Edited by gocanes0506

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The guys I would like the canes to keep are on this list 

 

Aho , Turbo , Svechnikov , Necas , Hamilton , Slavin ,  Fleury  , Bean ,  Pesce , Martinook .  Vatanen  , Geekie , Foegle . Skjei  

 

The  guys I  would like the canes to get rid of  are everyone  not included on the keep list . 

 

Would their be any buyers for  Gardiner and Staal ? 

 

Also  Trocheck did not impress me  and i feel like  losing wallmark hurt the canes more in the process  . 

 

Edmundson  is a rental  so he is gone ,  but   Is it possible to  try and sign  Vatanen in the offseason ? 

 

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Canesfanforever said:

The guys I would like the canes to keep are on this list 

 

Aho , Turbo , Svechnikov , Necas , Hamilton , Slavin ,  Fleury  , Bean ,  Pesce , Martinook .  Vatanen  , Geekie , Foegle . Skjei  

 

The  guys I  would like the canes to get rid of  are everyone  not included on the keep list . 

 

Would their be any buyers for  Gardiner and Staal ? 

 

Also  Trocheck did not impress me  and i feel like  losing wallmark hurt the canes more in the process  . 

 

Edmundson  is a rental  so he is gone ,  but   Is it possible to  try and sign  Vatanen in the offseason ? 

 

 

 

 

 

I don’t see how losing Wallmark hurt? He is a 4th C. While Trocheck didn’t work out so far, if we can get him to above 40 points next season his trade value will quite a bit more than the 3, 4Cs, Priskie, and a 5th round pick it took to get him.

 

I was buliish on Vatanen after the first two games of the Rangers series but, the Boston series and game 3 of the Rangers series tells me we okay without him.  
 

I don’t see Staal going anywhere. He has a NMC and he is Rod’s center.

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Hurricanes have been hurt by awful drafts by previous GM's.  

 

In 2020, there should have been a number of outstanding players in their prime competing this year.

 

Outside of the top line and their Defense, the rest of the squad is very mediocre and not setup to win playoff hockey.  The Canes needed a new owner to reinvigorate the franchise but I'm not sure the current owner is the right person to deliver/has the necessary deep pockets to make us a top squad/Cup Champion.

 

Staal at 32 is past his sale date too......

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46 minutes ago, Hockey Maven said:

Hurricanes have been hurt by awful drafts by previous GM's.  

 

In 2020, there should have been a number of outstanding players in their prime competing this year.

 

Outside of the top line and their Defense, the rest of the squad is very mediocre and not setup to win playoff hockey.  The Canes needed a new owner to reinvigorate the franchise but I'm not sure the current owner is the right person to deliver/has the necessary deep pockets to make us a top squad/Cup Champion.

 

Staal at 32 is past his sale date too......

 

I'm curious as to what gives you that impression given that Dundon just spent really close to the cap and paid $3.8m for Toronto's first round draft pick?

Edited by LakeLivin
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12 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

 

I'm curious as to what gives you that impression given that Dundon just spent really close to the cap and paid $3.8m for Toronto's first round draft pick?

yea he only put up close 90 million for the team this year.  Really small deep pockets /s

Edited by gocanes0506

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13 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

Gotta think the Covid Playoffs cost Dundon several million with respect to Haydn Fleury's next contract.

Probably, but I'm still thinking he can be had on a reasonable deal, if he'll take term. The place where Covid is more likely to kill this, is that many players don't want a lot of term so they can wait this out and get paid later. I see these playoffs as the validation that we can try to sign Fleury to as long of a deal as we can. No NTC. And that in time he can still be a great value. Offer him a nice deal over at least 5 years, if not more. I've been sitting on this as the master plan for years now. Getter done!

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5 hours ago, Canesfanforever said:

How much are we looking at to make a trade for Kevin Fiala ?

Bill Guerin will be run out of St Paul if he trades Fiala...keep dreaming

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I don’t know where I can find if a player hits all of their performance bonuses. Williams got 500k. We have 944k in space. Im assuming Svech hit the majority if his 2 plus million. We’ll have bonus carryover.

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IMO there is still worse options than Spezza ufa, or a trade for Kassian on RW. I would guess the oilers would look at a D-man trade. Even Jordan Greenway from the wild if they would trade with us after the Rask deal

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RW options (in preference order):

Palmieri

Kapanen (non pesce deal)

Anderson

Virtanen

A. Nylander

Buchnevich (would be higher but will be expensive)

Smith

Fast

Pitlick

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1 hour ago, gocanes0506 said:

RW options (in preference order):

Palmieri

Kapanen (non pesce deal)

Anderson

Virtanen

A. Nylander

Buchnevich (would be higher but will be expensive)

Smith

Fast

Pitlick

   I dont disagree with most of the players named, just think a Kassian or Greenway adds a much needed size/physical presence. 

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4 hours ago, AWACSooner said:

Bill Guerin will be run out of St Paul if he trades Fiala...keep dreaming

LMAO   i know right ?   God   I just love  that player and if he were to play for the Canes  Brind'amour    would only need to point to Fiala  and be like ,  Do what he does ! lol 

Edited by Canesfanforever

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6 hours ago, AmxCanes said:

   I dont disagree with most of the players named, just think a Kassian or Greenway adds a much needed size/physical presence. 

We have physical players just choose not to use them that way.  Martinook had 199 hits in 18-19 but only 70+ this season. McGinn and Foegele had half his total of last season.

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On 8/19/2020 at 11:24 PM, gocanes0506 said:

My preference of what should be done:

 

erase 90% of the 2019 offseason and try again. It was a golden opportunity to really push us forward and we went value instead of quality.

Dzingel gone.

Gardiner, gone

One of the goalies gone.

nino. Gone. 
 

the team has to decide what it wants to be. We dropped more than 600 hits from the 18-19 to 19-20 team when games were evened up. Losing CdH and Faulk while adding Edmundson lost about 200 but the others came from the same guys on the ice not hitting. So, if we are going for skill and scoring then we need to add scorers. We have 7 defensive forwards in the team: McGinn, Nino, Foegele, Marty, Staal, Geekie, and Trocheck (he isn’t scoring).  Why is half the roster defensive guys if we are trying to skate and get up the ice to score?  Staal is staying, Foegele is staying, Tro and Geekie are staying.  Nino has to go and we need to make a decision on McGinn versus Marty.

 

What does that mean?

 

we need: 1 power forward to play with the Finns or one scorer to play with Tro-Necas.

Two top 9 guys that can be counted on to score to play with Foegele.

1 actual starting goalie

 

My power forward with the Finns is Palmeiri. Trade them Skjei. Low key move to play 2LW: get Johnsson from Toronto as they will sell off their depth guys for cheap. I don’t think we have a prospect that will fit here

 

3rd line guys: evaluate Cotton to see if he is ready. If not trade for a scoring center. Kerfoot from Toronto is a good option. Other guy: Bokk?  Johnsson?

 

4th line is set: McGinn/Marty-Staal-Geekie

 

Goalie: sign Lehner or trade for Raanta.

 

Defense: i sign Fleury to a Pesce like deal and hand him the keys to 2LHD. Tbh, I play Pesce and Fluery together but on their off sides.

 

Bring Bean up and get a RHD to play with him. If Skjei for Palmeiri doesn’t work out, Skjei-Pesce Bean-Fleury (on a cheaper bridge deal) would be pretty good.

 

The skill and scoring teams all flamed out in the qualifiers or the first round except for Tampa Bay.  Build the team with a defense-first philosophy.

Let the pending UFA's go and add a guy like Justin Braun as a RH 3rd-pairing guy with Fleury.  Get a real #1 goaltender.  Add some grit to the

bottom six forwards.  And, because some teams are up against the cap, maybe this is the year to offer sheet a Sergachev or a Cirelli.

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8 minutes ago, MidnightAngel said:

The skill and scoring teams all flamed out in the qualifiers or the first round except for Tampa Bay.  Build the team with a defense-first philosophy.

Let the pending UFA's go and add a guy like Justin Braun as a RH 3rd-pairing guy with Fleury.  Get a real #1 goaltender.  Add some grit to the

bottom six forwards.  And, because some teams are up against the cap, maybe this is the year to offer sheet a Sergachev or a Cirelli.

Im not disagreeing with you point.  As I mentioned just one post up, we have the grit but aren’t using it.

 

Hits: 2018-2019 Martinook 199, CdH 187, Ferland 182, Dougie 160, Faulk 156, McGinn 137, Foegele 126, Svech 123, Staal 122, etc
2019-2020 Staal: 149, Edmundson 118, Svech 116, McGinn 80, Martinook 72, Necas 65, Foegele 63 (Necas as our 6th highest hitter is ridiculous).

big dip from Martinook, McGinn, Foegele, and Hamilton.  I don’t think its a lack of grit its a change in playing philosophy.

 

that is my point about the team has to decide its identity. If we are going with skating and skill, we need 3 scoring lines and scour pad line.  Why do we have half a roster of scour pad dudes then?  Doesn’t make a ton of sense. It looks worse when your 2nd line stops scoring.
 

if we are going to be a rough team then have your physical dudes hit people.  If we are going with passing, skating, and scoring we need a couple less physical guys and more scorers. 

Edited by gocanes0506

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I'm not ready to deep dive yet, but I do think we will need to make adjustments at forward. 

 

The D will change because we have too many, and because the committee so far has been messing with the D every offseason. 

 

Up front, IMO needs at least one substantial move. We tried to add skill and improve the PP. But the guys we added for the most part, have not panned out. Dzingel has upside but Brind'Amour has had him on the 4th line and riding the pine a lot. Nino of course blazed on the scene, but has now had a pretty long run of not producing much if any offense. Trocheck has not put numbers up yet, but to my eye has been close. Also Trocheck, even in his non 70 point state, has been reliably 50 points year after year, and that is good for a 2C. The elephant in the room is J Staal. Has age just caught him? He seems slow. He's always been stone handed and a bit of a chest logo sniper on his shot, but he's at least managed to scrape some offensive in years past, and even had some runs where he was driving offense. None now. He's the heart and soul reportedly and he's solid on D. But his is lumbering and ineffective in the O zone. 

 

I like the idea of a dynamic winger to trade out Dzingel and Nino at least. 

 

On D we have way too many bodies if we count the UFA's especially. It's hard to see signing any of the UFA's. Vatanen was pretty good, he stepped in for Hamilton vs. NYR, but like so many others, not as much vs Boston. I like him more than I expected, and he is a RHD, but what's the cost? 

 

IMO Fleury, after years of intermittent NHL ice, has nailed his spot down. As I've been droning on for years, remember, he is not at his prime yet. He will still get better with more NHL ice time. That playoff run will help a lot. 

 

It's unlikely that we trade Skjei given what we gave up to get him. Also, he has a big contract and might limit return. 

 

Gardiner. The old Faulk argument of return rears it's head. Not thinking Gardiner brings much back. Maybe use him to move up in the draft? Meh, that never happens. I'd move on from him, if only for cap reasons. He did get better as the year went on. He'd be blocking Bean coming in full time, but it's far more conservative to bring Bean in part time in year one.

 

So, Hamilton, Slavin, Pesce, Fleury, Skjei is written in stone. Technically, we could use a RHD, but Vatanen or TVR seem unlikely and are UFA's. This may sound nuts, but if he would sign a team friendly, short term deal with no NTC, I could see Edmundson back with Bean on a rotation. He provides some tough that many think we need, and while he's slow as a mule going uphill with a load, he's proficient and experienced. Or they could just stick with Gardiner and rotate Bean in. That would be the standard thing to do. 

 

I've been a major proponent of upgrading goal. I'm still down with it, but I do feel better about our tandem than I did earlier. It would have to be a clear upgrade. I still like Lehner, but not sure what it would take. Long term this is IMO an issue, but going next year with this same tandem is not the end of the world.

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4 minutes ago, remkin said:

IMO Fleury, after years of intermittent NHL ice, has nailed his spot down.

 

and you said this without telling me I told you so 😁. After a few years of casting doubt upon Fluery I will be the first to admit you were right about him and I was wrong. He has found his game and I applaud that.

On the wider issue of can you have two much D. I think we do for reasons you outlined. I would like to see Edmundson back. Not sure how he would fit but I like his steady play and toughness.

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