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I say lets cancel the rest of training camp for starters and seal them up in bubble-wrap and a case that reads "Break glass in case of Regular Season Game"

LOL ^

Man we haven't even played a pre-season game and we're getting all banged up :huh: Losing a receiver (especially our #1 goto guy) would be devastating.... We are not deep @ that position.... Hopefully this isn't anything serious :(

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Jake said that he expects Smitty to be ready for "Game 1." I hope Jake had a trainer whispering into his ear before he made that comment, cuz we are going to need our dynamic air-threat to make the running-game work.

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Jake said that he expects Smitty to be ready for "Game 1." I hope Jake had a trainer whispering into his ear before he made that comment, cuz we are going to need our dynamic air-threat to make the running-game work.

They mentioned on Sportscenter.. no details, but they said only 2 weeks.. If he could be back for the 3rd preseason game (when the starters actually play more then 5 minutes) that would still probably give him a good warm up.

How sad is it we can take a 50% healthy team deep into the playoffs against the elite teams in the league.. could you imagine if we were EVER 100% healthy? We'd probably have a couple super bowl rings by now.

We just can't win for losing can we?

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They mentioned on Sportscenter.. no details, but they said only 2 weeks.. If he could be back for the 3rd preseason game (when the starters actually play more then 5 minutes) that would still probably give him a good warm up.

How sad is it we can take a 50% healthy team deep into the playoffs against the elite teams in the league.. could you imagine if we were EVER 100% healthy? We'd probably have a couple super bowl rings by now.

We just can't win for losing can we?

Not so fast my friend.. apparently he's back.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=ApNew3w8hf_b_HIVe_Jkh.U5nYcB?slug=ap-panthers-smith&prov=ap&type=lgns' target="_blank">http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=ApNe...p&type=lgns[/post]

I can't wait for Monday night.. even though it's only preseason, a Monday Night game on ESPN vs the Giants. Should be exciting atmosphere even if the on the field play is lackluster from the 3rd stringers.

Still too hot for Football, but it's cooled off the last couple of days. Should be a good year for the Panthers.

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Well, at least we know how to go out in a blaze of glory. Good thing we'll likely never see the 90% of the players that played 90% of the game.

It does worry me that when the Giants had their starters out and the Panthers had their starters out (see: first half of the first quarter), Delhomme spends his time fumbling the ball while getting sacked and the Giants just tore through our defense with their running game.

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... well, the Cardiac Cats almost pulled off another amazing comeback. It seemed like they started off real slow, which makes since, you don't want to risk your starters too much in the first preseason game. Then, the later in the game the better they got. Our defense did pretty well consistantly, except for a lot of "arm-tackle" attempts that didn't bring the ball carriers down. But, the thing that ended the chances of seeing overtime (and more game time for the guys on the outside looking in, come regular season) was the thing that gave New York a win... turnovers... lots of them. I was absolutely outraged with the blown "fumble" call, where Goodson's ball-carrying-hand hit the ground, causing the ball to come loose. There are two reasons why that was not a fumble: 1) the back of his hand (the hand on the arm carrying the ball) touched the ground after contact - so, he was down when that happened. 2) contact with the ground caused the ball to come loose, and the famous cliche with that situation is "the ground cannot cause a fumble." Unless they changed the rule, I don't understand how the Giants got possession - how the ref gave them the ball. Jon Gruden agreed with me, and for the same reasons.

But, other than that, the Panthers turned the ball over too many times (but still almost won, I might add). It was nice to see these backups get their time on the gridiron. Too bad they didn't get to play a little more tonight. Brown had moments of greatness mixed in. Goodson looked great, except for the fumbles and the gesture that cost 15 yards. Leman had a few nice hits and takedowns. McCown impressed me a little, too.

Oh, geez... I almost forgot the puntblock! That was cool to see a safty. And, now that I think about it... a two-point conversion thrown in the mix, too.

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Having your hand touch the ground isn't considered being "down". Players use their hand for balance all the time. And since that was the only body part on the ground at the time the ball came loose, it was a fumble. They looked it over, reviewed it, and made the right call.

Made the 2nd quarter unbelievably long as well. The 1st quarter was fine, pretty much what you expected from two run-first teams. The clock doesn't stop often, because everyone's running and there's no incomplete passes. Then the 2nd quarter came around and there's a commercial break every other play. It shouldn't take an hour to finish a 15-minute quarter.

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... well, the Cardiac Cats almost pulled off another amazing comeback. It seemed like they started off real slow, which makes since, you don't want to risk your starters too much in the first preseason game. Then, the later in the game the better they got. Our defense did pretty well consistantly, except for a lot of "arm-tackle" attempts that didn't bring the ball carriers down. But, the thing that ended the chances of seeing overtime (and more game time for the guys on the outside looking in, come regular season) was the thing that gave New York a win... turnovers... lots of them. I was absolutely outraged with the blown "fumble" call, where Goodson's ball-carrying-hand hit the ground, causing the ball to come loose. There are two reasons why that was not a fumble: 1) the back of his hand (the hand on the arm carrying the ball) touched the ground after contact - so, he was down when that happened. 2) contact with the ground caused the ball to come loose, and the famous cliche with that situation is "the ground cannot cause a fumble." Unless they changed the rule, I don't understand how the Giants got possession - how the ref gave them the ball. Jon Gruden agreed with me, and for the same reasons.

But, other than that, the Panthers turned the ball over too many times (but still almost won, I might add). It was nice to see these backups get their time on the gridiron. Too bad they didn't get to play a little more tonight. Brown had moments of greatness mixed in. Goodson looked great, except for the fumbles and the gesture that cost 15 yards. Leman had a few nice hits and takedowns. McCown impressed me a little, too.

Oh, geez... I almost forgot the puntblock! That was cool to see a safty. And, now that I think about it... a two-point conversion thrown in the mix, too.

I quit watching in the 3rd when it was 14-9... It looked like at that point neither team would score again.. the beginning of the third quarter bogged down and I lost interest. I'm kinda disappointed to see we came back and tied it, including a successful 2pt conversion (rare in the NFL), only to blow it again in the final seconds... How can you fumble and the other team scores at 0:00... do you not know how to take a knee? Especially when your only 18 yards from the endzone? Like frog said, good thing most of these guys will never play.

As far as Delhomme, he didn't play long enough to take a look at.. and didn't really get into a rythym. The sack/fumble was bad, but not ungodly.. I think we got the ball back on defense, so no harm no foul. McCowen looked ok I thought, the INT wasnt his fault, it was tipped.. good D on that one. Goodson actually looked really good.. our depth at RB is gonna be awesome once Stewart is back. NY's run game was killing us.. that's for sure. I don't know what this new defense scheme is.. but the last couple of years, as a smashmouth running team, we've also had decent run defense. Why are we not blitzing anymore? Not only does it break up passing, but you can catch a runner in the backfield too... of course if they pick it up it hurts you, but we got Peppers and Beason.. let those guys run wild.

Overall not too bad for the first week I guess.... 24-17 wouldnt be a bad loss to a playoff bound team like the Giants. Of course without all the turnovers we probably would have won, so that's not good. We'll see how next week goes.

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Having your hand touch the ground isn't considered being "down". Players use their hand for balance all the time.

As far as the worded rulebook goes, I don't know how it is written. But, based on watching football since the mid-1980's I saw it this way - I know what you are saying, but I think that the difference is that the ball was in the hand that touched the ground. I don't see why the back of someone's hand/wrist is so different than the forearm, elbow or shoulder... if any of those touch the ground, it is ruled down. That's why I think it was wrong to be called a fumble... it wasn't his free hand that touched the ground, it was part of his body that had possession of the ball. Also, it was ruled down by contact on the field, so the replay had to be undeniable to overturn the call. I don't think that it was black and white enough to be overturned... the ref made a judgement call that I don't agree with.

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I quit watching in the 3rd when it was 14-9... It looked like at that point neither team would score again.. the beginning of the third quarter bogged down and I lost interest. I'm kinda disappointed to see we came back and tied it, including a successful 2pt conversion (rare in the NFL), only to blow it again in the final seconds... How can you fumble and the other team scores at 0:00... do you not know how to take a knee? Especially when your only 18 yards from the endzone? Like frog said, good thing most of these guys will never play.

As far as Delhomme, he didn't play long enough to take a look at.. and didn't really get into a rythym. The sack/fumble was bad, but not ungodly.. I think we got the ball back on defense, so no harm no foul. McCowen looked ok I thought, the INT wasnt his fault, it was tipped.. good D on that one. Goodson actually looked really good.. our depth at RB is gonna be awesome once Stewart is back. NY's run game was killing us.. that's for sure. I don't know what this new defense scheme is.. but the last couple of years, as a smashmouth running team, we've also had decent run defense. Why are we not blitzing anymore? Not only does it break up passing, but you can catch a runner in the backfield too... of course if they pick it up it hurts you, but we got Peppers and Beason.. let those guys run wild.

Overall not too bad for the first week I guess.... 24-17 wouldnt be a bad loss to a playoff bound team like the Giants. Of course without all the turnovers we probably would have won, so that's not good. We'll see how next week goes.

I didn't think McCown looked too good, I think Moore was and is better. I'd rather us not be paying McCown 2.5 a year to do a job that Moore should be doing.

I think everyone was impressed with Goodson. He looked great minus the fumbles, but he can talk to Deangelo about that. Everett Brown also looked pretty good, but I'd stick with Brayton opposite Pep for now.

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I didn't think McCown looked too good, I think Moore was and is better. I'd rather us not be paying McCown 2.5 a year to do a job that Moore should be doing.

I think everyone was impressed with Goodson. He looked great minus the fumbles, but he can talk to Deangelo about that. Everett Brown also looked pretty good, but I'd stick with Brayton opposite Pep for now.

Moore looked great last night. Good accuracy, tight spirals, great catches by Dawson and King.

So week 2 was much better then week 1.. still some fumbles, but this time it was 4th string punt returners fumbling catches and not Delhomme and Williams.. Plus it was pouring down rain, gotta learn how to deal with that.

I think what irritated me the most was penalties on nearly every kick return that cost us field position. I don't know what there is to fix about that, since some refs will call a hold or a block in the back on every single return. Like they say "holding happens every play, it just doesnt always get called".

Our run defense is horrible.. man do we miss Kemoatu. Also, one thing I've noticed the last two weeks.. NY and Miami both keyed on our run and stopped us from doing anything with it. I know we are a run first team and other teams know that, but without the threat of Smith and Muhammed streaking down field.. they don't have to respect the play action and can stack 9 men in the box. Both Delhomme and Moore were completing their passes, but Williams, Goodson and Birmingham had no running room. De'angelo gave us a little peek at what he can do with that double spin, 3 tackle shedding TD run.

Our special teams is doing well, the blocked punt last week, Munnerlyn nearly taking a punt back to the house.. If not for the high snap, that would been an easy FG that tied the game. Just need to make sure those good returns aren't canceled by penalties.

I don't feel like Delhomme is playing long enough to get in a rhythm out there.. are they concerned about injuries? Or just they know he's the starter and let the other guys play. I guess the real competition is with Moore and McCowen for the backup spot. When Jake plays longer and we have Smith and Muhammed back we should have a much better offense going, and the defense will have to respect us.

All and all an improvement over last week, so that's good.

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Did anyone else loose the game broadcast with about 4 minutes left of the 4th? I did, so I pulled it up via the internet and had to watch the rest with the Miami commentators. They kept saying how the 2-3 top corners on their team missed the game, and how that made such an impact on the game... uh, yeah, well our top two recievers were out, too... ever heard of Muhs Muhammad and a little guy named Steve Smith, fellas? They might have helped a little...

Man, they really need to drill some tackling skills into our defense... so many times guys didn't wrap-up on the ball carrier and Carolina got burned as result - same as in the NYG game.

I couldn't believe how much Miami was showing in a preseason game... they are showing their cards way too early. Miami is a pretty good team, and seeing the Panthers struggle with so much, yet still compete to the end is a good sign... I don't put too much merit on winning a preseason game - to me it is about putting the back-ups in football situations that can't really be simulated. It is nice to get a win, of course, but I would rather see Matt Moore, Goodson, and J Leman do their thing.

Delhomme was ok, but not great by far. I am confident that Eric is right and once Muhs and Smitty are in the line-up, Jake will be more comfortable in his options. I hope Beason and Otah are 100%. That was scarry, seeing them go down. Dan Connor looked very good, and of course that Williams run was amazing! Brown had a few great rushes at the QBs.

Our special teams does look pretty good, except for the rookie mistake from our new longsnapper. I hope he uses that mistake as a learning tool (it isn't too serious because it IS preseason, but when games count he can't get away with stuff like that).

I didn't know that Dan Henning was in Miami - that was cool to see our old friend. Anyone know where Trgo ended up?

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I don't think there's anything to worry about with Otah. They were just putting a precautionary brace on his knee, despite the announcers making a huge deal about it.

I don't understand the love for Goodson. He's played well, yeah, but we've got our two running backs at the moment. He'd be a fine replacement if either one went down, but it's not like he's going to take the job away from either one.

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I don't think there's anything to worry about with Otah. They were just putting a precautionary brace on his knee, despite the announcers making a huge deal about it.

I don't understand the love for Goodson. He's played well, yeah, but we've got our two running backs at the moment. He'd be a fine replacement if either one went down, but it's not like he's going to take the job away from either one.

He did well in the Miami game as a kick returner in the first half. He will probably be on the team as a special teams/back up RB. Some of the other guys like Lee may not make the team since we do have plenty of depth already at RB. Birmingham did well, but behind Williams, Stewart and Goodson he may be gone also. Goodson had 2 returns for 50 yds.. not bad. Captain Munnerlyn also did good as the punt returner, nearly taking that one all the way. Since we plan on running 2 backs at all times, Stewart's not really a backup so having a third makes sense. Hopefully neither gets hurt though. I'd love for us not to need a backup.

Otah returned to the game but Beason didn't. Hopefully Beason is ok.

Looking at the stats (yards, accuracy and QB) rating, it looks like both Delhomme and McCowen did better then Moore, but watching him in person Moore seemed the most at ease in the pocket and completing his passes seemed effortless.. Delhomme seemed to struggle a little and McCowen had some bad pressure and a sack. Hopefully two more weeks will get this settled out.

Lets hope Smith, Stewart, Muhammed all return soon.

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Otah is fine, he came back and played later in the game and looked pretty good. I did get an ESPN alert this morning saying Beason would be out 4-6 weeks minimum. I couldn't find anything about it online, so take it for what it's worth.

I thought Delhomme looked better, and having Moose and Smitty back will greatly help him. As long as he doesn't try to force the ball to Smith all the time and Jarrett can step up and be a good 3rd receiver, I think we'll be fine there. As for the backup QB position, I've said it before and I'll say it again, Moore is doing a better job than McCown and eats up far less money which we will need if we want to acquire a DT. Deangelo is just sick, that touchdown was amazing. He should be fine, but J-Stew is starting to worry me. He's been out for quite a while now with the achilles injury, and from what I read some people think it might be a little more serious than it seems. And IceFrog, this is why I'm happy with how Goodson is performing, even though he's having trouble holding on to the ball, he provides depth if Stewarts injury is more serious than expected. The O-line is doing a great job, and as long as we can stay healthy there, along with Deangelo and hopefully Stewart, our running game should be lethal again.

My biggest concern is how our defense is falling apart with the injuries and just bad play in general. Kemo gone for the year, Beason potentially out for over a month and Davis is still banged up. Hurney needs to go out and find another DT, it's clear that no one else on the roster is going to do the job with Lewis. I read something about Hurney looking at a Browns DT that was a pro bowler at one point in Green Bay, so we'll see. Brown has been pretty good, I'm hoping Ron Meeks can work with him just like he worked with Freeny, another "undersized" DE, and turn him into a monster opposite Pep. If Hurney can find us another DT that can put the pressure on opposing QB's, I think we'll be fine. As for our LB's, I have faith that Dan Connor can step up and play for Beason until he's fully recovered, and once Davis starts playing our LB's should be fine. I hope we are very cautious with Beason as he is such a huge part of our D that it's not worth risking further injury to get him out a week sooner. The secondary needs to step it up. They haven't been anything special at all this preseason, and I really hope we see a good game out of them against Baltimore, so I'm not extremely worried about that unless they're still not performing once week 1 comes.

Overall, if we can get past these injuries and Hurney can find that DT before the regular season I'll feel a lot better about the team.

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Beason has a sprained knee, Charles Godfrey has a broken hand, Nate Salley is still out with "knee problems." With Godfrey injured, Hurney has acquired safety Kevin Kaesviharn (formerly with the Saints and Bengals). The Panthers released WR Jason Carter to make room on the roster.

Full story

Muhsin Muhammad and Steve Smith both practiced. Offensive lineman C.J. Davis and running back Jonathan Stewart worked out with strength and conditioning coach Jerry Simmons during the two-hour Monday practice session.

seal them up in bubble-wrap and a case that reads "Break glass in case of Regular Season Game"

...

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For what it's worth, Beason's agent think's he will be back in time for the regular season. I don't know if I would trust an agent's medical advice, but if he represents a large number of players he might at least have a vague idea the average time a guy will miss with this kind of injury.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AgtB...p&type=lgns

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I was just looking at the Panthers Yahoo page and noticed that Captain Munnerlyn, our rookie punt returner was our last pick this year in the 7th round. I know most rookie recievers and DBs play special teams, but this guy is really good for such a late round pick. If he can run a punt back 60+ yards and nearly score against a punt team where all 11 guys are keyed on catching him, imagine what he can do if he gets hold of an interception and not everyone is in a position to tackle him. This guy is gonna be a special addition to our secondary either later this year or next year.

Tonight's game against Baltimore will be another tough test for our run defense. We have to figure out how to stop people.. NY and Miami both ran all over us. Hopefully Jake will look better in this game too, he's got 3 quarters to get in rhythm and show us what he's got.

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Panthers go 0-4 in the pre-season, with Delhomme leading the way in general terribleness.

His total stats throughout the preseason:

23/34 - 67%

284 yards

71 yards a game

12 yards every completed pass

8 yards every attempted pass

4 sacks, 2 fumbles, 1 lost

0 TD, 0 INT

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That was the most pathetic half of football I have watched by Jake in a while, excluding that playoff game last yr. Get rid of that "Wild Cat" nonsense, if it ain't working, don't bother with it.

The defense, oh please, Peppers doesn't even look as if he wants to be out on the field. Do I need to continue on just the 1st half of the game?

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