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The latest Santana update, from the Globe...

No contract talks have started on Santana

Link By Nick Cafardo, Globe Staff November 29, 07 05:39 PM

As of early tonight, Johan Santana's agent had not yet begun negotiating with any team regarding a contract extension for the Minnesota Twins' prized lefthanded starter, according to a major league source.

If contract discussions were underway, that would be a sign that a trade had been agreed to. Santana can be a free agent after next season, and securing him long term would seem to be critical for any team willing to part with top prospects and more.

The Red Sox appear to be heavily involved, according to the source. There's a lot of silence coming from Yawkey Way, always an indication something big is in the works. According to a couple of major league sources, the Sox would be willing to part with lefthander Jon Lester over Clay Buchholz and minor league pitcher Michael Bowden over minor league pitcher Justin Masterson. The Twins would take Coco Crisp to be their new center fielder instead of the untouchable Jacoby Ellsbury, but that means the Sox would have to kick in another significant prospect. While sources did not confirm a name, ESPN reported it might be shortstop Jed Lowrie.

The Twins are still trying to sort out who is willing to offer what. The Yankees are still very much in the hunt, with their talks centering around Melky Cabrera and Robinson Cano. The Angels appear to have the ability to make a deal quicker than anyone else because they have talented young players and an abundance of pitching after they acquired Jon Garland from the White Sox in exchange for former Red Sox shortstop Orlando Cabrera.

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The latest Santana update, from the Globe...

No contract talks have started on Santana

Link By Nick Cafardo, Globe Staff November 29, 07 05:39 PM

As of early tonight, Johan Santana's agent had not yet begun negotiating with any team regarding a contract extension for the Minnesota Twins' prized lefthanded starter, according to a major league source.

If contract discussions were underway, that would be a sign that a trade had been agreed to. Santana can be a free agent after next season, and securing him long term would seem to be critical for any team willing to part with top prospects and more.

The Red Sox appear to be heavily involved, according to the source. There's a lot of silence coming from Yawkey Way, always an indication something big is in the works. According to a couple of major league sources, the Sox would be willing to part with lefthander Jon Lester over Clay Buchholz and minor league pitcher Michael Bowden over minor league pitcher Justin Masterson. The Twins would take Coco Crisp to be their new center fielder instead of the untouchable Jacoby Ellsbury, but that means the Sox would have to kick in another significant prospect. While sources did not confirm a name, ESPN reported it might be shortstop Jed Lowrie.

The Twins are still trying to sort out who is willing to offer what. The Yankees are still very much in the hunt, with their talks centering around Melky Cabrera and Robinson Cano. The Angels appear to have the ability to make a deal quicker than anyone else because they have talented young players and an abundance of pitching after they acquired Jon Garland from the White Sox in exchange for former Red Sox shortstop Orlando Cabrera.

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The latest Santana update, from the Globe...

No contract talks have started on Santana

Link By Nick Cafardo, Globe Staff November 29, 07 05:39 PM

As of early tonight, Johan Santana's agent had not yet begun negotiating with any team regarding a contract extension for the Minnesota Twins' prized lefthanded starter, according to a major league source.

If contract discussions were underway, that would be a sign that a trade had been agreed to. Santana can be a free agent after next season, and securing him long term would seem to be critical for any team willing to part with top prospects and more.

The Red Sox appear to be heavily involved, according to the source. There's a lot of silence coming from Yawkey Way, always an indication something big is in the works. According to a couple of major league sources, the Sox would be willing to part with lefthander Jon Lester over Clay Buchholz and minor league pitcher Michael Bowden over minor league pitcher Justin Masterson. The Twins would take Coco Crisp to be their new center fielder instead of the untouchable Jacoby Ellsbury, but that means the Sox would have to kick in another significant prospect. While sources did not confirm a name, ESPN reported it might be shortstop Jed Lowrie.

The Twins are still trying to sort out who is willing to offer what. The Yankees are still very much in the hunt, with their talks centering around Melky Cabrera and Robinson Cano. The Angels appear to have the ability to make a deal quicker than anyone else because they have talented young players and an abundance of pitching after they acquired Jon Garland from the White Sox in exchange for former Red Sox shortstop Orlando Cabrera.

Man... if they were able to pull off the trade I described above... talk about one of your all-time jaw-droppers

unloading players you don't need and are looking to get rid of without giving up anything you'd miss... wow

And then the rotation next year would look like:

1. Beckett

2. Santana

3. Dice-K

4. Schilling

5. Buckholtz/Wakefield

:blink:

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Yankees closing in on a deal with Mark Lorreta. Great locker room guy and solid player (as least he was for the Red Sox).....good pick up for the Yanks if this happens. Wonder if they're thinking about 1st base for him cause last I checked, Cano had 2nd :o .....

http://mvn.com/mlb-yankees/2007/11/30/yank...h-mark-loretta/

And please tell me that our own Papelbon is not going to turn into a loose cannon with the press:

Papelbon likes idea of Santana trade

Email|Link By Steve Silva, Boston.com Staff November 30, 07 10:33 AM

Red Sox closer Jonathan Papelbon likes the idea of trading with the Twins and having Johan Santana on his team next season.

“I like it,” said Papelbon on sports radio WEEI’s Dennis and Callahan show this morning when he was asked about his thoughts on a possible trade that could send center fielder Coco Crisp, lefthander Jon Lester, shortstop prospect Jed Lowrie, and righthanded pitching prospect Justin Masterson to the Twins for Santana, Minnesota’s prized lefthanded ace.

“Here’s how you gotta look at it, it’s simple, you put together a team to try to win a championship every offseason right?” Papelbon said. “OK, if you can do that, and obtain a guy that could help you do that, which you know he can help do that, you do it. Yes, you do have a lot of faith in these young kids, but whoever may be in the equation as a young kid, you don’t know what they’re gonna do at a big-league level. You don’t know if they’re capable of being on a championship club. You know that with Santana.”

While Papelbon seems OK with sending teammates Jon Lester and Coco Crisp packing for Minnesota, he’s hesitant to part with rising star Jacoby Ellsbury.

“No, you keep him,” Papelbon said.

The All-Star closer also said he’d like to get a long-term contract done before the start of spring training.

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Yankees closing in on a deal with Mark Lorreta. Great locker room guy and solid player (as least he was for the Red Sox).....good pick up for the Yanks if this happens. Wonder if they're thinking about 1st base for him cause last I checked, Cano had 2nd :o .....

http://mvn.com/mlb-yankees/2007/11/30/yank...h-mark-loretta/

And please tell me that our own Papelbon is not going to turn into a loose cannon with the press:

Papelbon likes idea of Santana trade

Email|Link By Steve Silva, Boston.com Staff November 30, 07 10:33 AM

Red Sox closer Jonathan Papelbon likes the idea of trading with the Twins and having Johan Santana on his team next season.

“I like it,” said Papelbon on sports radio WEEI’s Dennis and Callahan show this morning when he was asked about his thoughts on a possible trade that could send center fielder Coco Crisp, lefthander Jon Lester, shortstop prospect Jed Lowrie, and righthanded pitching prospect Justin Masterson to the Twins for Santana, Minnesota’s prized lefthanded ace.

“Here’s how you gotta look at it, it’s simple, you put together a team to try to win a championship every offseason right?” Papelbon said. “OK, if you can do that, and obtain a guy that could help you do that, which you know he can help do that, you do it. Yes, you do have a lot of faith in these young kids, but whoever may be in the equation as a young kid, you don’t know what they’re gonna do at a big-league level. You don’t know if they’re capable of being on a championship club. You know that with Santana.”

While Papelbon seems OK with sending teammates Jon Lester and Coco Crisp packing for Minnesota, he’s hesitant to part with rising star Jacoby Ellsbury.

“No, you keep him,” Papelbon said.

The All-Star closer also said he’d like to get a long-term contract done before the start of spring training.

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LET THE TWINS KEEP SANTANA! They have already lost Hunter! Hunter, Santana, and Morneau are pretty much that team....they lose 2 of the 3 and they are done for lol.....

They're going to lose him at the end of the season anyway, might as well get some MLB's and some prospects for him. Plus that will open up a ton of cash to spend. I don't see that the Twins have much choice.

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LET THE TWINS KEEP SANTANA! They have already lost Hunter! Hunter, Santana, and Morneau are pretty much that team....they lose 2 of the 3 and they are done for lol.....

They're going to lose him at the end of the season anyway, might as well get some MLB's and some prospects for him. Plus that will open up a ton of cash to spend. I don't see that the Twins have much choice.

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Sorry, I haven't been on the boards as much lately. Been looking, but not too chatty. Finals week at the university, and I'm cramming all I can for the College of Education. FEAPS, ESOL, ESE, Sunshine State Standards, Goals 3, IEPs, Lesson Plans... grr.. all the political crap that goes with making a kid smile and understanding something.

Anyway...

Sox are NOT going to get Santana without giving up Ellsbury or Buchholz. Sorry, no way no how. Not with the Yankees offering Phil Hughes now (just released tonight).

I HATE giving up Phil Hughes. It's a catch 22 here. You trade Hughes to get Santana, and Hughes could be the next best thing, and Santana could get injured and be the next Pavano. If you don't trade Hughes for Santana (along with Melky and other prospects), Hughes doesn't become the Ace he's destined to be, the Sox get Johan, and he truly becomes the best in the game... again. Tough tough tough for Cashmoney and Steinys. I would rather give up Kennedy, Cano, and Alan Horne (and even Alberto Gonzalez) for Santana. Cano is one of the BEST 2nd baseman youngsters around. What, 25, great hitter, defensively good, and very patient hitter. BUT, finding 2nd basemen is easier than finding great SP. I like Kennedy, but I love Hughes and Joba. Anyway, I'll get back to more educational lingo and be back another time when the Yanks sign Loretta, Santana, Latroy Hawkins and Mahay. ;)

T

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LET THE TWINS KEEP SANTANA! They have already lost Hunter! Hunter, Santana, and Morneau are pretty much that team....they lose 2 of the 3 and they are done for lol.....

You forgot Joe Mauer.

Not an enviable position for the Twins. Not just the usual circumstances of being unable to sign their high-priced guy. They've got a new, mostly publicly funded park opening in '09. Can't imagine failing to keep Santana will help sell that one to the locals, no matter what the return.

From the Sox side, I'm going back and forth on this. A Beckett/Santana top of rotation would be damn near untouchable. And I don't want to fall into that trap of overrating your own prospects. Tough to pass up. And of course it keeps him away from the Yankees. On the other hand it would pretty much clean out the top of our farm system and seeing Lester go, if he's part of it, would be tough to swallow.

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You forgot Joe Mauer.

Not an enviable position for the Twins. Not just the usual circumstances of being unable to sign their high-priced guy. They've got a new, mostly publicly funded park opening in '09. Can't imagine failing to keep Santana will help sell that one to the locals, no matter what the return.

From the Sox side, I'm going back and forth on this. A Beckett/Santana top of rotation would be damn near untouchable. And I don't want to fall into that trap of overrating your own prospects. Tough to pass up. And of course it keeps him away from the Yankees. On the other hand it would pretty much clean out the top of our farm system and seeing Lester go, if he's part of it, would be tough to swallow.

I agree I do not want to see Lester go, especially after all he has been through

the Sox IMHO need another set up guy who was as good as Okajima more than

they need Santana, who has a lot of miles on his arm and is not that young

Maybe Lester showed me a lot last year bouncing back. I love the guy and

I want the Sox to have two good young pitchers like the Braves did back in the

day with Smoltz and Glavine.... Bulcholz and Letster, (beckett is not that young

like those two, I think beckett was awesome, its just an analagy)

btw can anyone trade my Dodgers some offense. please :lol:

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I say no to Santana. He's great, but last year was his worst in a while, he's logged a bunch of innings and he'd take too much to get. Lester was returning to form at the end of the year, Buchholz is amazing and Ellsubry is amazing. Lowrie looks to be the team's starting SS after either A) Lugo's horrid first half or B) After next season because he'd be ready by then. Masterson and Bowden are the top pitching prospects behind Lester and Buc so there's no point in trading them for Santana.

I honestly think the only reason the Sox are in the running is that in case the Yanks do land him, they want them to have no farm system left. Even if they got Santana, it'd be Santana and Wang and then a bunch of question marks and still no bullpen.

Also Santana costs too much after his extension. The Sox are supposed to be dropping payroll after this season, not increasing it. Getting Santana restricts them from going out and extending the good young players like Lowrie, Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youk, Paps, Delcarman, etc.

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I say no to Santana. He's great, but last year was his worst in a while, he's logged a bunch of innings and he'd take too much to get. Lester was returning to form at the end of the year, Buchholz is amazing and Ellsubry is amazing. Lowrie looks to be the team's starting SS after either A) Lugo's horrid first half or B) After next season because he'd be ready by then. Masterson and Bowden are the top pitching prospects behind Lester and Buc so there's no point in trading them for Santana.

I honestly think the only reason the Sox are in the running is that in case the Yanks do land him, they want them to have no farm system left. Even if they got Santana, it'd be Santana and Wang and then a bunch of question marks and still no bullpen.

Also Santana costs too much after his extension. The Sox are supposed to be dropping payroll after this season, not increasing it. Getting Santana restricts them from going out and extending the good young players like Lowrie, Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youk, Paps, Delcarman, etc.

The voice of reason ;)

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I say no to Santana. He's great, but last year was his worst in a while, he's logged a bunch of innings and he'd take too much to get. Lester was returning to form at the end of the year, Buchholz is amazing and Ellsubry is amazing. Lowrie looks to be the team's starting SS after either A) Lugo's horrid first half or B) After next season because he'd be ready by then. Masterson and Bowden are the top pitching prospects behind Lester and Buc so there's no point in trading them for Santana.

I honestly think the only reason the Sox are in the running is that in case the Yanks do land him, they want them to have no farm system left. Even if they got Santana, it'd be Santana and Wang and then a bunch of question marks and still no bullpen.

Also Santana costs too much after his extension. The Sox are supposed to be dropping payroll after this season, not increasing it. Getting Santana restricts them from going out and extending the good young players like Lowrie, Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youk, Paps, Delcarman, etc.

The voice of reason ;)

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Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez for Josh Beckett and Mike Lowell...

At the time, Hanley was your man. He was your key prospect. And Anibal was good in the making (I believe, didn't keep up with him)...

Josh Beckett, though young and cheap, was on the DL a couple of different times. And Mike Lowell was "Aging" and not worth what he was being paid. BoSox took the risk, and look what happened. An Ace and a WS MVP.

So, Santana for Lester, Crisp, etc... can work for both sides. Same as Yankees (though I wish it was like Kennedy, Melky, Horne, and maybe even Tabata) Santana's only 29 (which isn't old when I'm close to his age ;) ) and while he's pitched A LOT of innings, he'd still be better than previous bust Kevin Brown, Jeff Weaver, Carl Pavano, Randy Johnson, need I go on???

Note: I still wish Steinys and Cash would let the kids stay together. Trade for an experienced starter that could help them (like Jeff Suppan, Matt Morris, etc) trade Farnsworth, Igawa, something along that line..

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BoSox offer Ellsbury to Twins for Santana. But, pull Lester. They can either have 1 or the other. If I were Johan, I'd stay with the Twins all season, then goto the team I wanted (Yanks or BoSox) and make a deal then, keeping the prospects for the team, and getting the huge contract I wanted.

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BoSox offer Ellsbury to Twins for Santana. But, pull Lester. They can either have 1 or the other. If I were Johan, I'd stay with the Twins all season, then goto the team I wanted (Yanks or BoSox) and make a deal then, keeping the prospects for the team, and getting the huge contract I wanted.

Kinda sounds like a big game "bluff" to me. It would be hilarious if Santana stays in MN after all this.

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BoSox offer Ellsbury to Twins for Santana. But, pull Lester. They can either have 1 or the other. If I were Johan, I'd stay with the Twins all season, then goto the team I wanted (Yanks or BoSox) and make a deal then, keeping the prospects for the team, and getting the huge contract I wanted.

Kinda sounds like a big game "bluff" to me. It would be hilarious if Santana stays in MN after all this.

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I hope he does. Then, walks over to the Yanks (or Sox) and signs a huge contract instead of giving up so many prospects. He'd goto the Sox because he's having a custom home built here in Ft. Myers, and the Twins and Sox share the same city for Spring Training. :) But he's said he'd like to be a Yankee.

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I hope he does. Then, walks over to the Yanks (or Sox) and signs a huge contract instead of giving up so many prospects. He'd goto the Sox because he's having a custom home built here in Ft. Myers, and the Twins and Sox share the same city for Spring Training. :) But he's said he'd like to be a Yankee.

He'd be one heck of a trade deadline aquisition, of course, so to was Gagne :rolleyes:

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I hope he does. Then, walks over to the Yanks (or Sox) and signs a huge contract instead of giving up so many prospects. He'd goto the Sox because he's having a custom home built here in Ft. Myers, and the Twins and Sox share the same city for Spring Training. :) But he's said he'd like to be a Yankee.

He'd be one heck of a trade deadline aquisition, of course, so to was Gagne :rolleyes:

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He'd be one heck of a trade deadline aquisition, of course, so to was Gagne :rolleyes:

LOL

It'd be nice to shed some payroll, and trade some busts to other teams that might be better there (Farnsworth, Igawa..) With all the money flying to Posada, Arod, Mo, Abreu, possibly Johan... who knows when it'll end. At least were not owned by the Twins who don't spend anything, period. :)

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Interesting debate going on at one of the Sox boards I go to about Ellsbury, what kind of player he can be, and what would we really be giving up. I think I can sum it up as such: The comp you hear for him most often in the media is Johnny Damon, but Kenny Lofton is probably a better one. Damon has/had more power, while Ellsbury has a similar skill set to Lofton and both broke into the majors at a similar age (Ellsbury will be 24 by opening day). There is some thought Ellsbury could someday develop 10-15 hr power, but his speed and batting eye will always be his strengths. There's little doubt he'll be an everyday CFer, but it's too soon to declare him a star. Interestingly, the majority opinion there was that Ellsbury isn't good enough that he should be the reason to stop a trade for Santana.

I said earlier we don't want to fall into the trap of overrating our own prospects. At the same time, you don't want to fall into the other trap where, as soon as a prospect gets traded, you start harping on his flaws (we could call this "Jack Johnson Syndrome"). Would you do a package of Ellsbury plus one of Lester, Bowden, or Masterson? I certainly wouldn't do any more than that. I see it as roughly the equivalent of the Hanley/Anibal Sanchez package. As was said earlier, the Sox don't need Santana, and thus shouldn't be willing to pay out the wazoo for him.

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I tend to agree with you. If there isn't a need, then its not worth mortgaging your future.

You know who I think we do need....Jed Lowrie. Theo has a rather unsuccessful track record at filling this position so the best way to handle it is to develop from within. Maybe he'll be ready by the time we figure out how to get rid of Lugo.

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I tend to agree with you. If there isn't a need, then its not worth mortgaging your future.

You know who I think we do need....Jed Lowrie. Theo has a rather unsuccessful track record at filling this position so the best way to handle it is to develop from within. Maybe he'll be ready by the time we figure out how to get rid of Lugo.

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