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BuckeyeCaniac

N&O article on greatest numbers in NC

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I guess I'm in the minority too re: Nascar, I don't consider them athletes at all and certainly not when you're compiling a list of the greatest people to wear a number. What's next? Curling?

I also agree that Brindy > Rivers at this point. It would be great if he could help his team win the Super Bowl some day, but until that point, no contest in my book.

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NASCAR drivers or not the entire list is flawed. They didn't even consider people who played minor league baseball in the state because it would be too "hard" to look the numbers up. That is shoddy journalism if I've ever heard of it.

Brind'Amour vs Rivers is debatable but it could have been helped by greater explanation as to why each of these guys or gals was picked. At least the online version could have gone through a little more explanation. If you read it all some of the entries there are players who all you get is a name and nothing more.

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This whole thing is confusing.. obviously they are bored at the N&O... they have seemingly two or three different catagories all mashed into one... you have guys like Micheal Jordan, Dale Earnhardt and others who are actually FROM north carolina. And then guys who play a sport in NC, Ron Francis, Philip Rivers, Julius Hodge etc etc and are from somewhere else. And then some of them dont even make sense like the guy from the Pittsburgh Pirates and the guy from the New Orleans Jazz? No explanation of the connection? Born in NC? Played in college in NC? Just a slideshow of pictures with no explanation...

I can understand how you could consider Nascar not a sport, but how in the world do you not consider them athletes? I'm not a huge Nascar fan, but I used to watch it, it takes amazing strength and conditioning to survive in that 200 degree car for 4 hours. These guys lose 10-15 pounds per race and have to worry about nutrition and hydration as much as any other athletes..

I agree that Brind'amour has better accolades then Rivers, but if you asked a lot of Raleigh natives who their favorite #17 is, I think by reflex most would say Rivers. I can also understand the ommision of minor league ball players.. yes it might not be fair, but how many of the players may only spend a game or two down at the NC teams level and then jump back up, and then how to you find a minor leaguer who either was a "career" minor leaguer who played to great success, or jumped up to the majors and had great success... you would have to search through literally millions of players... much easier to look at MLB players born in NC like Josh Hamilton and look at their success.

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... the guy from the New Orleans Jazz? No explanation of the connection? Born in NC? Played in college in NC? Just a slideshow of pictures with no explanation...

The guy from the Jazz is Pistol Pete Maravich, and he played at Broughton High School. That is why he's on the list, but yes an explanation as to why he's relevant would be nice.

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I can understand how you could consider Nascar not a sport, but how in the world do you not consider them athletes? I'm not a huge Nascar fan, but I used to watch it, it takes amazing strength and conditioning to survive in that 200 degree car for 4 hours. These guys lose 10-15 pounds per race and have to worry about nutrition and hydration as much as any other athletes..

Being able to do your job in high temperatures and losing some water weight while doing it, and handling a large piece of machinery does not make a sport, nor does it make you an athlete. Operating a backhoe or other heavy equipment in the hot sun all day will make you lose weight too, and it takes a lot of skill and training to do it. Is it a sport? Are they athletes? The reason NASCAR is considered a sport by it's fans is because thousands of people will go watch it. It is certainly a MotorSport, and I don't argue that the guy driving the cars have to be in shape to do their job, but so does a guy doing landscaping work.

Whether or not you want to call it a sport, I just don't think what they do is enough to put them in the same athletic categories as people who put numbers on their backs and play a traditional sport like hockey, football, baseball or basketball, and spend their entire life honing the skills of their sport.

If they were to have a NASCAR All Star game, what would they do at the skills competition? Yeah, that's what I thought.

Ok Jim, we're here for the gas pedal stomping competition, Dale Jr. is the favorite this year......

Or, Now it's time for the gear shifting competition, followed by the jumping off the car and doing a backflip competition. (actually, that guy IS an athlete to do that)

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I have a feeling that a few years down the road number 12 might be someone different.

I don't.

You list the top 5 athletes, regardless of number, in the state of North Carolina's history and Phil Ford will be on every one of them. Staal's great, but he's not that great.

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Being able to do your job in high temperatures and losing some water weight while doing it, and handling a large piece of machinery does not make a sport, nor does it make you an athlete. Operating a backhoe or other heavy equipment in the hot sun all day will make you lose weight too, and it takes a lot of skill and training to do it. Is it a sport? Are they athletes? The reason NASCAR is considered a sport by it's fans is because thousands of people will go watch it. It is certainly a MotorSport, and I don't argue that the guy driving the cars have to be in shape to do their job, but so does a guy doing landscaping work.

I love that logic. By your definition that also rules out the Tour de France (just some guys riding bikes) and marathon runners (just out for a jog down the street eh?) as sports or athletes. Doesnt make a lot of sense does it?

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In the printed paper they also listed people that also wore that number.

Also wore #1: Arturs Irbe, Hurricanes.

Also wore #2: Glen Wesley, Hurricanes.

#10: Ron Francis, Hurricanes.

Also wore #12: Eric Staal, Hurricanes.

Also wore #17: Rod Brind'Amour, Hurricanes.

Also wore #26: Erik Cole, Hurricanes.

Also wore #39: Doug Weight, Hurricanes.

Also wore #61: Cory Stillman, Hurricanes.

Also wore #77: Paul Coffey, Hurricanes (long past his prime).

Also wore #92: Jeff O'Neill, Hurricanes.

So there was more explaintion of the people and more people that wore the number.

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I love that logic. By your definition that also rules out the Tour de France (just some guys riding bikes) and marathon runners (just out for a jog down the street eh?) as sports or athletes. Doesnt make a lot of sense does it?

You missed the part about the large piece of machinery. There's an engine in there. That was my point. What other "sport" has an engine? Let's see, boat racing, motorcycle racing, airplane racing. These are all Motor Sports. If that makes it a sport by your definition then so be it. But it does not fit the same classification as sports where people power themselves around by their own 2 feet or hands. I really don't know how you got from my post that I thought Tour de France cyclists and Marathon runners would not be athletes since I never mentioned them.

Look, NASCAR drivers and other race car drivers do something nobody else can do, they get paid a lot of money, and a heck of a lot of people like to watch it. I'm just not one that likes it. If you like it great. I just don't know why NASCAR fans get their panties in a wad when someone tells them that car driving isn't just a sport, it is a Motor Sport. You can't rationalize to me that they are the same because of the ENGINE.

In my opinion, the N&O was wrong to include them in the article, and that is why I put it in my post. I knew I'd yank some chains and that is half the fun.

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Ok Jim, we're here for the gas pedal stomping competition, Dale Jr. is the favorite this year......

Or, Now it's time for the gear shifting competition, followed by the jumping off the car and doing a backflip competition. (actually, that guy IS an athlete to do that)

I don't care who you are, that's funny. :P

Now if I could just figure out how somebody has managed to equate a marathoner to a backhoe driver I'll be all set. :rolleyes:

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You missed the part about the large piece of machinery. There's an engine in there. That was my point. What other "sport" has an engine? Let's see, boat racing, motorcycle racing, airplane racing. These are all Motor Sports. If that makes it a sport by your definition then so be it. But it does not fit the same classification as sports where people power themselves around by their own 2 feet or hands. I really don't know how you got from my post that I thought Tour de France cyclists and Marathon runners would not be athletes since I never mentioned them.

Look, NASCAR drivers and other race car drivers do something nobody else can do, they get paid a lot of money, and a heck of a lot of people like to watch it. I'm just not one that likes it. If you like it great. I just don't know why NASCAR fans get their panties in a wad when someone tells them that car driving isn't just a sport, it is a Motor Sport. You can't rationalize to me that they are the same because of the ENGINE.

In my opinion, the N&O was wrong to include them in the article, and that is why I put it in my post. I knew I'd yank some chains and that is half the fun.

Hey Buckeye, not gonna get on you too bad, but let me ask these questions.

1. Have you ever driven a car without power steering??

2. Have you ever driven a car 4 hours with no air conditioning in 115-130 degree temps.

3. Have you even done the two combined?

Most of these guys have personal trainers (except Tony Stewart) he won't fit in his car soon. They lift weights, they train, they practice and keep themselves in top physical condition (for the most part.) You are fighting a car, driving within inches, not feet of other cars going up to 200 mph and they are bouncing all over the darn place. And that's just keeping it going straight....now let's talk turns and banked track. These guys keep the pedal buried for a good portion of the race. and the reflexes necessary to drive the cars. OMG. These guys reactions to avoid accidents are sometime on par with goalies, they have to make split second decisions....that cost tens of thousands of dollars. Up to a hundred thousand dollars.

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re: the whole "backhoe vs. Nascar" debate (hard to type that without laughing..btw) I would like to find a backhoe operator and put them in a Nascar race and put a Nascar driver on a backhoe and see what happens. Then we could ask them ...which is harder and requires better stamina? just my .02

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Hey Buckeye, not gonna get on you too bad, but let me ask these questions.

1. Have you ever driven a car without power steering??

2. Have you ever driven a car 4 hours with no air conditioning in 115-130 degree temps.

3. Have you even done the two combined?

Most of these guys have personal trainers (except Tony Stewart) he won't fit in his car soon. They lift weights, they train, they practice and keep themselves in top physical condition (for the most part.) You are fighting a car, driving within inches, not feet of other cars going up to 200 mph and they are bouncing all over the darn place. And that's just keeping it going straight....now let's talk turns and banked track. These guys keep the pedal buried for a good portion of the race. and the reflexes necessary to drive the cars. OMG. These guys reactions to avoid accidents are sometime on par with goalies, they have to make split second decisions....that cost tens of thousands of dollars. Up to a hundred thousand dollars.

You and NashCountyCane are missing my point completely. Yes, some or most of them have PT's, are in good shape etc. Driving a car like they do is hard. I get it. I could never do it. You still don't see the difference....the MOTOR. We can't have a discussion until you realize that all the other sports listed in the article are NOT MOTORSPORTS, but NASCAR is. You can argue all day whether or not they are "athletes" because they train and have a PT, but in the end, unless they start doing a Fred Flinstone impression and start powering the cars with their feet, they don't qualify to be on the same list as other "athletes".

Maybe they should do a list of "greatest motorsport driver to wear a certain #". Then, the Formula 1 people can come on and argue about how their drivers are better than NASCAR drivers etc. It would be a much more valid argument between motorsports.

My backhoe/heavy equipment operator and skills competition was meant to drive home my point, but that humor was lost on everyone but NancyNC. In my opinion, what they do, how hard it is to do etc., does not enter into the argument.

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If baseball players count as athletes (just think of how big CC Sabathia, Price Feilder, Cecil Feilder, David Wells, etc are), then NASCAR drivers count too.

Yeah, anybody can smack a ball out of a park at 400 feet that was pitched at them at 98 MPH. :P

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If baseball players count as athletes (just think of how big CC Sabathia, Price Feilder, Cecil Feilder, David Wells, etc are), then NASCAR drivers count too.

Ok, we have to add a new category. Players who can wear a C cup. Add Phil Mickelson to the list. :lol:

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You still don't see the difference....the MOTOR.

So the definition here is that any individual that performs their activity assisted by a machine should not be included in the list. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_machine' target="_blank">Simple machine[/post]) Then that would mean baseball (lever), hockey (lever), cycling (wheel and axle), tennis (lever ...and well, no numbers anyway) among others, are all out as well. Since we're going that far, we might as well rule out any person who uses a non-natural object to facilitate their activity. The only "pure" athletes then are runners. Who run barefoot. In the nude. And don't shave. QED, mountain gorillas are the only pure athletes, so the N&O should go to the NC Zoo and find out what numbers they wear.

Next you are going to say poker isn't a sport ;).

Seriously, if you stick to the definition of "athlete" then only those who participate in athletics (track and field) are eligible. If you chose the expanded definition, sportperson, then all people who participate in a sport are athletes.

Now, if you happen to think that NASCAR should be eliminated from the list because you find it to be boring to watch a bunch of cars make left turns for a few hours, ok then. You'd probably find a lot of people (like me) who think baseball should be taken of the list for much the same reasons (the "boring" part, not the "making a bunch of left turns" part). But I'll humor the N&O since I know there are others out there who disagree for some reason.

Man. How many days until the hockey season starts?

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So the definition here is that any individual that performs their activity assisted by a machine should not be included in the list. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_machine' target="_blank">Simple machine[/post]) Then that would mean baseball (lever), hockey (lever), cycling (wheel and axle), tennis (lever ...and well, no numbers anyway) among others, are all out as well. Since we're going that far, we might as well rule out any person who uses a non-natural object to facilitate their activity. The only "pure" athletes then are runners. Who run barefoot. In the nude. And don't shave. QED, mountain gorillas are the only pure athletes, so the N&O should go to the NC Zoo and find out what numbers they wear.

Next you are going to say poker isn't a sport ;).

Seriously, if you stick to the definition of "athlete" then only those who participate in athletics (track and field) are eligible. If you chose the expanded definition, sportperson, then all people who participate in a sport are athletes.

Now, if you happen to think that NASCAR should be eliminated from the list because you find it to be boring to watch a bunch of cars make left turns for a few hours, ok then. You'd probably find a lot of people (like me) who think baseball should be taken of the list for much the same reasons (the "boring" part, not the "making a bunch of left turns" part). But I'll humor the N&O since I know there are others out there who disagree for some reason.

Man. How many days until the hockey season starts?

You ran out of your medication, didn't you?

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