Jump to content
The Official Site of the Carolina Hurricanes
LakeLivin

Offseason Talk 2020

Recommended Posts

I Feel  for Jake Bean  .   He was the top ahl defense  man   coming into the playoffs and not once he had a chance to shine in the playoffs .    Instead of going after another defense man in the off season why not  see if Bean  can play  a good 15  games   and if people think he is not worth the time or effort investing  in him ( kind like  hayden fleury )   then  ship him off somewhere else ?   Like what is the point of drafting players if  the canes never end up using them ?  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, OBXer said:

 

and you said this without telling me I told you so 😁. After a few years of casting doubt upon Fluery I will be the first to admit you were right about him and I was wrong. He has found his game and I applaud that.

On the wider issue of can you have two much D. I think we do for reasons you outlined. I would like to see Edmundson back. Not sure how he would fit but I like his steady play and toughness.

When Fleury was drafted, it was noted by management that defensemen take longer to develop into NHL players.  Fleury has developed steadily into a player the Canes should make every effort to retain long term, along the lines of Slavin and Pesce. Ronnie Franchise nailed that pick, and predicted the timeline.  If exposed, he will scoop up Fleury in a heartbeat at the expansion draft.  In fact, those are the 3 defensemen that should be protected at the expansion draft after next season.  Also, I like your idea of having Edmundson return.  He brings the type of toughness that the team needs more of.  Goodbye to TVR, goodbye to Vatanen, try and say goodbye to Gardiner, and I am ambivalent at his cost, about Skjei.  Get one season out of Bean before likely losing him to Seattle.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Skjei was one of the better dmen for the team during the playoffs.  He brought some physicality and was jumping into the play on offense quite a bit.   I think he will be just fine moving forward.  Don’t understand why everyone wants him out.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Saw some banter on the Caps board (take that FWIW) that the Canes might be a potential suitor for Holtby. The feeling in Cap-land was last night was definitely his last game for DC. 
 

I’m not putting much stock into it nor am I hoping to dig up any past/duplicate discussions about it if unbeknownst to me. However, would love to hear other thoughts.

Edited by surfzone365

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Holtby is brought on for anything more than a cheap, 1 year contract  I will have lost all faith in the group's ability.  That guy has been on the down slide for 3 years.  Yay, he won a cup but he will be any team's whipping boy that signs him for 5+ million over multiple years.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

If Holtby is brought on for anything more than a cheap, 1 year contract  I will have lost all faith in the group's ability.  That guy has been on the down slide for 3 years.  Yay, he won a cup but he will be any team's whipping boy that signs him for 5+ million over multiple years.

To me, he is in Corey Crawford or Tukka Rask territory career-wise. Serviceable for a bit longer not a mainstay. As snake-bitten as the Caps fan base is, they’re turning against him isn’t surprising so I throw all that emotion out the window.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, iceman11 said:

Skjei was one of the better dmen for the team during the playoffs.  He brought some physicality and was jumping into the play on offense quite a bit.   I think he will be just fine moving forward.  Don’t understand why everyone wants him out.  

He  had to adjust to a new teams  scheme  quickly and people are short sided on that .    I like brady   so   as long as he works on  not turning over the puck   so much  the canes got a ready to play  defense man for the price of a  1st round pick .  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, beboplar said:

When Fleury was drafted, it was noted by management that defensemen take longer to develop into NHL players.  Fleury has developed steadily into a player the Canes should make every effort to retain long term, along the lines of Slavin and Pesce. Ronnie Franchise nailed that pick, and predicted the timeline.  If exposed, he will scoop up Fleury in a heartbeat at the expansion draft.  In fact, those are the 3 defensemen that should be protected at the expansion draft after next season.  Also, I like your idea of having Edmundson return.  He brings the type of toughness that the team needs more of.  Goodbye to TVR, goodbye to Vatanen, try and say goodbye to Gardiner, and I am ambivalent at his cost, about Skjei.  Get one season out of Bean before likely losing him to Seattle.  

Interesting , so you dont see Francis  going after pesce  ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Canesfanforever said:

Interesting , so you dont see Francis  going after pesce  ? 

 

 

I don't see Pesce being available to him.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, realmdrakkar said:

 

 

I don't see Pesce being available to him.

Exactly, if Pesce is made available, I'll lose it WHO could even conceive of that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, surfzone365 said:

To me, he is in Corey Crawford or Tukka Rask territory career-wise. Serviceable for a bit longer not a mainstay. As snake-bitten as the Caps fan base is, they’re turning against him isn’t surprising so I throw all that emotion out the window.  

  A 2 year deal is what makes sense to me. That would give Ned or whomever else may be the goalie of the future a chance to sink or swim in a learning role as a backup, because throwing a young goalie into the deep end can often not work out. I dont think Holtby is near done, but would rather they go after Lehner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, AmxCanes said:

  A 2 year deal is what makes sense to me. That would give Ned or whomever else may be the goalie of the future a chance to sink or swim in a learning role as a backup, because throwing a young goalie into the deep end can often not work out. I dont think Holtby is near done, but would rather they go after Lehner.

I agree with you here, but I've lost faith in Ned (if I ever had any). They need to move on from him and attempt to develop Kochetkov as well as move heaven and earth to get Askarov, Then I'd be comfortable with goalie coverage? 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

I agree with you here, but I've lost faith in Ned (if I ever had any). They need to move on from him and attempt to develop Kochetkov as well as move heaven and earth to get Askarov, Then I'd be comfortable with goalie coverage? 

This    ^  A Thousand times  this ! 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, KJUNKANE said:

I agree with you here, but I've lost faith in Ned (if I ever had any). They need to move on from him and attempt to develop Kochetkov as well as move heaven and earth to get Askarov, Then I'd be comfortable with goalie coverage? 

  I agree with you here !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Canes mgmt won’t be changing up the Keepers. They jointly played solid hockey prior to the shutdown and then played solid in this post season. D lapses by defensemen and forwards is what hurt us and not subpar or soft goaltending. Not to mention you won’t win many when you’re only scoring one or two goals a game.  For all the talk about having a top defense in the league there are still moves to be made there as well as moving a few underperforming forwards and signing some legit toughness to give the kids on the team more playing confidence; presently no-one has their backs other than maybe Joel. We need to play a heavier game. Last, IMO the days of having an undisputed #1 goalie carry 70% of the load is becoming history. I think this off season will see a focus on skaters and not Pete or Jim. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just say no to Holtby. OK, I feel the need to qualify that I'm the goalie shouter, meaning not the goalie whisperer. So, that case just say NOOOOO!!! to Holtby. He is no longer an upgrade at all, let alone the disruption it would cause. I'm still open to an upgrade in goal, but it needs to be a clear cut upgrade at least. In my not that expert opinion that's Lehner, and a couple of other guys. NOT Holtby, who has been frankly pretty bad for 3 seasons AND these playoffs.

 

My contention on goalie is that Reimer was good, but Mrazek uneven during the regular season. But both guys were really very good in the playoffs. It's at least a snapshot to rank goalies by save %. It's not as pure as goals above expected, which I can dig up, but it's something. 

 

Regular Season Rank Save %, min 20 games:

 

Reimer #21/57

Mrazek #41/57

Holtby: #52/57

(Lehner: #11/57)

 

Playoff Rank, min 3 games:

 

Reimer: #7/26 (.934)

Mrazek: #9/26 (.927)

Holtby: #18/26 (.906)

 

Really, despite Brind'Amour's tendency to favor Mrazek, Reimer has been better consistently (despite the big gaff). Mrazek was really as good in the playoffs, and has that ability to rise to the occasion, but the small sample size is a factor there. If I had to keep one guy to get say Lehner, I'd keep Reimer. 

 

As one can see though, despite Reimer being very solid, there were 20 goalies better, and for Mrazek 40 goalies were better. 

 

Lehner, Raanta, Markstrom, these guys would be clear upgrades, if we could get them. 

I have to admit that Jake Allen had an outlier year and playoffs. Has he figured something out? There were 2-3 really bad seasons before this year, so I'm not sure.

 

But not Holtby. He may find some sort of renaissance next year, but it's not worth the price in dollars or in team disruption to roll those dice.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of off season decisions shall be based upon financial matters.  The Marleau, JW and Faulk dollars come off the books.  Edmundson, TVR, and Vatanen are UFA's.  They should certainly explore a long term deal with Svechnikov.  As far as money goes, that is priority #1 as far as where to spend.  The Hamilton situation is trickier because of the expansion draft.  The way I see it, the 3 defensemen the Canes are going to want to protect (if I am suddenly occupying the GM seat) are Slavin, Pesce, and Fleury.  Some kind of sweetener deal will have to be worked out with Hamilton ahead of time to allow him to reach UFA status and not protect him with an understanding that they want to resign him.  Thus, money has to be set aside for long term deals with Svechnikov, Hamilton, and Fleury.  Any other money spent on additional assets can only be based upon the deletion of unwanted contracts (Nino, Gardiner, Dzingel).  I am not a fan of pursuing another goalie while we have two NHL goalies under contract, neither of whom disappointed.  If they can use a combination of the above 3 to unload in exchange for a hard nosed player, that makes sense to me.  Bringing back Edmundson on a short term deal as a depth piece also makes sense.  I have said it before, but again, bringing back Vatanen on any deal while Bean rests on an entry level contract is crazy.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  The problem I see with having goalies like we do a 1a 1b, so to speak, is that I cant figure out how this helps a younger goalie. Assuming that your 1a, 1b might UFA off, get traded or even retire. Having a 55-60 #1 to take pressure off, and mentor the next great thing. A young goalie needs to play, but he cant be thrown to the wolves expected to perform like a veteran.

  Unless youre saying, we dont plan on a future only on the now, then a 1a, 1b is the way to go.

  But I do agree with the need for more toughness and have said so several times. While guys like Svech and Necas need to show they wont be pushed around and can stand up for themselves there are better things they should be doing than being in the top 5 on the team in hits

Edited by AmxCanes
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/21/2020 at 7:37 AM, gocanes0506 said:

Im not disagreeing with you point.  As I mentioned just one post up, we have the grit but aren’t using it.

 

Hits: 2018-2019 Martinook 199, CdH 187, Ferland 182, Dougie 160, Faulk 156, McGinn 137, Foegele 126, Svech 123, Staal 122, etc
2019-2020 Staal: 149, Edmundson 118, Svech 116, McGinn 80, Martinook 72, Necas 65, Foegele 63 (Necas as our 6th highest hitter is ridiculous).

big dip from Martinook, McGinn, Foegele, and Hamilton.  I don’t think its a lack of grit its a change in playing philosophy.

 

that is my point about the team has to decide its identity. If we are going with skating and skill, we need 3 scoring lines and scour pad line.  Why do we have half a roster of scour pad dudes then?  Doesn’t make a ton of sense. It looks worse when your 2nd line stops scoring.
 

if we are going to be a rough team then have your physical dudes hit people.  If we are going with passing, skating, and scoring we need a couple less physical guys and more scorers. 

You did a good job with the stats and I think you're right about a change of philosophy.  I'm just extremely disappointed with the team's effort.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/21/2020 at 11:55 AM, Canesfanforever said:

Interesting , so you dont see Francis  going after pesce  ? 

Exposing Pesce in the expansion draft would be so incredibly DUMB that I am not sure I could recover to continue following this franchise after 40+ years.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, beboplar said:

Exposing Pesce in the expansion draft would be so incredibly DUMB that I am not sure I could recover to continue following this franchise after 40+ years.

There is reason for concern if Pesce has become injury prone .    Although the term  can be taken lightly  in the sense that it is possible that A  players health  could be  better taken care of  so that  injuries are not always occurring .     But in some cases  it tends to happen .    In the Case of Michael Ferland  he  eventually  became  injury prone  . 

 

It is part of hockey  .    You could have a really excellent  player   and  then one day  they just  end up  getting injured    at the drop of a hat .  

 

With Pesce  he and a few others on the Canes Roster  are having injures more often . 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Canesfanforever said:

There is reason for concern if Pesce has become injury prone .    Although the term  can be taken lightly  in the sense that it is possible that A  players health  could be  better taken care of  so that  injuries are not always occurring .     But in some cases  it tends to happen .    In the Case of Michael Ferland  he  eventually  became  injury prone  . 

 

It is part of hockey  .    You could have a really excellent  player   and  then one day  they just  end up  getting injured    at the drop of a hat .  

 

With Pesce  he and a few others on the Canes Roster  are having injures more often . 

 

 

Over the past 5 season, Pesce has played in 350 regular season games, or an average of 70 per season, with no season under 61.  This is a physical game, and that is a good "attendance record".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, beboplar said:

Over the past 5 season, Pesce has played in 350 regular season games, or an average of 70 per season, with no season under 61.  This is a physical game, and that is a good "attendance record".

The shoulder Injury was a pretty big  one though .    If it is  a consistent theme   ( Which im hoping it is not )   Carolina  might have to reconsider  what their plans are with Brett . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Canesfanforever said:

The shoulder Injury was a pretty big  one though .    If it is  a consistent theme   ( Which im hoping it is not )   Carolina  might have to reconsider  what their plans are with Brett . 

It's a double edged sword.  If his injury is career threatening, then I don't expect other GMs to be lining up to compete over his contract. I expect Pesce will return and continue to have a great career for the Canes.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, beboplar said:

It's a double edged sword.  If his injury is career threatening, then I don't expect other GMs to be lining up to compete over his contract. I expect Pesce will return and continue to have a great career for the Canes.

I hope so also .   It's very hard to find right handed Shut down  defense men .   Crazy enough Carolina has  3 . 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...