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LakeLivin

Offseason Talk 2020

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I'm pretty sure a player with a NMC can waive it for the expansion draft. But does anyone know if he can waive it for the expansion draft but retain it otherwise if not chosen?

 

The closest thing I can find is that it's likely that a player can waive for a trade but only if the acquiring team is willing to extend his NMC.

 

from the NHLPA: 

...An acquiring club may agree to continue to be bound by the no-Trade or no-move clause, which agreement shall be evidenced in writing to the Player, Central Registry and the NHLPA... (11.8)

[So it seems like the player could refuse to sign off on a trade unless the acquiring team concurrently honored extension of his NMC in writing]

Given his contract, it seems like there's almost no chance that Seattle would choose Jordan Staal in the expansion draft. If it meant the Canes could retain one more starting player at a time the Canes should be legitimate Cup contenders, and Staal could retain his NMC afterwards, why wouldn't a true team leader not waive for the expansion draft?  

 

 

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37 minutes ago, LakeLivin said:

I'm pretty sure a player with a NMC can waive it for the expansion draft. But does anyone know if he can waive it for the expansion draft but retain it otherwise if not chosen?

 

The closest thing I can find is that it's likely that a player can waive for a trade but only if the acquiring team is willing to extend his NMC.

 

from the NHLPA: 

...An acquiring club may agree to continue to be bound by the no-Trade or no-move clause, which agreement shall be evidenced in writing to the Player, Central Registry and the NHLPA... (11.8)

[So it seems like the player could refuse to sign off on a trade unless the acquiring team concurrently honored extension of his NMC in writing]

Given his contract, it seems like there's almost no chance that Seattle would choose Jordan Staal in the expansion draft. If it meant the Canes could retain one more starting player at a time the Canes should be legitimate Cup contenders, and Staal could retain his NMC afterwards, why wouldn't a true team leader not waive for the expansion draft?  

 

 

1 answer as to why it wont happen ?

 

This  guy ! image.jpeg.1dd1b5189ab5111f760257996cc19d99.jpeg

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Okay    , lately  on these forums i have seen posters  mention  how   certain players  get described  as  having vision or  Hockey sense , or   High Hockey IQ   and   question the  validity  of the   claim  either from a  comedic Stand point   or  generalized questioning .

 

To help  Clear things up  when players are Described   such terms when they are Attached to players  I will  go on to Explain what they mean  from a Former Hockey  players point of View  in layman's  terms . 

 

Vision -  Means a player can  see   open spaces  on the ice that  can be accessible  to skate towards   either  to play on  an offensive  attack or  to counter in a defensive attack .

 

Hockey Sense  -  Means    that  a player  can  read  the play  on the ice    before  the play develops   and be a  johnny on the spot    to take advantage of   the outcome . 

for example (     knowing  where the passing lanes are ,  where the shooting lanes are ,  knowing when to go on defense  before the play on ice breaks down or  changes )

 

High Hockey IQ  -   Means  knowing what systems are being played  , or changed  , or  what strategy to use   . 

 

In hockey there is  many  different  styles to  play hockey .   A trap   is referred to in hockey  as  a    1-3-1   ( where you would have 1 forward   out in front , 2  forwards and a defense man  and   one  defense man  back )  

 

In Hockey  most teams will run  several   systems   during the course of a game to throw off their  opponent  in how the team would play on ice .   If a player  is able to recognize that  and  know what they must   do or  how to  attack or defend  against it    is a measure of   hockey IQ .  

 

 

You would think  the terms  would be  a thing for most  players drafted   , but not always . 

 

I hope this clears things up . 

 

 

  

 

 

Edited by Canesfanforever

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31 minutes ago, Canesfanforever said:

To help  Clear things up  when players are Described   such terms when they are Attached to players  I will  go on to Explain what they mean  from a Former Hockey  players point of View  in layman's  terms . 

Oh please... I play beer league on Wednesdays and Sundays, so does that give me a platform as a "current hockey player"?

 

I've read these boards long enough to know that the majority here are well aware of what these terms mean. When attached to draft prospects, they tend to come across more as generic "filler" words to pump up their value than as anything that actually distinguishes them from others. Occasionally they matter (Gauthier hockey IQ example mentioned earlier), but they're otherwise about as insightful as between-period interviews. 

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32 minutes ago, Stealth-ch1 said:

Oh please... I play beer league on Wednesdays and Sundays, so does that give me a platform as a "current hockey player"?

 

I've read these boards long enough to know that the majority here are well aware of what these terms mean. When attached to draft prospects, they tend to come across more as generic "filler" words to pump up their value than as anything that actually distinguishes them from others. Occasionally they matter (Gauthier hockey IQ example mentioned earlier), but they're otherwise about as insightful as between-period interviews. 

I would say it is more catered to those who are new to hockey  , new to being  canes  fans  if anything that has questions  in regards to the game and it's many phrases .

Being helpful and teaching  is something i take pride in .  

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On 10/8/2020 at 12:58 PM, LakeLivin said:

I'm pretty sure a player with a NMC can waive it for the expansion draft. But does anyone know if he can waive it for the expansion draft but retain it otherwise if not chosen?

 

The closest thing I can find is that it's likely that a player can waive for a trade but only if the acquiring team is willing to extend his NMC.

 

from the NHLPA: 

...An acquiring club may agree to continue to be bound by the no-Trade or no-move clause, which agreement shall be evidenced in writing to the Player, Central Registry and the NHLPA... (11.8)

[So it seems like the player could refuse to sign off on a trade unless the acquiring team concurrently honored extension of his NMC in writing]

Given his contract, it seems like there's almost no chance that Seattle would choose Jordan Staal in the expansion draft. If it meant the Canes could retain one more starting player at a time the Canes should be legitimate Cup contenders, and Staal could retain his NMC afterwards, why wouldn't a true team leader not waive for the expansion draft? 

Lake, when I read through the rules for the Vegas expansion (which are the same this time) I took the waiver of NMC to be temporary, i.e., this is happening and while it plays out the NMC is null and void. But whether the player waiving is taken by the expansion team or stays with his current one, the NMC is back in force once the draft is complete.

 

If the Canes are smart (and Jordan is willing) they will work a deal with Seattle prior to the draft, like they did with Vegas, when they gave the new team a fifth-round pick in exchange for agreeing in advance to take Connor Brickley in the draft. This time around they could offer a higher pick--a second-rounder, maybe?--and agree to retain half of Jordan's salary if Seattle agrees to draft him in expansion. As I've written elsewhere, Seattle would get a ready-made journeyman Captain with a Cup ring and well-known hockey name, while the Canes would both shed a crappy contract and open the slot Trochek should have been playing in all along.  

Edited by top-shelf-1
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8 hours ago, top-shelf-1 said:

Lake, when I read through the rules for the Vegas expansion (which are the same this time) I took the waiver of NMC to be temporary, i.e., this is happening and while it plays out the NMC is null and void. But whether the player waiving is taken by the expansion team or stays with his current one, the NMC is back in force once the draft is complete.

 

If the Canes are smart (and Jordan is willing) they will work a deal with Seattle prior to the draft, like they did with Vegas, when they gave the new team a fifth-round pick in exchange for agreeing in advance to take Connor Brickley in the draft. This time around they could offer a higher pick--a second-rounder, maybe?--and agree to retain half of Jordan's salary if Seattle agrees to draft him in expansion. As I've written elsewhere, Seattle would get a ready-made journeyman Captain with a Cup ring and well-known hockey name, while the Canes would both shed a crappy contract and open the slot Trochek should have been playing in all along.  

 

Tbh Top, I don't see much chance of that happening.  Brindy has made it pretty clear how he feels about Staal.  And I can't see much motivation for Jordan to waive to go to Seattle.  His family has to be really settled in Raleigh, and I'm pretty sure he's alluded to the fact that he isn't a "hockey first" person. He already has a (supposedly) strong leadership role with the Canes, so I don't know that the chance to lead a new franchise would be an incentive, even if that fit his personality (which I don't think it does).   Now, maybe if Eric and Marc were in Seattle, but I don't see that happening, either. 

 

But if Staal can temporarily waive to add another protection spot, with virtually no chance of actually being picked, I see little down side for him. So if that meant we could keep a Bean, Fleury, Skjei, Foegele, or Geekie where we'd otherwise lose them?  I hope he'd at least strongly consider it. Noting that unless we pay off Seattle we're still going to lose a good roster player, regardless. I guess that comes with finally reaching the status of being a good, deep franchise. 

 

edit: as much as I'd love it, I can't see the Committee pulling off another Connor Brickley, lol. Last time we were paying Vegas to not take Lee Stempniak. This time it's likely one of the players I mentioned above. Gotta believe that would come at a much steeper price. 

Edited by LakeLivin

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I like our Future group better .

 

 

Forwards 

Turbo , Aho , Jarvis 

Svech , Ponomarev , Necas 

Pashin , Suzuki , Bokk 

Puistola , Drury , Gunler 

 

Defense 

Slavin , Hamilton

Fleury , Keane 

Nikishin, Honka 

Bean 🤣

 

Goalies 

???

??? 

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I don't know how things will fit, but I wouldn't mind if Marc-Andre Fleury did a stint with us. Maybe Mrazek or Reimer will find greener pastures. If they both go, Ned will have to back up The Flower. 

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12 minutes ago, Bing_Chow said:

I don't know how things will fit, but I wouldn't mind if Marc-Andre Fleury did a stint with us. Maybe Mrazek or Reimer will find greener pastures. If they both go, Ned will have to back up The Flower. 

Oh my, no. 
 

MAF-Ned would close to the worst tandem in the league

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14 minutes ago, Bing_Chow said:

I don't know how things will fit, but I wouldn't mind if Marc-Andre Fleury did a stint with us. Maybe Mrazek or Reimer will find greener pastures. If they both go, Ned will have to back up The Flower. 

a 3 way trade    is the idea . But personally  im against the idea on taking MAF .  for several reasons why . 

 

His  Salary is way to much  even if it was possible to be retained .   Then there is  the Factor of his age and  his health .   A Healthy Flower  is   good  but  not many of those days would be a thing .    The Goalie search is not this year for the Canes  unfortunately  .    Better to wait until  2021  once  the Expansion draft is over .     Im not happy about it   like anyone else  but  Canes need to think tong term  and  keeping Svech and Necas  and Hamilton . 

Edited by Canesfanforever

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6 hours ago, LakeLivin said:

 

Tbh Top, I don't see much chance of that happening.  Brindy has made it pretty clear how he feels about Staal.  And I can't see much motivation for Jordan to waive to go to Seattle.  His family has to be really settled in Raleigh, and I'm pretty sure he's alluded to the fact that he isn't a "hockey first" person. He already has a (supposedly) strong leadership role with the Canes, so I don't know that the chance to lead a new franchise would be an incentive, even if that fit his personality (which I don't think it does).   Now, maybe if Eric and Marc were in Seattle, but I don't see that happening, either. 

 

But if Staal can temporarily waive to add another protection spot, with virtually no chance of actually being picked, I see little down side for him. So if that meant we could keep a Bean, Fleury, Skjei, Foegele, or Geekie where we'd otherwise lose them?  I hope he'd at least strongly consider it. Noting that unless we pay off Seattle we're still going to lose a good roster player, regardless. I guess that comes with finally reaching the status of being a good, deep franchise. 

 

edit: as much as I'd love it, I can't see the Committee pulling off another Connor Brickley, lol. Last time we were paying Vegas to not take Lee Stempniak. This time it's likely one of the players I mentioned above. Gotta believe that would come at a much steeper price. 

1. There is no way Seattle is taking a 34 year old checking center who makes $6 million/year.

2. We have too many young players we cannot protect who have not reached their ceiling yet, some of whom Francis drafted. Pretty sure he will choose one of them unless he needs a more experienced player on a bigger contract to reach the salary floor.

3. If we want to offer Ron a draft pick to protect additional players, maybe he goes for it because he thinks that serves the long-term interest of his team. But I don’t expect him to do the Canes any favors.

 

On M-A Fleury, at best I don’t see him at his age improving us over the 2 guys we have now. Vegas picked up Lehner and is looking to move Fleury for a reason. At his age, expecting him to bounce back and regain the form he showed 2 years ago is more than a crapshoot. The flat cap going forward with Svech, Hamilton and others needing raises is going to keep us from making a big goalie move unless we can shed a couple contracts.

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6 hours ago, Canesfanforever said:

I like our Future group better .

 

 

Forwards 

Turbo , Aho , Jarvis 

Svech , Ponomarev , Necas 

Pashin , Suzuki , Bokk 

Puistola , Drury , Gunler 

 

Defense 

Slavin , Hamilton

Fleury , Keane 

Nikishin, Honka 

Bean 🤣

 

Goalies 

???

??? 

Where is Pesce?

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Best non-Canes move so far this off season was letting TVR walk; a bottom feeder who held a slot that should have been filled by Checkers/Wolves emerging AHL talent this last season. 

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5 hours ago, Canesfanforever said:

Maybe for better players  . aka goalie /s  ?

Where  do you  come  up with these    bizarre thoughts   ??  Trading Pesce for   a a  better defenseman  ?  And Skjei   is gone  too ? To who  for who  ?Traded  for a   Keeper  when  so  many available via  free agency  ? You’re joking  right  ?

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3 hours ago, raleighcaniac said:

Best non-Canes move so far this off season was letting TVR walk; a bottom feeder who held a slot that should have been filled by Checkers/Wolves emerging AHL talent this last season. 

TVR was solid in the playoff series against the Caps before injury,, and also solid during the regular season but completely disposable with the other talent this team had on D and that was before the emergence of Fluery. I wouldn't call him a "bottom feeder" that implies to me he's not good, but he is a bottom 2 D man and the Canes blue line is full of top 4 D men

Edited by Derailed75
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3 hours ago, raleighcaniac said:

Where  do you  come  up with these    bizarre thoughts   ??  Trading Pesce for   a a  better defenseman  ?  And Skjei   is gone  too ? To who  for who  ?Traded  for a   Keeper  when  so  many available via  free agency  ? You’re joking  right  ?

Post of the year! CFF I appreciate your opinions and admire your passion, but trading Pesce is a non-starter unless he brings back a true #1 goalie, affordable and with term. Plus, you could work on grammar, syntax and punctuation. Just sayin’.

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4 minutes ago, bluedevilcane said:

Plus, you could work on grammar, syntax and punctuation. Just sayin’.

We’ve been saying that for a year now.

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54 minutes ago, bluedevilcane said:

 Plus, you could work on grammar, syntax and punctuation. Just sayin’.

Does the committee offer English classes so those of us that are not gifted writers can continue on this board?   Asking for a friend !!

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3 minutes ago, snuffy72 said:

Does the committee offer English classes so those of us that are not gifted writers can continue on this board?   Asking for a friend !!

Not necessary to be a gifted writer. Just try your best. It was a joke for crying out loud. CFF spends way more time than I do following prospects, players on other teams, hockey history and strategy and more. When you can express opinions on who we should draft in the 3rd round, your passion for hockey is undeniable. But a little more effort to make those nuggets readable would help. Either way he is a valued contributor here.

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