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caniaczrule

Justin Williams

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anyway just saying this in response to people seeing canes other than on the ice

i saw andrew ladd and cam ward once at a resturant cam was with his wife and i recognized her first actually

i turned around to my sister and said that lady looks like cody and then cam walked in and my sister recognized him i didnt believe her until she pushed me in front of him and i looked up and saw it was after i said i appologized for falling in front of him i asked my sister why she pushed me and she said because she wanted him to see her not me ( i was standing in front of her) too bad he def. saw me lol

andew ladd came in later on and he realized we knew who he was but we didnt say anything to him or cam they stopped and smiled at us on the way out =]

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stormrider, can you provide us with other examples of players you consider aggitators. And specify what fans from other fans bases you're referring too? Williams has a tendency of waving his stick above his waist, which clipped at least 3 different players in the playoffs last year. This is what got him his bad name in Montreal, not any aggitation. I've never found him to be a dirty player, I wouldn't even consider him an overly gritty player either.

Maybe he was an aggitator in Phillie, I don't know, I didn't follow him back then, I honestly thought he was going to be a bust. If he was an aggitator in Phillie.....blame that on Bobby Clarke and his desire to live in the shadows of the broadstreet bullies. Personally, after seeing his performance in Carolina, I've come to the conclusion that he was just misused in Phillie.

I'm just not seeing your point of view on this won

At the risk of being totally redundant, I'll go back to what I first posted which was "I will say he can be somewhat of a part-time agitator." I specifically and on separate occasions said he isn't a Tucker-type. I agree that a guy like Barnaby, is an agitator but a full-time one which is where I was making the distinction. So are Ruutu, Niemanen, Avery, Laperriere, etc. Many of them are dirty more than occasionally, especially Ruutu, but I don't think Williams is. He toes that line but doesn't cross it.

Fans from Philly, Jersey, Toronto, Dallas (from a couple of weeks ago), and the Islanders are examples I can think of off the top who made comments about him. Habs fans say he's dirty but that's because of the Koivu incident.

I'm not putting him in the same category as a player but I think he does some similar things to the part-time agitating than Shanahan does (or Gary Roberts perhaps). He will make sure goalies know he is going to be in the crease, runs them occasionally, gets a timely shove or face-wash in on a opponent, whacks the shin pads etc. Nothing technically dirty but enough to get under the skin of the opponent.

Again, I don't think there is anything wrong with it but my very simple point was that he has to understand that he is going to get a reaction at times and be prepared to throw down if need be. I'm not advocating that he get in tons of fights, especially as his all-around game has developed, but to make a visor defense for not fighting is totally lame - that was basically all I stated in my original comment. If you agitate someone will respond. I think he should either scale it back a bit or just accept the fact that guys will come at him, as Shanny did and does and be ready.

Last night was a perfect example of him stirring it up at the wrong time being unaware of the cause and effect of some of his actions. He foolishly charged Afanasenkov late in the game and seemed surprised that Hatcher gave him a dirty cross-check from behind. He flopped and looked for a call.

He is effective at what he does and he got lots of notoriety for agitating Brodeur to the point that he lost his cool and angrily buried his glove in Williams' face after he crashed and then ended up in his net. What he did in the playoffs gave him more of national stage but it was what he did all year and it seems to be a rep he is comfortable acknowledging.

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Have we like, beat this dead horse enough to lock this thread? I think many good points have been made but I'm not seeing anything really new and I sincerely hope that Mr Williams never visits the Board or saw his name or peeked in.

We are SO on the outside looking in with regard to these matters, and only the players really know what is going on between themselves on the ice and what "history" builds between them all. We can pontificate, but that's all it is. Everyone has their job, trash talk is part of sports, egos are part of every skilled professional and it's true that they take up actual physical space and sometimes those darned hockey rinks just don't have enough real estate to accomodate a collection of really LARGE egos all assembled on the ice in the same shift. WORLDS COLLIDE !!!!

Let's pack this luggage and load it under the bus, please! :?:

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I still don't agree with you stormrider...

I just don't see what you mean by part-time aggitator. It's about as weak as FMs visor argument. You either are or you aren't. That's like saying Thornton is a part time scorer because most of his points are assists.

And I also question some of the other players you named as aggitators. Gordie Howe is the epitome of an aggitator....start from there and then compare other players you think are aggitators.

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I still don't agree with you stormrider...

I just don't see what you mean by part-time aggitator. It's about as weak as FMs visor argument. You either are or you aren't. That's like saying Thornton is a part time scorer because most of his points are assists.

And I also question some of the other players you named as aggitators. Gordie Howe is the epitome of an aggitator....start from there and then compare other players you think are aggitators.

If you don't agree, the fine but your Thornton example is silly and you know it. Sorry, but I have to call a dive on that one.

If you don't agree the other guys are agitators then either we are using different definitions or we haven't seen the same games. By "part-time agitator" I simply meant Williams doesn't do it every game and that's not his predefined role. Guys like Sean Avery and Villie Niemenan are there do it night in and night out.

Some guys are part-time enforcers - they have more talent than guys like Boulerice and they drop the gloves as warranted but its not their primary role. Same with part-time agitators. Some games, against goalies like Huet and Brodeur, the game plan is obvious and Williams runs them constantly. You probably remember him frequently being fished out the net in the Habs series. Other games he goes about his business and doesn't do it. I don't know how more clearly to state it but I have the advantage of seeing every Canes game. This has probably run its course (feel free to PM about it or start a new thread) but I'll leave you with one more item.

Here's a good read on how he's perceived if you're interested and Lavi's comments or lack thereof are telling...

http://www.nhl.com/cupcrazy/2006/serieso/notebook060706.html

"Some observers, it seems, are more drawn to his abrasive style. In the second round, Williams was the recipient of New Jersey's wrath for his penchant to crash the crease of Martin Brodeur. Monday night, he was often in the face of Edmonton goalie Dwayne Roloson before the Oilers goalie left late in the third period.

As a result of all that negative attention, a reporter on Wednesday morning asked Carolina coach Peter Laviolette if Williams was entering the hallowed ground of super pest once so proudly occupied by legendary agitators Claude Lemieux and Esa Tikkanen"

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not true...other teams just hate jwill and they push him around and he pushes back but then is to scared to drop cuz he knows he will get thrown around like maxie did to him...
I suppose you would prefer JWill get 5 mins in the box every game and miss out on those 10 or however many GWG - leading us 10 more losses? Great logic there buddy.

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not true...other teams just hate jwill and they push him around and he pushes back but then is to scared to drop cuz he knows he will get thrown around like maxie did to him...
I suppose you would prefer JWill get 5 mins in the box every game and miss out on those 10 or however many GWG - leading us 10 more losses? Great logic there buddy.

thats not what i said at all...all i want is for him to stick up for him self everynow and then and not get pushed around like a little sissy baby that he is!!!!

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thats not what i said at all...all i want is for him to stick up for him self everynow and then and not get pushed around like a little sissy baby that he is!!!!

That's not his job. We have two guys on this team whose job is to handle the actual fights-Mike Commodore and Craig Adams. Williams's job is to get out there, get to the front, and score goals. He's not a fighter any more than Kevyn Adams or Erik Cole or Ray Whitney, nor is he stupid enough to fight when he knows he is going to get his *edit* handed to him. Think about the standard you are holding Williams to, and apply it to other players...say, Chad LaRose. What if we're playing against the Bruins, and LaRose is crashing the net? Would you then say that LaRose should fight Chara? Obviously not-that'd not only be a worthless risk of injury, it'd be an embarrassment to LaRose and the entire team. Same with Williams. He's not a fighter, and it's not worth risking losing him to a broken nose for two months just to prove that he's not a "sissy".

By the way, I'd like to see you fight some of these NHLers. I bet you'd run to your mommy.

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I agree with Gipper..

the 2 fighters are Mike Commodore and Craig Adams.

Have you ever noticed that Chad LaRose never gets near hitting someone on the boards. He just skates up to them and just like stands next to them like he is their friend. Its kind of strange to me..but I have noticed that every game. Anyone else notice that?

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am i getting paid to fight the players?? b/c if i am let me know so i can atleast try!!

thats not what i said at all...all i want is for him to stick up for him self everynow and then and not get pushed around like a little sissy baby that he is!!!!

That's not his job. We have two guys on this team whose job is to handle the actual fights-Mike Commodore and Craig Adams. Williams's job is to get out there, get to the front, and score goals. He's not a fighter any more than Kevyn Adams or Erik Cole or Ray Whitney, nor is he stupid enough to fight when he knows he is going to get his *edit* handed to him. Think about the standard you are holding Williams to, and apply it to other players...say, Chad LaRose. What if we're playing against the Bruins, and LaRose is crashing the net? Would you then say that LaRose should fight Chara? Obviously not-that'd not only be a worthless risk of injury, it'd be an embarrassment to LaRose and the entire team. Same with Williams. He's not a fighter, and it's not worth risking losing him to a broken nose for two months just to prove that he's not a "sissy".

By the way, I'd like to see you fight some of these NHLers. I bet you'd run to your mommy.

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am i getting paid to fight the players?? b/c if i am let me know so i can atleast try!!

Uh, he's not getting paid to fight, either. He's paid to score goals.

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An enforcer or fighter is not usually paid that well. Scorers are worth more. Most coaches pretty much forbid their top six scorers from fighting, because they can't afford the off-chance that they'll break a finger, jaw, orbital bone, etc. and not be able to fulfill their set role.

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I would much rather he put up offensive stats, definitely. We really need it right now. And we don't need either he or Whitney or Brindy taking any stupid or selfish penalties right now, because they're about the only line that seems able to find eachother at this time.

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I sit way too close to the ice. I can see Justin's lashes. I can see Brindy's locks peeping out from underneath his helmet. I can see Justin telling Tanabe "get your *edit* over there!" LOL! You are right. Theirs is my favorite line...our most powerful. I don't want to see them needlessly hurt for any reason.

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thats not what i said at all...all i want is for him to stick up for him self everynow and then and not get pushed around like a little sissy baby that he is!!!!

That's not his job. We have two guys on this team whose job is to handle the actual fights-Mike Commodore and Craig Adams. Williams's job is to get out there, get to the front, and score goals. He's not a fighter any more than Kevyn Adams or Erik Cole or Ray Whitney, nor is he stupid enough to fight when he knows he is going to get his *edit* handed to him. Think about the standard you are holding Williams to, and apply it to other players...say, Chad LaRose. What if we're playing against the Bruins, and LaRose is crashing the net? Would you then say that LaRose should fight Chara? Obviously not-that'd not only be a worthless risk of injury, it'd be an embarrassment to LaRose and the entire team. Same with Williams. He's not a fighter, and it's not worth risking losing him to a broken nose for two months just to prove that he's not a "sissy".

Amen to that.

Justin Williams may be pushed around a lot. But apparently he isn't corcerned about that because his first priority in the game is to have fun, and score goals to win. He knows that the point of hockey is goals, not fights, so why would he drop his gloves? Justin Williams is a star scorer, not fighter. And thats what we need him to be.

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I still don't agree with you stormrider...

I just don't see what you mean by part-time aggitator. It's about as weak as FMs visor argument. You either are or you aren't. That's like saying Thornton is a part time scorer because most of his points are assists.

And I also question some of the other players you named as aggitators. Gordie Howe is the epitome of an aggitator....start from there and then compare other players you think are aggitators.

If you don't agree, the fine but your Thornton example is silly and you know it. Sorry, but I have to call a dive on that one.

If you don't agree the other guys are agitators then either we are using different definitions or we haven't seen the same games. By "part-time agitator" I simply meant Williams doesn't do it every game and that's not his predefined role. Guys like Sean Avery and Villie Niemenan are there do it night in and night out.

Some guys are part-time enforcers - they have more talent than guys like Boulerice and they drop the gloves as warranted but its not their primary role. Same with part-time agitators. Some games, against goalies like Huet and Brodeur, the game plan is obvious and Williams runs them constantly. You probably remember him frequently being fished out the net in the Habs series. Other games he goes about his business and doesn't do it. I don't know how more clearly to state it but I have the advantage of seeing every Canes game. This has probably run its course (feel free to PM about it or start a new thread) but I'll leave you with one more item.

Here's a good read on how he's perceived if you're interested and Lavi's comments or lack thereof are telling...

http://www.nhl.com/cupcrazy/2006/serieso/notebook060706.html

"Some observers, it seems, are more drawn to his abrasive style. In the second round, Williams was the recipient of New Jersey's wrath for his penchant to crash the crease of Martin Brodeur. Monday night, he was often in the face of Edmonton goalie Dwayne Roloson before the Oilers goalie left late in the third period.

As a result of all that negative attention, a reporter on Wednesday morning asked Carolina coach Peter Laviolette if Williams was entering the hallowed ground of super pest once so proudly occupied by legendary agitators Claude Lemieux and Esa Tikkanen"

I'm not going to PM you on this, because this conversation doesn't seem to be annoying anyone...maybe FM.

A lot of players crash the net. Maybe I'm thinking of dirty players. Those are usually the players I find to be aggitators. I didn't watch the Car/NJ series so I don't know what Williams did. But I remember the series with the Habs, and I found myself hating Cole a lot more the I did Williams, and that's not just because he's a Habs killer.

I just don't agree with your "part-time" aggitator definition. My thornton analogy was trying to point out how ridiculous your 'part-time' analogy is. Half of the players in the NHL could be labelled "part-time" aggitators. Mario Lemieux was rumoured to bite his lip and squeeze out a drop of blood to draw the extra 2min for drawing blood back when he was a young player. During the Lemieux/Gretzky comparisons, Lemieux was constantly labelled the weasel, the wimp, cheapskate.....Ulf Samuelsson is an aggitator.

Williams, and Claude Lemieux are hardly a comparison. Maybe in years to come Williams will become that, I don't watch every Hurricanes game...they aren't my team, but I just don't see what you're claiming him to be. I could be wrong, I'm not being arrogant about this, I'm just sceptical right now....

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I like Justin Williams, but he shouldn't try to be a badass or whatever he tries to be sometimes. If your gonna play and talk tough, but never back anything up, I'd think other teams would stop taking you seriously.

He should stick to scoring goals and killing penalties.

I wouldn't say the Canes have any fighters on the team. Adams and Mike aren't fighters, they are players that occasionally try to fight, most of the time rather poorly.

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I like Justin Williams, but he shouldn't try to be a badass or whatever he tries to be sometimes. If your gonna play and talk tough, but never back anything up, I'd think other teams would stop taking you seriously.

He should stick to scoring goals and killing penalties.

I wouldn't say the Canes have any fighters on the team. Adams and Mike aren't fighters, they are players that occasionally try to fight, most of the time rather poorly.

Precisely and more importantly he is setting himself up as a target for the Goddards and Hatchers of the league who get frustrated and look to take it out on someone who irritates them.

You can't try and straddle that line like he does. Sometimes he gets off his game to agitate and other games he just plays without trying to get under other guys' skin. I agree that he has progressed to the point where he should just focus on his two-way play and leave the agitating to someone else.

I also agree the part-time enforcers for the Canes aren't really effective although Walker can hold his own.

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You two should get married. :shock::lol:

Yes, heaven help us if there is actually any detailed debate that takes place on a message board. Who'd have thunk it? :)

He was joking.....have a sense of humour

And stormrider.....

net crashing and "aggitating" play is up across the league. Few teams carry goons anymore under the new cap. Which leaves goalies a little bit vulnerable. It's not that Williams is pissing of more people, it's that the entire league has become a bit more chippy infront of the net. Why do you think Brodeur is complaining ever second week about something.

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You two should get married. :shock::lol:

Yes, heaven help us if there is actually any detailed debate that takes place on a message board. Who'd have thunk it? :)

He was joking.....have a sense of humour

And stormrider.....

net crashing and "aggitating" play is up across the league. Few teams carry goons anymore under the new cap. Which leaves goalies a little bit vulnerable. It's not that Williams is pissing of more people, it's that the entire league has become a bit more chippy infront of the net. Why do you think Brodeur is complaining ever second week about something.

So was I, didn't you see the :) that you like so much? :):)

Trust me, I'm well aware of what Williams does as well as league trends. I stick by my comments about him agitating part-time and that his antics go beyond just crashing the net. There is very little else to say on this topic.

Your views are duly noted but I have seen nearly every Canes game (as well as a great number of non-Canes games) and am very confident in my observations. I'm fine with the fact we aren't in agreement, why can't you be?

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