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1 hour ago, snuffy72 said:

Staal says frankly his final years in Carolina weren’t very good because the team was bad. Said going to Minnesota made him better because the team was better. Says he hopes they find success earlier than later in Buffalo.

— Joe Yerdon (@JoeYerdon) September 18, 2020
If this is a true statement it really pi%$#s me off.  This is exactly why he should have never been the Captain.   It was his team to help make better.         I'm not sure how Eric made so much money in Carolina and then has the audacity to bad mouth his former team thus his teammates.     Wow what a classless ego.  I actually met him a couple of times and been to his hometown of Thunder Bay Ontario.  I am so puzzled because he seemed like a nice guy. 

In fairness snuffy, after Cole was traded and we didn’t keep the other good wingers, we did have a sucky roster. Skinner wasn’t going to play with Staal.  Eventually carrying the team got to him and his 8 million looked like an albatross.  
 

It did bother me that his effort level wasn’t of an 8 million dollar player.

Edited by gocanes0506

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7 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

In fairness snuffy, after Cole was traded and we didn’t keep the other good wingers, we did have a sucky roster. Skinner wasn’t going to play with Staal.  Eventually carrying the team got to him and his 8 million looked like an albatross.  
 

It did bother me that his effort level wasn’t of an 8 million dollar player.

Is Skinner going to play with him now?  LOL!

 

I agree with snuffy that a "C" needs to show leadership a different way, despite the issues of a crappy team or crappy linemate.   It is telling that this dirty laundry is popping out now.  One can imagine some of the smelly laundry was cluttering the room back then.   We suspected it at the time, and some small rumors even came out.  I guess this is just confirmation... which, BTW, he still should have kept to himself.  Not so much for us, but for the Sabres and their fan base.  Just not a good look going into a team with those kind of statements.

 

BTW: since Yerdon is The Athletic writer for the Sabres beat, I'm going to assume this is a true quote.  He isn't a SGOTI.

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20 minutes ago, wxray1 said:

Is Skinner going to play with him now?  LOL!

 

I agree with snuffy that a "C" needs to show leadership a different way, despite the issues of a crappy team or crappy linemate.   It is telling that this dirty laundry is popping out now.  One can imagine some of the smelly laundry was cluttering the room back then.   We suspected it at the time, and some small rumors even came out.  I guess this is just confirmation... which, BTW, he still should have kept to himself.  Not so much for us, but for the Sabres and their fan base.  Just not a good look going into a team with those kind of statements.

 

BTW: since Yerdon is The Athletic writer for the Sabres beat, I'm going to assume this is a true quote.  He isn't a SGOTI.

He may to start but when that line is -20 in 2 months, if they make it that long, they will be seperated.

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After being knocked down, I can still see lazy Staal down on one knee behind the goal line while the play was going the other way.

 

It's you team to make better you idiot, not the other way around.

 

That quote pisses me off as well.

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By the time E Staal left the Canes he had made $72 big ones. His brother, assuming he’s here till the end of his contract will have made $60 big ones. A $132 million. Those two must sit in bf Thunder Bay Ontario in the summer (where the only thing to come out of there is hookers or hockey players) laughing their a$$’$ off clinking their Molson’s with a “Here’$ to Raleigh” 

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4 hours ago, gocanes0506 said:

He may to start but when that line is -20 in 2 months, if they make it that long, they will be seperated.

Eric Staal couldn't keep up with Jeff Skinner five years ago. He sure won't be doing it now.

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Staal basically admitted what I and many others could see was true the whole time he was here: He's a freakin' blame-everybody-else crybaby who wasn't qualified be the captain of a rowboat.

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On the whole physicality topic, first and foremost, can we please stop equating "goonery" and physicality? Nobody's advocating going back to the days of four-hour games with 135 penalty minutes. 

 

But it is also inaccurate to claim that "the other guy won't dance" or that you're assured of being shorthanded if you answer a clear challenge to match physicality, or make someone pay for a cheap shot. McAvoy's hit on Jordan was both of those things, and if somebody on the Canes had called him out and he didn't respond, the Canes still get what they needed at that point in the game: motivation to win.

 

Also, regarding the claim that there are not enough skilled physical players to go around: Horse hockey. If you're playing a game requiring 40 pounds of protective gear and are not both expecting to get hit and convinced that you'd better know how to hit back, you're in the wrong sport--and shame on us for putting you on the roster.

Edited by top-shelf-1
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3 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

On the whole physicality topic, first and foremost, can we please stop equating "goonery" and physicality? Nobody's advocating going back to the days of four-hour games with 135 penalty minutes. 

 

But it is also inaccurate to claim that "the other guy won't dance" or that you're assured of being shorthanded if you answer a clear challenge to match physicality, or make someone pay for a cheap shot. McAvoy's hit on Jordan was both of those things, and if somebody on the Canes had called him out and he didn't respond, the Canes still get what they needed at that point in the game: motivation to win.

 

Also, regarding the claim that there are not enough skilled physical players to go around: Horse hockey. If you're playing a game requiring 40 pounds of protective gear and are not both expecting to get hit and convinced that you'd better know how to hit back, you're in the wrong sport--and shame on us for putting you on the roster.

Thank you top, that is exactly what I was attempting to say regarding "physicality". Further, when this confounding subject is brought up, for about the 1000th time, it seems to me that toughness suddenly equates in some minds as the goonery of yesteryear? I certainly don't think of it as that, but I will again restate that for instance, in this recent Boston game, I do not believe one can say it was simply a matter of their "tenacious defense", but more so an INTIMIDATING tenacious defense. Now, I recognize that my homeristic eyesight tends to ignore our transgressions, and focuses on the goonery of our opponents, but every game, liberties taken were much more lopsided by the Bruins? This has been our teams Achilles tendon for as long as I can remember, we seem to shrink away when physical teams push those limits. And to my mind, simply wishing physicality away by stating that the league is transitioning to "speed", isn't reality? This may be the case during the regular season, but playoffs revert back it would appear to physicality of yesteryear.  

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It’s a joke when players, coaches or fans refer to a certain team as being fast. No such thing as a slow team in the NHL. They’re all fast in this era. The smart teams find tough, intimidating and fast players. We need to steal that recipe. It works. 

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4 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

Now, I recognize that my homeristic eyesight tends to ignore our transgressions, and focuses on the goonery of our opponents, but every game, liberties taken were much more lopsided by the Bruins?

I think you hit the nail on the head. McAvoy and Marchard look like pests (at best) to our homer eyes (and flagrant takers of liberties at worst). But we'd change our tunes if they were Canes.

 

I am hoping both that we can hang onto Fleury and that he becomes the kind of intimidating Dman you're talking about. I'd like Pesce to turn up the "in-your-face" level of his on-ice persona, too. Hams and Slavin don't need to be "those" guys, but every D needs a guy or two who plays lots of minutes, and spends most of those minutes playing the man. When you've got that physical element and speed, you've got the two things that tip games in your favor late, because together, they wear teams down. 

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Just going to compile  a list of players to think about   who the Canes could possibly look at   for Free Agency  

 

Tyler Toffoli 

Vladislav Namestnikov 

Josh Leivo 

Erik Gustafsson 

Ask   Sami Vatanen  if he is willing to take a pay cut .  

 

And for goalies  

Markstrom  

Khudobin  again  

Dell  if possible ? 

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So for those who feel that the missing piece is more physicality, how would you fix it? Is it a philosophy missing from the current team or a lack of physically aggressive personnel? How many do we need to add, and at what positions? We've chased after physical players in the past with frankly net negative results mostly. We've also traded (or let walk) our hits leader and toughest D men in recent years, so not sure that the committee is really focusing on it. 

 

Skjei, Slavin, Pesce, Fleury, Staal, Hamilton, Foegele, Geekie, Svech and Nino are all bigger to big guys. Martinook and McGinn throw the body. Do we just need to get them to do more of it? 

 

I guess that while I don't disagree with adding grit and hit, we've have this discussion every time we lose, which, as is the case for 30 teams annually, is every year except 2005-06. 

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On Eric Staal's comment about being on average at best teams. Quite simply, you just don't say that. And especially if you were the captain. 

 

If you go back and look at the rosters for those teams? Well, in retrospect, yeah, they were not filled with All Stars. The depth was pretty thin. However, the talent that was there also underperformed along with Eric, the Captain, himself. Lindholm never brought the entire A game. Skinner was way up and down and rarely played defense. His own brother was also on those teams eating up a lot of cap space and maxing out at a Cane's career best 48 points. There was even HWSNBN at one point, the very picture boy for the effort that Captain Eric's teams brought. 

 

And Eric's production didn't just drop a touch. Here are his last 4 non lockout years points projected over 82 games:

 

70, 63, 57, 43. Not a trend one wanted to keep watching.

 

No the teams were not great. But neither was the Captain. And really, Eric, you just don't say those kinds of things.

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Just like I never will view Jordo as a true Captain (compared to the guy he replaced), Eric was never a true Captain...JR completely ****ed Rod over on how that was handled, and Rod handled it publicly with total class.  I know I was fuming when the change was announced...and fuming even more watching Eric completely crap the bed season after season while wearing the C that he never deserved in the first place.  Then JR went and traded for little brother...signed him to a 10 year extension with full NMC...oh, and here's an "A" for you before you've even played a game for us.  I can easily see why players such as LaRose and Bellemare left this team on such bad terms.  

 

Now, to those who don't think physicality doesn't matter...see Game 1 last night...Dallas DESTROYED Tampa in the physicality department, and look at the result...

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First, from my end, I have never have said that physicality doesn't matter. Second, it's up and down whether physical wins. Dallas got through in game 7 in OT vs a fast skill team that was hit with injuries. If Colorado gets that OT goal, we're talking about retooling Dallas probably. The NHL is always chasing the tail of whatever team wins the cup despite the huge amount of luck involved. Also, Dallas does have skill.

 

And that series is not over yet. Dallas did outmuscle Tampa in game one. If it keeps going that way they'll win and everyone will try to bulk up their teams. Of course that will create a seller's market for physical players making it harder for us to do it. 

 

Also, all I've been hearing about is how Tampa went out and added grit this year. So where was it? Could be Tampa was a bit tired while Dallas was rested? 

 

Too soon to tell. No doubt that Dallas has won this post season with the heavy team approach. LA also did it twice. So you can win cups with heavy teams. But 6 of the last 8 cups have been very skilled teams with varying amounts of physical. 

 

Again, to me at least, this does not mean that our team should not address an upgrade in the physical area, but chasing a heavy team would not only be a mistake, but really not doable. This is a skill team. We can add grit and hit where we can. We should upgrade there, as we are a bit light. 

 

But as we watch Edmundson sign in Montreal while, at least at the moment Gardiner remains, and our forwards are fairly locked in, it will be a trick to add much to this team in that department. In a perfect world we'd trade Nino for a hitting guy who can at least score some, or Dzingel or both, but what else? How do we actually do it? 

 

Maybe we get a few guys to play more physical. Fleury, Foegele? Staal? But they do hit now. I don't know, it's just hard to see it. 

 

Look I loved the effect that Ferland brought early in his tenure here. But it soon fizzled and the team still flourished. In his early versions, Ruutu was one of my favorite Canes. But both he and Ferland broke down. I'd take either of those guys when they were going, but chasing those kinds of guys just hasn't panned out yet. Keep trying I guess.

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26 minutes ago, remkin said:

Ruutu was one of my favorite Canes. But both he and Ferland broke down.

Ruutu fizzled because JR and Kirk consistently shuffled him on lines, then the moment he clicked with someone, that someone was traded...

Edited by AWACSooner

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9 hours ago, remkin said:

Do we just need to get them to do more of it? 

Yes, but they have to do it right, meaning not only legally but so they are not getting hurt, and while I'd like to think Roddy can make that happen, I believe we need a coach specifically detailed to the task of teaching guys how to hit--because despite Roddy and Peters before him preaching it again and again, nobody on this team would consistently go to the net in the past five years, save one, and it's the last guy to drop the mitts: Willy.

 

All the players you list, Rem, need to both learn how to hit and then to do more of it, by which I mean finish checks. And speaking of Finnish Czechs, TT, Aho, Necas and future "elite" (read: European) players need to know how to hit too, because if you don't understand physics in this game, you're going to be on the losing end as often as not. Hitting is a part of it, just like sniping and stickhandling and passing. It's a skill--and if you don't possess it, you will pay in both lost man-games and lost games period. Anyone on the ice who cannot anticipate a hit from an opposing player and throw a reverse shouldn't be on the ice in the first place. It should come as naturally as wanting to score goals.

 

Edited by top-shelf-1
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43 minutes ago, remkin said:

LA also did it twice. So you can win cups with heavy teams. But 6 of the last 8 cups have been very skilled teams with varying amounts of physical. 

If by this you are inferring that L.A. was not BOTH a highly skilled and physical team, I know a bunch of players who lost to them that would love to debate that with you. Chicago won two Cups in that same period and were willing to be physical when they had to be. The Craps were very arguably as physical as they were skilled, and so were St. Louis.

 

And that's really my point: If we agree that hitting cleanly and being willing (and knowing when) to toss the mitts adds a dimension--and I think we do--why would you not teach it, and require guys to learn it and to use it, the same as you do every other aspect of the game?

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I've made this statement before, but it's true.  I was in the building the first game after the trade that brought Cole back.  EStaal was being lackadaisical about getting back up the ice after a turnover, and Cole skated up behind him, put his stick in EStaal's back and pushed him up the ice.

 

Yeah, that quote pisses me off.

 

On Ruutu, loved the guy but he would pass up a hockey play to make a hit.  You need to balance that out.  Give me a Scott Walker and a Tim Gleason any day.  Had the edge when needed.

Edited by super_dave_1
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LA did have skill too. OK Chicago could hit, but not a physical team, this team does hit. Heck we won a cup, hit the SCF twice, hit the ECF four times and are 10-5 in series in the big bad playoffs. 

 

I do think a team needs toughness in what is a hugely physical game. That can include taking a hit too. But skill is the main ingredient, effort and tenacity, especially on D for forwards too are the other main ingredient with hitting and physical as the seasoning. Tastes bland and doesn't win awards without the seasoning, but there's not even a dish without the skill.

 

And I still thought Boston's smothering defense was more important overall than their hits and I'd still rather us get to that if I had to pick. 

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4 hours ago, remkin said:

On Eric Staal's comment about being on average at best teams. Quite simply, you just don't say that. And especially if you were the captain. 

 

If you go back and look at the rosters for those teams? Well, in retrospect, yeah, they were not filled with All Stars. The depth was pretty thin. However, the talent that was there also underperformed along with Eric, the Captain, himself. Lindholm never brought the entire A game. Skinner was way up and down and rarely played defense. His own brother was also on those teams eating up a lot of cap space and maxing out at a Cane's career best 48 points. There was even HWSNBN at one point, the very picture boy for the effort that Captain Eric's teams brought. 

 

And Eric's production didn't just drop a touch. Here are his last 4 non lockout years points projected over 82 games:

 

70, 63, 57, 43. Not a trend one wanted to keep watching.

 

No the teams were not great. But neither was the Captain. And really, Eric, you just don't say those kinds of things.

 

I'm 50-50.  If you're  a high end Center in your prime and have linemate/elite scorer and prolific play maker known as Chad LaRose for multiple seasons.  It probably takes its toll.

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17 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

 

I'm 50-50.  If you're  a high end Center in your prime and have linemate/elite scorer and prolific play maker known as Chad LaRose for multiple seasons.  It probably takes its toll.

Coaching matters too.  

 

But some things are better left unsaid when you enter a new room.  That's where I think he misstepped.

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