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matt3311

ovechkin vs. crosby 2007

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I think I'm gonna have to go with Ovechkin...

Crosby gets too much credit for doing too little... now, before I get slaughtered for that... look at his stat totals... look at the number of assists he has. The vast majority of those are second assists, rather then first assists. He's not setting the plays up, he's just passing the puck to everybody, and then hovers around, maybe taking a shot or getting the puck back to make another pass. I get so irritated when I hear "Gretzkyish vision" because, well, Lets face it, Gretzky's "stop at the top of the circle and spin and pass" move had nothing to do with vision, it's just common sense. The far winger of course would be behind, as he had to slow down at the blue line, or be the third man playing high.

In any case... Ovechkin over Crosby 9 times out of 10. Basically, do you want a guy who is defensively responsible and isn't afraid to crash the net and set up one timers from beside the net, Or do you want a guy who simply throws the puck to everybody from everywhere, and then falls faster then Kiprusoff going into the butterfly every time he gets touched? At least Ovechkin will hit somebody, and hard. Ovechkin this year= Erik Cole last year... just with a touch less grit and more skill.

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[quote name=elchrisco}Crosby gets too much credit for doing too little... now' date=' before I get slaughtered for that... look at his stat totals... look at the number of assists he has. The vast majority of those are second assists, rather then first assists. He's not setting the plays up, he's just passing the puck to everybody, and then hovers around, maybe taking a shot or getting the puck back to make another pass. I get so irritated when I hear "Gretzkyish vision" because, well, Lets face it, Gretzky's "stop at the top of the circle and spin and pass" move had nothing to do with vision, it's just common sense. The far winger of course would be behind, as he had to slow down at the blue line, or be the third man playing high.

In any case... Ovechkin over Crosby 9 times out of 10. Basically, do you want a guy who is defensively responsible and isn't afraid to crash the net and set up one timers from beside the net, Or do you want a guy who simply throws the puck to everybody from everywhere, and then falls faster then Kiprusoff going into the butterfly every time he gets touched? At least Ovechkin will hit somebody, and hard. Ovechkin this year= Erik Cole last year... just with a touch less grit and more skill.[/quote]

this is obviously written by someone who doesn't understand hockey very well. i loath this second assist argument. everyone in the league get's credit for second assists (not just crosby). secondly, a lot of times, the second assist is the better assist. if there is a second assist...it is usually the pass that sets up the play. if this weren't the case the second assist wouldn't exist.

gretzky-esque vision does not mean hitting the trailing offensive player (not always the opposite winger...could be a defenceman. it's just the 3rd person in the offensive zone) anyone who ever really WATCHED gretzky knows what i'm talking about. if someone has 1,936 career assists (second is francis with 1,249 and played three more seasons....gretz also has the top 7 best assist seasons of all-time) he isn't just hitting the trailing man in the rush.

in hockey, a lot of times vision = "hockey intuition". it's not an x's and o's thing. it's a gift..gretz obviously had it, and sid apparently has it too. when a 19 year old wins the scoring title and the art ross (not yet....but it's inevitable) it's not just a coincidence. and it's definately not because of some "second assist" sham.

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I would just like to ask that you do not suggest I have limited understanding of the game of hockey. I AM entitled to my opinion, and I also feel that while you may disagree with me, you could have made your point without making assumptions about me. So please, for the sake of good taste and keeping these boards relatively clean, refrain from such statements.

And I HAVE watched numerous games featuring Gretzky... and I must say that if not for the incredible supporting cast, he would not have gathered as many points. Somebody by the name of Jarri Kurri kinda helped out with that.... later somebody by the name of Messier took over Kurri's role... Toss in Paul Coffey and you've got yourself an incredible team, even without Gretzky. I still do not and will not concede that Gretzky was a phenomenal player when we have guys today that are so much faster, bigger, stronger and more defensively sound then him.

IMO the only thing that kept Francis from putting up bigger numbers then Gretzky was Francis was responsable defensively. He not only made things happen in the offensive zone, he didn't take alot of risks and instead made sure his defensive play was solid first.

Pittsburgh would not have won their two stanley cups without Ron Francis... Edmonton won the cup again AFTER Gretzky got traded... what does that tell you?

Regardless... my pick is still Ovechkin. He's a lone Island of Brilliance on a team of sub-par NHLers. Kolzig is the true captain of that team.

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And I HAVE watched numerous games featuring Gretzky... and I must say that if not for the incredible supporting cast, he would not have gathered as many points. Somebody by the name of Jarri Kurri kinda helped out with that.... later somebody by the name of Messier took over Kurri's role... Toss in Paul Coffey and you've got yourself an incredible team, even without Gretzky.

I was always under the impression Messier centered the second line while Gretzky centered the first line. It's a fallacy that the two actually played together for any extended period of time.

I still do not and will not concede that Gretzky was a phenomenal player when we have guys today that are so much faster, bigger, stronger and more defensively sound then him.

You can't make this argument because it's in hind-sight. I'm sure if you took the Toronto Maple Leafs of the 1980s and faced them against the Montreal Canadiens of the 50s, the Leafs would probably win that game too. Richard would probably just punch someone out of frustration and Wendel Clark would probably get 3 goals. The game is always changes, but it take certain players to be the catalyst for that change. Gretzky was one of them, no one in today's NHL can be given the same title. Maybe Crosby if time dictates that.

IMO the only thing that kept Francis from putting up bigger numbers then Gretzky was Francis was responsable defensively. He not only made things happen in the offensive zone, he didn't take a lot of risks and instead made sure his defensive play was solid first.

Although I think plus minus is a useless statistic, Francis' +/- wasn't anything overly impressive. This whole argument is very circumstantial. What you're saying is...Francis compromised his offensive abilities for his defensive abilities. That's a tough sell. You can't make hypothetical stats a fact.

Pittsburgh would not have won their two stanley cups without Ron Francis... Edmonton won the cup again AFTER Gretzky got traded... what does that tell you?

They one one cup. You're making it sound like the Oiler dynasty could have existed without him.

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Give me Ovechkin anyday!!!!!!!! Yeah, Alex has Brashear but he rarely uses him since Alex can do his own hits and fighting.........and,I've never seen the officials helping put Alex's equipment on him........

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Give me Ovechkin anyday!!!!!!!! Yeah, Alex has Brashear but he rarely uses him since Alex can do his own hits and fighting.........and,I've never seen the officials helping put Alex's equipment on him........

People like to forget that Ovechkin cried off the ice in the World Junior Championships a couple years back because team Canada was "hitting him too much".

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yeah, cried OFF ICE. as in he didn't hold up the game running after the officials to whine and pout out that huge bottom lip of his to get attention. And Alex has learned to take care of business himself these days since every star can be picked as the guy to hit all night simply because of his name, it happens, and Alex may not like it but he handles it himself,,,,,maybe it will develop for Crosby too,in time.........

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yeah, cried OFF ICE. as in he didn't hold up the game running after the officials to whine and pout out that huge bottom lip of his to get attention. And Alex has learned to take care of business himself these days since every star can be picked as the guy to hit all night simply because of his name, it happens, and Alex may not like it but he handles it himself,,,,,maybe it will develop for Crosby too,in time.........

The day I see Crosby caught on camera literally crying because of the officiating, is the day I'll agree to your chin strap argument.

Other then that I'm not debating about this anymore, because I think Ovechkin is a special part of the game now and I don't enjoy attacking him like this.

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Well, I don't watch very many Pens games but even I have seen him following after the officials when he didn't get the call he wanted. Not saying he's the worst ever, but my opinion is that he does indeed whine ,,,,,,way too much, for his talent.

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Well, I don't watch very many Pens games but even I have seen him following after the officials when he didn't get the call he wanted. Not saying he's the worst ever, but my opinion is that he does indeed whine ,,,,,,way too much, for his talent.

Ovechkin can barely speak english.

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Well, I don't watch very many Pens games but even I have seen him following after the officials when he didn't get the call he wanted. Not saying he's the worst ever, but my opinion is that he does indeed whine ,,,,,,way too much, for his talent.

Ovechkin can barely speak english.

Alex's english is worlds better than last season, and he is a riot, I love that guy.

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