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Offseason Talk 2020

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1 hour ago, Canesfanforever said:

Fleury  a few years back was the AHL  defense man of the year  also .    There is  time in the NHL  that players need to have in order to adjust to the speed and skill level  at a way higher level than what the AHL  provides .   I dont recall  Sabation Aho  spending  much time  at all in the ahl  do you ?

 

Needless to say Francis did select  Bean and he did it with  Bill peters system in mind .   Not  Brind'amours  obviously .   so  Is Jake Bean ready for the riggers of a very tight schedule  of 82 games ?    Who knows .    What  Brind'Amour wants out of his players is Reliability  in their own zone .  If they can't provide that to the team then they are not worth  ice time with the team .    Bean  Has all the potential of being an Elite player  but it is  on the low side of it  panning out much to the degree of  Fleury  ,  Difference is   Fleury is a big boy that can skate like the wind and  Bean is  not  that fast or  a big boy .  


Why are you making things up? Fleury was never an AHL D of the year. It also took injuries to 2 top 4 D for him to finally get an opportunity. RBA will not play Bean if there are D vets available in front of him. Time to realize that and sell high.

 

Aho didn’t need AHL time since he could actually play NHL defense. Bean has not stuck because he cannot play NHL defense.

Edited by spockrock
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2 hours ago, cc said:

Explain this for me?   He play 3 games this year.  He was 1 and 2,  His 2 losses did stink(PHI,DAL) but we only scored 1 goal in each of those.  Not shabby teams. So how would we really know much ?


He was very sparingly used at the NHL level by a team with goaltending issues after being voted the “best” goaltender in the minors. I don’t put much stock in being the “best” of anything in the minors.
 

Bean was voted best AHL D for his offensive production only. Was he ever used on the Checkers penalty kill? Nope. Was he ever used in shut-down situations? Nope. Forsling and McKeown were the guys for those situations. Guys, that actually can play defense, to an extent. 
 

Bean will never be trusted by Brind’Amour. As long as the team has Gardiner on the roster, Bean is completely redundant. If they move Gardiner, they yeah, give him a sheltered 3rd pair role and see what you have. But, I really don’t see any teams lining up to take Gardiner at $4M for each of the next 3 years. I’d move Bean now while his value likely still high and prior to the risk of losing him for nothing to Seattle.

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2 hours ago, spockrock said:


He was very sparingly used at the NHL level by a team with goaltending issues after being voted the “best” goaltender in the minors. I don’t put much stock in being the “best” of anything in the minors.
 

Bean was voted best AHL D for his offensive production only. Was he ever used on the Checkers penalty kill? Nope. Was he ever used in shut-down situations? Nope. Forsling and McKeown were the guys for those situations. Guys, that actually can play defense, to an extent. 
 

Bean will never be trusted by Brind’Amour. As long as the team has Gardiner on the roster, Bean is completely redundant. If they move Gardiner, they yeah, give him a sheltered 3rd pair role and see what you have. But, I really don’t see any teams lining up to take Gardiner at $4M for each of the next 3 years. I’d move Bean now while his value likely still high and prior to the risk of losing him for nothing to Seattle.

Thing that sucks  with Gardiner  is he has a ntc   meaning the canes are forced to protect him unless  the canes   can find  a team that would be willing to take on that STUPID  contract  on  and  allow  Gardiner to waive  his  contract .   Detroit right now  seems to be the location for  salary dumps   As long as  detroit gets   2nd round pick of some sort .  or maybe  a prospect .     Seattle wont lose any sleep who they take from the canes next year .   

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33 minutes ago, Canesfanforever said:

Thing that sucks  with Gardiner  is he has a ntc   meaning the canes are forced to protect him unless  the canes   can find  a team that would be willing to take on that STUPID  contract  on  and  allow  Gardiner to waive  his  contract .   Detroit right now  seems to be the location for  salary dumps   As long as  detroit gets   2nd round pick of some sort .  or maybe  a prospect .     Seattle wont lose any sleep who they take from the canes next year .   


Again, as you were Fleury being a former AHL D of the year,  you’re completely wrong on Gardiner and how his NTC will be treated when it comes with the expansion draft.
 

Only players with a no-move clause HAVE to be protected. In the Canes’ case, the only player they HAVE to protect is Staal, since he has a no-move clause. They can ask him to waive it so they could expose him,but he’d be completely in his rights to not waive.

 

Gardiner has a 7 team no-trade clause. This means he can’t be traded to 7 teams only and can be traded to any other team not on his list. His NTC has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with whether or not the Canes will be forced to use or will use a protection slot on him.

 

A likely expansion draft scenario is that they go 7-3-1, protecting 7 forwards, 3 D and 1 goalie. My guess on the 7 forwards would be Staal, Aho, Teravainen, Svechnikov, Trocheck and 2 out of Geekie/ Foegele/ Martinook(if re-signed) or perhaps they use the last 2 slots on acquisitions to come via ufa or trade. On D I’d imagine the 3 would be Slavin/Pesce/ Hamilton (if re-signed. If Hamilton is not re-signed, then I imagine they’d protect Skjei or Fleury with that last slot.

 

The most likely scenario in my view is that Bean, Fleury, Skjei and Gardiner are exposed with one of Bean or Fleury gone to Seattle. So yeah, I’d trade Bean at the 2020 draft quite easily in lieu of losing him for nothing.

 

FYI-Necas, Keane and most, of not all of the prospects selected since 2018 are exempt from the expansion draft.

Edited by spockrock
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26 minutes ago, spockrock said:


Again, as you were Fleury being a former AHL D of the year,  you’re completely wrong on Gardiner and how his NTC will be treated when it comes with the expansion draft.
 

Only players with a no-move clause HAVE to be protected. In the Canes’ case, the only player they HAVE to protect is Staal, since he has a no-move clause. They can ask him to waive it so they could expose him,but he’d be completely in his rights to not waive.

 

Gardiner has a 7 team no-trade clause. This means he can’t be traded to 7 teams only and can be traded to any other team not on his list. His NTC has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with whether or not the Canes will be forced to use or will use a protection slot on him.

 

A likely expansion draft scenario is that they go 7-3-1, protecting 7 forwards, 3 D and 1 goalie. My guess on the 7 forwards would be Staal, Aho, Teravainen, Svechnikov, Trocheck and 2 out of Geekie/ Foegele/ Martinook(if re-signed) or perhaps they use the last 2 slots on acquisitions to come via ufa or trade. On D I’d imagine the 3 would be Slavin/Pesce/ Hamilton (if re-signed. If Hamilton is not re-signed, then I imagine they’d protect Skjei or Fleury with that last slot.

 

The most likely scenario in my view is that Bean, Fleury, Skjei and Gardiner are exposed with one of Bean or Fleury gone to Seattle. So yeah, I’d trade Bean at the 2020 draft quite easily in lieu of losing him for nothing.

 

FYI-Necas, Keane and most, of not all of the prospects selected since 2018 are exempt from the expansion draft.

Thank you for clearing that up .   I was under the assumption that NTC   had to also be included in being protected  .   Good to know that they dont have to be . 

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On 10/1/2020 at 2:04 PM, spockrock said:

He was very sparingly used at the NHL level by a team with goaltending issues after being voted the “best” goaltender in the minors. I don’t put much stock in being the “best” of anything in the minors.

Your second sentence is spot on. Your first (in particular the bold) is complete fantasy.

 

You're talking about an org that once creased Johnny Graham Crackers, for crying out loud. The "goaltending issues" of the past season were not issues at all compared to any of the prior 10. Now, does Ned make it eventually? Who knows. But when you've got two bonafide NHL keepers, one of whom very quietly made nothing short of a career-saving comeback when pretty much everyone had counted him done, and when you finish sixth in the league's best conference with a .600 winning percentage and +29 goal diff, you don't have goaltending issues.

 

There was no need to rush Ned into an NHL crease this season. The more rubber he sees at the AHL level the more he can work on his positioning fundamentals, which, I think we'll agree, still need considerable work. As you say, his kudos there are meaningless, because the talent at that level doesn't make you pay for every mistake. It is a lot easier to win games on pure heart in the AHL than the NHL. Keepers who are successful under the age of 25 in the NHL are the exception for a reason: those who get rushed often never recover from the damage wreaked on their self-confidence due to being embarrassed night after night.

 

The same can be said of the team's approach with Bean. Though you saw the need for him this year, I did not, and apparently our record verifies that. We are so rich in D we'd be foolish to rush any of our D prospects. While I agree with you that Bean probably isn't Roddy's preferred type of Dman, I disagree that it has been a factor in not icing him in Raleigh yet. Like keepers, D mature gradually, and denying them the time to do so--unless their last name is Orr--is almost always a mistake.

 

Edited by top-shelf-1

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Rumored we offered Svech 8 years at $7M or that neighborhood. DW says maybe a bridge deal makes more sense in the N/O. 

 

To that point the N/O has stories on the draft and UFA's and if you're on this board, they just recap what we already know. I guess written for the casual fan. 

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On the Concerns of Developing talents     the top prospects the Canes  have  are these guys listed here 

 

Patrick Puistola 

Anttoni  Honka 

Jesper Sellgren 

Dominik  Bokk 

Jamison Rees 

Jack Drury 

Ryan Suzuki 

Stelio Mattheos 

Jake Bean 

 

Anyone who i have not mentioned  are either past their chance  of unlikely  to make it  a  career in the nhl . 

 

For obvious reasons  you dont want to rush the talent .    

 

But if the talent here do end up succeeding  it will be  because they are not only physically ready  but  mostly  mentally  ready  for  the game .  

 

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Canesfanforever said:

On the Concerns of Developing talents     the top prospects the Canes  have  are these guys listed here 

 

Patrick Puistola 

Anttoni  Honka 

Jesper Sellgren 

Dominik  Bokk 

Jamison Rees 

Jack Drury 

Ryan Suzuki 

Stelio Mattheos 

Jake Bean 

 

Anyone who i have not mentioned  are either past their chance  of unlikely  to make it  a  career in the nhl . 

 

Need to add Joey Keane, and  I'd probably add Fensore on D, and Cotton and Tieksola at F. 

 

But the point I want to make is that, while DW talks about wanting more offense and TD talks about never having enough goal scorers, that list is mostly full of forwards. I'm not saying we don't proceed to use #13 on another forward, but it sort of makes the point that if every there were a year to take the plunge at goalie, this could be it.

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1 hour ago, remkin said:

Need to add Joey Keane, and  I'd probably add Fensore on D, and Cotton and Tieksola at F. 

 

But the point I want to make is that, while DW talks about wanting more offense and TD talks about never having enough goal scorers, that list is mostly full of forwards. I'm not saying we don't proceed to use #13 on another forward, but it sort of makes the point that if every there were a year to take the plunge at goalie, this could be it.

Joey Keane  for some crazy reason i feel  wont make it to the nhl  ,   I think the rangers  took advantage of that knowledge and got the better of the deal even if  Gauthier  ends up just being a bottom 6 player with some mid top 6   potential .     I dont know why Brind'Amour   felt like he had to be traded .     Some  guys  dont usually do much in their first year in the nhl and  end up getting  better over time   as they get more experience .     Case in point   Joe Thornton .   

 

 

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Rumor has Matt Niskanen retiring from Flyers? Not confirmed that I know of, but with flat cap, threat of Covid and an assundry  of other factors, I wonder who might follow suit?

Edited by KJUNKANE

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3 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

Rumor has Matt Niskanen retiring from Flyers? Not confirmed that I know of, but with flat cap, threat of Covid and an assundry  of other factors, I wonder who might follow suit?


It’s up in the NHL website that he announced his retirement. Seems like it’s official since the Flyers put out a statement thanking him for his time there.

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Bishop, Foegele, Lorentz, Stallman, Fleury, Forsling, Kaski, and McKeown all receive QOs

 

booth and pritchard did not

Edited by gocanes0506
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Don Waddell went on XM during the draft, I guess we had it dialed in on autopilot. It was around the 5th round though.

 

Didn't really say too much we didn't know. Said they loved Jarvis' vision and hockey IQ. His skill is there but the vision and IQ off the charts. Said we plan to sign Dougy and keep him here for a long time. Slyly admitted we're kicking some goalie tires and in UFA could use another forward. When asked to name a couple of up and coming yutes, he used the question to talk about the culture Brind'Amour is building. 

 

Said every call he's gotten in the past 2 weeks was GM"s looking to dump salary. There is market to take advantage of there (my comment).

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20 minutes ago, remkin said:

Don Waddell went on XM during the draft, I guess we had it dialed in on autopilot. It was around the 5th round though.

 

Didn't really say too much we didn't know. Said they loved Jarvis' vision and hockey IQ. His skill is there but the vision and IQ off the charts. Said we plan to sign Dougy and keep him here for a long time. Slyly admitted we're kicking some goalie tires and in UFA could use another forward. When asked to name a couple of up and coming yutes, he used the question to talk about the culture Brind'Amour is building. 

 

Said every call he's gotten in the past 2 weeks was GM"s looking to dump salary. There is market to take advantage of there (my comment).

So in other words  he did not want to spill the " beans "   if  you catch my drift . 

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Low key addition options:

 

Pitlick, RW, hitter

Koivu, C. Leader. Great candidate for 4C if Geekie moves up to 3RW. Good mentor for Aho, Necas, etc.  Good scoring depth on the bottom line and will play a RBA type game

Kahun, LW. Late bloomer German who has put up decent scoring numbers the last 2 seasons. Wasnt qualified by Buffalo

Wallmark. Not qualified with Florida. I know recycling is a JR thing but we know he works here.

if Wennberg is bought out, he could be a good find for us.

 

any other small, under 3 million add we think will be a sneaky good add?

Edited by gocanes0506

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14 hours ago, remkin said:

When asked to name a couple of up and coming yutes, he used the question to talk about the culture Brind'Amour is building.

 

DW for senate!

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On 10/1/2020 at 1:37 PM, spockrock said:

A likely expansion draft scenario is that they go 7-3-1, protecting 7 forwards, 3 D and 1 goalie. My guess on the 7 forwards would be Staal, Aho, Teravainen, Svechnikov, Trocheck and 2 out of Geekie/ Foegele/ Martinook(if re-signed) or perhaps they use the last 2 slots on acquisitions to come via ufa or trade. On D I’d imagine the 3 would be Slavin/Pesce/ Hamilton (if re-signed. If Hamilton is not re-signed, then I imagine they’d protect Skjei or Fleury with that last slot.

 

The most likely scenario in my view is that Bean, Fleury, Skjei and Gardiner are exposed with one of Bean or Fleury gone to Seattle. So yeah, I’d trade Bean at the 2020 draft quite easily in lieu of losing him for nothing.

 

 

I agree with your expansion draft outlook.  I have made my position clear for about 6 months now that the best play would be to reach a hand shake agreement with Hamilton for an extension, but not sign him prior to the expansion draft, allowing the team to protect Slavin, Pesce, and Fleury as the 3 defensemen.  They have developed Fleury patiently, and he is rounding into a hard hitting, dependable blue liner, at a still reasonable cost.  Skjei's and Gardiner's costs may scare off Seattle.  I don't see them being able to sign Hamilton ahead of free agency anyway, so this is the best case scenario if they can pull it off.  I believe Martinook will be a free agent, so Geekie and Foegele may indeed be #'s 6 and 7.  Bringing back Marty would be nice though.  It is possible Bean will end up being picked.

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6 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

Are we going to go for a goalie thus off season?

Hard to say, lots of dominos have to fall and the hockey gods have to be properly aligned?

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26 minutes ago, bluedevil58 said:

Are we going to go for a goalie thus off season?

Magic 8 ball says, "signs point to Yes".

 

We've been rumored to be kicking the bushes on nearly every goalie rumored to be available.                                          

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