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Offseason Talk 2020

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2 minutes ago, Canesfanforever said:

I do my research on players   that  come to play for my Canes .  I even know a few things on other players that might not ever dawn  a Canes jersey  .   

 

Of course there will be sensationalism   every where when it comes to stuff that is being reported .    This is why it is  important to weed out the fake news from the real   and see how many  actual reports are being said about one subject  with evidence   instead of buying what ever some  dork on the internet that  once heard from their uncles neighbors  girlfriends   hair dressers  dog   karate instructor !      

 

To think  of  all the people that mentioned the good stuff of a player    like for example with  Jesper Fast  ,  you have to "   Trip Tracey reference "  Dig in    and see what proof for such claim , and in Fast's   case he was voted in on 5 times in a row  to be the rangers players  player award winner .    That says a lot .  

 

And then you got reports of not so great  news  about certain players .     If it all does not match up  then go ahead  as planned .

Carolina did their research about Gunler  by asking  Jesper Sellgren  who has played with Noah  Gunler  about all the reports before  drafting  Gunler .  

They found out that not all of it  matched that was said in a negative  light .     

 

 

The difference in this post and the last, you are quoting actual sources versus fans. One is legit and the other is far from official or sensical. 

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Canesfanforever said: 

Carolina has  had some  headcases  before in the past  that  we as fans  could tell other teams  fans about  by warning them of what  they might  end up seeing .    

 

Skinner , Semin , Rutherford ,  Darling  ?  Do i need to go on ?

 

I sure wish you would not include Skinner as a head case.   He was a good guy that for whatever reason did not do well in our system.   That sure as heck does not make him a head case.  Just because a certain player doesn't play well on both ends of the ice does not warrant him being called a headcase.  And Rutherford.....I sure wish that ship would go ahead and sail.   He brought Hockey to NC.   Brought us the All Star Game.   Brought us a draft.   Built a team that brought us the Stanley Cup. Then he goes to Pittsburgh and wins heck I don't know how many cups.   And now he is in the Hall of Fame.  That is one hell of a head case.   Please give it a rest !!

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18 minutes ago, snuffy72 said:

Canesfanforever said: 

Carolina has  had some  headcases  before in the past  that  we as fans  could tell other teams  fans about  by warning them of what  they might  end up seeing .    

 

Skinner , Semin , Rutherford ,  Darling  ?  Do i need to go on ?

 

I sure wish you would not include Skinner as a head case.   He was a good guy that for whatever reason did not do well in our system.   That sure as heck does not make him a head case.  Just because a certain player doesn't play well on both ends of the ice does not warrant him being called a headcase.  And Rutherford.....I sure wish that ship would go ahead and sail.   He brought Hockey to NC.   Brought us the All Star Game.   Brought us a draft.   Built a team that brought us the Stanley Cup. Then he goes to Pittsburgh and wins heck I don't know how many cups.   And now he is in the Hall of Fame.  That is one hell of a head case.   Please give it a rest !!

For all the good Rutherford  did for the Canes  you can easily  count on one hand  ,  Karmanous  Jr.  is who brought the canes to Carolina   not  Rutherford .    Rutherford  did   do  things that indirectly  resulted in cup wins  but I would argue that  other people in charge had a hell of a  lot more to do with those cup wins than Rutherford  ever did . 

That ship  has sailed    and it hit a iceberg in pittsburgh lol.     

 

what was the first thing Brind'Amour wanted to do when he became the coach ?  Try and get rid of skinner  by any means  .     Canes  legend cliff  pu  and draft pick is what skinner  was worth .     Now they got  Staal having to play with him ? lmao   smh .     Sure skinner did not fit the scheme   and  some could say his development was  rushed  ,   But Skinner  was asked if he wanted to  spend a year in the ahl and he flat out told  the canes management  no.   I'm glad those days are behind the canes  so that the team and  fanbase can focus on  happier  days ahead !    Loving the  prospects the canes  got this year !   they look like  great   Brind'Amour guys ! 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Canesfanforever said:

ever some  dork on the internet that  once heard from their uncles neighbors  girlfriends   hair dressers  dog   karate instructor !      

???

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7 minutes ago, Canesfanforever said:

Uncultured .   I  Guess  you never heard  that phrase before . 

Nope, not used this way? Just trying to wade through things a bit to see how it applies in this case as I believe most of us on here get their reports virtually rather than in person, so do we all qualify? Or is omnipotence a singular trait?

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11 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

Nope, not used this way? Just trying to wade through things a bit to see how it applies in this case as I believe most of us on here get their reports virtually rather than in person, so do we all qualify? Or is omnipotence a singular trait?

Just  Annoyance   if any that follows  through .     It never ceases to amaze me . 

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1 hour ago, Canesfanforever said:

what was the first thing Brind'Amour wanted to do when he became the coach ?  Try and get rid of skinner  by any means  .     Canes  legend cliff  pu  and draft pick is what skinner  was worth .     Now they got  Staal having to play with him ? lmao   smh .     Sure skinner did not fit the scheme   and  some could say his development was  rushed  ,   But Skinner  was asked if he wanted to  spend a year in the ahl and he flat out told  the canes management  no.   I'm glad those days are behind the canes  so that the team and  fanbase can focus on  happier  days ahead !    Loving the  prospects the canes  got this year !   they look like  great   Brind'Amour guys ! 

So, this is what I'm referring to Cff. Let me preface this discussion by emphatically stating that for quite some time prior to Skinner's trade, I'd lost my initial zeal for him and was relieved to see him traded. Please reread that as you read through the rest of this.

 

Now, you appear (reread APPEAR), in response to Snuffy's comment, to label Skinner a "head case". How so, because he was not a Brind'Amour type player? Because we took what we could get (Pu or whatever) to trade him? Because he didn't want to go to the AHL? In my disdain for this player, I never considered him a head case any more that any player that reaches the NHL. Head strong maybe? Tended to cherry pick at the expense of defense maybe? Hard for fellow players to figure out maybe? Self assured, conceited, hard to coach maybe? But "head case" I'd not use in his case. I too am glad he's a Sabre, and wish him well, but I always laid his foibles on his training in his early formative years as a figure skater, ergo he developed as a gifted loner rather than a team player?

 

Now granted, your definition of "head case" might be different than mine, and anyone that doesn't conform to your criteria of a hockey player might fall into that category, but, as frustrated as I use to get with him, and it happened often towards the end, I'd never consider him that? JMHO

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19 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

So, this is what I'm referring to Cff. Let me preface this discussion by emphatically stating that for quite some time prior to Skinner's trade, I'd lost my initial zeal for him and was relieved to see him traded. Please reread that as you read through the rest of this.

 

Now, you appear (reread APPEAR), in response to Snuffy's comment, to label Skinner a "head case". How so, because he was not a Brind'Amour type player? Because we took what we could get (Pu or whatever) to trade him? Because he didn't want to go to the AHL? In my disdain for this player, I never considered him a head case any more that any player that reaches the NHL. Head strong maybe? Tended to cherry pick at the expense of defense maybe? Hard for fellow players to figure out maybe? Self assured, conceited, hard to coach maybe? But "head case" I'd not use in his case. I too am glad he's a Sabre, and wish him well, but I always laid his foibles on his training in his early formative years as a figure skater, ergo he developed as a gifted loner rather than a team player?

 

Now granted, your definition of "head case" might be different than mine, and anyone that doesn't conform to your criteria of a hockey player might fall into that category, but, as frustrated as I use to get with him, and it happened often towards the end, I'd never consider him that? JMHO

Fair enough .    I just use the phrase Head Case   in the sense that  if a player is unwilling to better themselves and be that team player  that would not only help themselves  but also the team   to as such .   Looking at skinner  from a coaching direction point of view   there is plenty that could of  been done to help both parties  ( in this  case the player and  team )   I could only imagine how  frustrating it is to see  someone with so much potential  just  sit comfortable in where they are  and  not give it a moments notice  of them improving on other aspects of their game .  

 

That to me  is what defines as a headcase .     

Edited by Canesfanforever

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11 hours ago, Canesfanforever said:

what was the first thing Brind'Amour wanted to do when he became the coach ?  Try and get rid of skinner  by any means  .     Canes  legend cliff  pu  and draft pick is what skinner  was worth .     Now they got  Staal having to play with him ? lmao   smh .     Sure skinner did not fit the scheme   and  some could say his development was  rushed  ,   But Skinner  was asked if he wanted to  spend a year in the ahl and he flat out told  the canes management  no.   I'm glad those days are behind the canes  so that the team and  fanbase can focus on  happier  days ahead !    Loving the  prospects the canes  got this year !   they look like  great   Brind'Amour guys ! 

 

 

Not a single word of this corroborates Skinner being a 'headcase'.

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39 minutes ago, gocanes0506 said:

signed three AHL players today:

 

Bracco from Toronto

Gust who was in Charlotte last year

Rempal from the Kings.  

Branco seems promising  ,   he is a short guy listed  at 5'9 on cap friendly   but he did  score a lot  and had a nice +/-  rating .    I know toronto wants to move towards bigger guys   but this could be  another  slip up from the leafs  , who knows.   last year he did not score much and was a -10 .   Anyone know what his  health status might be ? 

Edited by Canesfanforever

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2 hours ago, realmdrakkar said:

 

 

Not a single word of this corroborates Skinner being a 'headcase'.

That was my contention realm, but just like a famous line in  Shooter with Mark Wahlberg and Kate Mara, spoken by Ned Beatty, "The truth is what I say it is".Apparently that's how some think?

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3 hours ago, realmdrakkar said:

 

 

Not a single word of this corroborates Skinner being a 'headcase'.

 

25 minutes ago, KJUNKANE said:

That was my contention realm, but just like a famous line in  Shooter with Mark Wahlberg and Kate Mara, spoken by Ned Beatty, "The truth is what I say it is".Apparently that's how some think?

So  for a player that choses to not improve their game is not a head case to both of you ?  Gotcha ! 

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Skinner's problem was he took the Eric Staal approach to playing defense.  That doesn't make him a classic "head case".  But it does make him a non-fit for what Rod was trying to install in this team.

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2 hours ago, Canesfanforever said:

 

So  for a player that choses to not improve their game is not a head case to both of you ?  Gotcha ! 

Who the heck cares what Skinner was, or wasn't? He's not our problem, anymore.

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Skinner is a smart kid. He focused on what he did best and realized what he could get away with on D without have to work too hard or in his mind get killed. Since the organization let him get away with it, he kept doing it. Then he went to an even worse version of that same thing in Buffalo and did it again. After he razzled and dazzled with 40 goals in his contract year, he razzled and dazzled his way to an absurd 8 x 9, $72M contract complete with NMC. Then he promptly fell back to 14G 23 points and a Skinnerian -22, pumping his career +/- to an astounding -118. But did I mention the $72M? That is after taking $38.5M from us. Skinner has turned a particular set of skills into a lot of scratch without a lot of W's. 

 

He was fun to watch when he was on, so long as he had the puck in the O zone, but not seen a single playoff game yet....

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17 minutes ago, remkin said:

Skinner is a smart kid. He focused on what he did best and realized what he could get away with on D without have to work too hard or in his mind get killed. Since the organization let him get away with it, he kept doing it. Then he went to an even worse version of that same thing in Buffalo and did it again. After he razzled and dazzled with 40 goals in his contract year, he razzled and dazzled his way to an absurd 8 x 9, $72M contract complete with NMC. Then he promptly fell back to 14G 23 points and a Skinnerian -22, pumping his career +/- to an astounding -118. But did I mention the $72M? That is after taking $38.5M for us. Skinner has turned a particular set of skills into a lot of scratch without a lot of W's. 

 

He was fun to watch when he was on, so long as he had the puck in the O zone, but not seen a single playoff game yet....

It's unfortunate .   Some players are  cut from a different cloth  i guess .     He is  the Sabres problem now to deal with .   

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23 hours ago, KJUNKANE said:

So, this is what I'm referring to Cff. Let me preface this discussion by emphatically stating that for quite some time prior to Skinner's trade, I'd lost my initial zeal for him and was relieved to see him traded. Please reread that as you read through the rest of this.

 

Now, you appear (reread APPEAR), in response to Snuffy's comment, to label Skinner a "head case". How so, because he was not a Brind'Amour type player? Because we took what we could get (Pu or whatever) to trade him? Because he didn't want to go to the AHL? In my disdain for this player, I never considered him a head case any more that any player that reaches the NHL. Head strong maybe? Tended to cherry pick at the expense of defense maybe? Hard for fellow players to figure out maybe? Self assured, conceited, hard to coach maybe? But "head case" I'd not use in his case. I too am glad he's a Sabre, and wish him well, but I always laid his foibles on his training in his early formative years as a figure skater, ergo he developed as a gifted loner rather than a team player?

 

Now granted, your definition of "head case" might be different than mine, and anyone that doesn't conform to your criteria of a hockey player might fall into that category, but, as frustrated as I use to get with him, and it happened often towards the end, I'd never consider him that? JMHO

Not sure where you get he did not want to go to the AHL. Skinner came from Canadian juniors. He would have had to turn 20 and spend 2 post-draft years in juniors before we could have sent him to the A. IIRC, before that draft was even held, Rutherford said he expected to get a player that was ready to play in the NHL immediately. And Skinner won the Calder for crying out loud. Natural goal scorers will always get to the NHL straight away. Teams accept that there are other aspects of the game that will take time and hard work to master. Skinner never put in that work, and I wonder if all the concussions contributed to him never becoming the well rounded player he needed to be. If he was a head case, it was because he almost had his removed several times in the span of 2 seasons. Whatever the case turns out to be over 7 more years in Buffalo, it’s obvious that he had reached the point here where it was addition by subtraction when Rod had him shown out the door.

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Skinner had the unfortunate problem of being drafted by the Canes when they had some really bad teams.  I still don’t know what happened, but the second to last year he was here, he was a leader on the ice and played like a man on a mission to get the Canes into the playoffs.  He was scoring every night and playing some damn good hockey. There were many people on the boards that felt like he should be the next captain after E. Staal was traded.
 

Then the next year, the Canes made one of the dumbest decisions ever with the co-captain announcement after bringing in Williams—who every but Bill Peters and Francis knew shouldve immediately been named the captain.  Predictably, The season was aweful and Skinner had a terrible year—his play went backwards.  And then he was traded...or given away.  

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If I had a few bad concussions, I'd be a head case too.  And I do not mean that as some sort of joke.  I'm sincere in that to the outside world, I'd look like I'm acting weird due to increased personal caution.

 

I think professional contact sports are going to have to continue to deal with this concussion issue more seriously.   I expect continued changes to sports in the future due to this issue.

Edited by wxray1

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2 minutes ago, iceman11 said:

 

Then the next year, the Canes made one of the dumbest decisions ever with the co-captain announcement

 

The organization's decision made the organization look like a headcase.

 

I really don't know what "they" were thinking.  It was a damaging decision.

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Truthfully i never bought the Skinner didnt play D argument anyway. Sure he didn't play in our D zone which was what Roddy wants, and I'm fine with him being moved. But if I'm not mistaken he was in the top 5 in takeaways the year before the trade. He played D he just did it in thr neutral and O zones. Again he wasn't a fit here but he wasn't a headache, he wasn't a bad player, and he wasn't traded because he was a flop. He was traded because he didn't fit the scheme, this and nothing else.

The only bad thing is unlike most of the moves the committee made we did not get value out of it.

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