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cjslumber

Can we have our fifth round draft pick back?

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KernersvilleCaniac....

Listen buddy you attitude sucks so I'll respond to you the same way you've been responding to everyone else.

* For starters the amount of teams in strong contention this year is ridiculous and guess what the Carolina Hurricanes aren't one of them. Sure it is still possible for any team to win and emulate the '93 cinderella Habs (who really had no business winning the cup), but that doesn't mean team management is supposed to throw the farm away just to chase a pipe dream.

* Second, don't insult my knowledge of facts. Just because you watch or listen to hockey all the time doesn't automatically mean you understand how the managerial side of it is run. I failed to realise it was 2008 5th round pick and not a 2007, big deal. It makes no difference, because my main was that the Hurricanes don't know how to draft in the later rounds. Yes there are plenty of really great players drafted in the 5th round, but that's dependent on team scouting. Scouting reports are not disclosed information across the league. Teams who draft well in the later rounds do so because their amateur scouting staff is GOOD. The Hurricanes scouting staff has failed to draft anyone good in the later rounds to my knowledge in years? In fact if you look at their draft history, they don't seem to know how to draft anyone good outside North America. The team seems to have an affinity for drafting players from Karmanos' affiliated junior programs.

* Third the team isn't paying Carter that much money. He's only getting 1/4 of his contract from Carolina seeing that he was traded at the deadline. That amounts to .500 million. He's not getting big bucks.

*Carter appears to have been acquired for physical presence in games it is needed. Look at the games he's played in so far Atl, Ott, Ott, Pit, Atl. With the exception of Pit 4 out of the 5 games were against teams that play the body hard and possibly dirty (especially Atl). The games he missed were Was and NYR. Cane's coach staff probably felt that Carter's presence was not necessary during those games. This is not uncommon. The Leafs traded for Yanic Perreault and he currently plays less then 10 minutes a game simply because he's only needed to win key faceoffs. My guess is that Carter will become valuable in remaining games against Atl, Tor, and Fla that tend to get physical and ugly.

* In the end you could possibly be right, Carter might turn out to be a wrong managerial move. But these mistakes happen to everyone on every team and certainly doesn't make you the barer of good judgement.

-Montreal signed Theodore for 6 million.

-Boston traded Thornton away for peanuts.

-Colorado traded for Theodore and his fat contract.

-Toronto took a gamble on concussion Lindros.

-Florida took a gamble on Bertuzzi that failed as well and then gave him away for practically nothing.

The list goes on and on. In the grand scheme of bad moves I hardly qualify Carolina's acquisition of Anson Carter as one of them. So please tone the anger down and give the bitterness a rest.

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I don't see any anger in the post. No cursing, no name calling. If I disagree with your point does that make me angry. I'm not blaming Carter for the inconsistency that the team has experienced this year. My post orginally was when Carter didn't have a hit,shot,fight, killed a penalty or obviously no goal for the Atlanta game. Whitney and Cole were both out for that game and he logged 7 minutes in a game at that time was the biggest of the year. If Carter is here for depth, scoring and physical play when we have injuries then that game I wonder where he was at. Then the next two games he's a healthy scratch when we get some players back. I just don't see his contribution. Like I've said before I hope I'm wrong I want every move the front office makes to help the team win. But if your not even dressing out and we're paying you 500K for 6 or 7 games do you think that's well deserved paycheck. Maybe your angry because I'm not agreeing with everything that you say.

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I'm not angry at all...

It just gets frustrating explaining the same thing more then once. Depth does not mean Carter will produce like Cole or Whitney when they are out of the lineup. Depth does not always mean scoring. In this particular case it means additional muscle, more then likely on the checking line. Checking lines aren't meant to score, they're meant to wear down the opposing teams top line. This is something that doesn't show up on statistics.

Examples of players who do this would be Peca on the Leafs, and Bonk on the Habs. Of course I'm assuming that the Hurricanes' coaching staff is using Carter on the 3rd line. I can't see them trying to use him as a second line RW over guys like Williams and Walker.

Why Carter only played 9:00 in the 1-3 loss to Atlanta I don't know? coaching strategies can always change mid-game. However the game against Atlanta on Feb 24 he registered 19:00 min.

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Good couple of posts Hoyle, great info. I don't think Kernersville understands the business aspects of the game. I will assume that he figures if Carter isn't on the ice 26mins a night then he must suck and it was a wasted trade.

From a business perspective we made a very low risk move (unlike the Preds and Floppa). I am sure the reason Carter got so many minutes initially and not so much now was Lavi seeing what he can do in game day scenarios. Ice time was reduced while trying to figure out where he fits best. Carter is a top 3 line forward, you don't put him on the 4th line and in our case why would you - we have a great 4th line.

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A fifth round pick is chump change for a guy with goal scoring ability even if it is merely for depth and injury insurance.

I pay insurance premiums with the knowledge that I may never need the coverage but when I do need it, it seems like a bargain when the unexpected happens.

It's the same thing with Carter. He was a stop-gap measure for Cole's absence, unlike Recchi who was a replacement for Cole. It really is a non-issue and still worth the insurance factor even if Carter ends up in the press box all year. A 5th rounder is disposable.

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A fifth round pick is chump change for a guy with goal scoring ability even if it is merely for depth and injury insurance.

I pay insurance premiums with the knowledge that I may never need the coverage but when I do need it, it seems like a bargain when the unexpected happens.

It's the same thing with Carter. He was a stop-gap measure for Cole's absence, unlike Recchi who was a replacement for Cole. It really is a non-issue and still worth the insurance factor even if Carter ends up in the press box all year. A 5th rounder is disposable.

Great post. Was trying to think of a way to explain this, but couldn't.

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Easy man!!!! This guy just got traded here...its not like he knows the system or what we try to do. To be honest with you, Id rather have a experienced NHLer in there who has been a proven goal scorer in the past rather than some of the guys we have in the lineup(ie...Letowski, who in my opinion has done nothing for us all season). I wonder if Carter was a white player if you would have the same opinion. Please don't hate on him just because he happens to be black......I would love to trade Letowski back to Columbus and get that 5th round pick back...but even Columbus doesnt want him back!!!!!!!

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Side Note:

Please, do NOT turn this into a racial issue, or even hint at it, or this thread or membership(s) will be on the line.

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Side Note:

Please, do NOT turn this into a racial issue, or even hint at it, or this thread or membership(s) will be on the line.

there are those that think that way, i am not one of them!! When I look at Anson I see nothing but a Hockey Player!!

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Easy man!!!! This guy just got traded here...its not like he knows the system or what we try to do. To be honest with you, Id rather have a experienced NHLer in there who has been a proven goal scorer in the past rather than some of the guys we have in the lineup(ie...Letowski, who in my opinion has done nothing for us all season). I wonder if Carter was a white player if you would have the same opinion. Please don't hate on him just because he happens to be black......I would love to trade Letowski back to Columbus and get that 5th round pick back...but even Columbus doesnt want him back!!!!!!!

Your a tool. Period.

Letowksi is a 4th liner, Carter is not. Therefore, Letowski plays and Carter sits until an injury to our Top 9.

Until you understand each players role on the team, I would keep my mouth shut if I were you, cause you just made yourself look like a complete idiot.

And lets leave the racialness out of this cause it has nothing to do with it.

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i agree, I couldn't have said it better myself. He is fulfilling the role for the price we paid. enough said.

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And lets leave the racialness out of this cause it has nothing to do with it.

That is correct, & Whaler has already posted a warning about it in this thread. Racists remarks will get people banned from here. Period. Leave the colour of the players out of it, please & thank you.

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I guess I should give up on my point I agree with everyone. All of you have convinced me he has made a great impact so far. I remember he actually scared me one time during warm ups with his dreads flying around. But since his been eating nachos in the press box I guess he hasn't contributed the past two nights. I just need to give him 13 games more to adjust so he can go adjust to another team next year.

Last time I'm posting on this subject but to the guy with the nice Montreal Teddy Bear let me bow down to you first of all because you're from Canada and I forget you'll know everything about hockey. But you can't have your cake and eat it too. If you say he's no whitney or cole which I agree. But you also say he brings a physical presence to the team. But you also say he can't play on the fourth line. Isn't our fourth line our most physical line. Where does a player like this fit on any team? Obviously nobody has found a great deal of worth in him after 10 stops. They only thing we agree on is that he probably was brought here for depth but I didn't figure he wouldn't contribute at all on or off the ice.

Here is your list of late round picks that have been good players. Don't ever underestimate the power of a draft pick.

Player Pick Year Drafted By

Dan McGillis 238th 1992 Detroit

Pavol Demitra 227th 1993 Ottawa

Vladimir Konstantinov * 221st 1989 Detroit

Anson Carter 220th 1992 Quebec

Johan Hedberg 218th 1994 Philadelphia

Dave Taylor * 210th 1975 Los Angeles

Dominik Hasek 207th 1983 Chicago

Arturs Irbe 196th 1989 Minnesota

Vladimir Malakhov 191st 1989 NY Islanders

Trevor Letowski 174th 1996 Phoenix

Luc Robitaille 171st 1984 Los Angeles

Roman Cechmanek 171st 2000 Philadelphia

Theoren Fleury 166th 1987 Calgary

Peter Bondra 156th 1990 Washington

Doug Gilmour * 134th 1982 St. Louis

Daniel Alfredsson 133rd 1994 Ottawa

Steve Larmer * 120th 1980 Chicago

Brett Hull 117th 1984 Calgary

Pavel Bure 113th 1989 Vancouver

Hurricanes Currently Playing either undrafted or late rouds

Trevor Letwoski Phoenix 1996 (6-174-7)

Scott Walker Vancouver 1993 (4-124-5)

Craig Adams Hartford 1996 (9-223-9)

Chad Larose Undrafted

Anson Carter Quebec 1992(10-220)

Dennis Seidenberg Philadelphia 2001 (6-172)

Brett Hedican St. Louis 1988 (10-198-9)

John Grahame Boston 1994 (7-229-9)

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But you also say he can't play on the fourth line. Isn't our fourth line our most physical line. Where does a player like this fit on any team?

Craig Adams, Chad LaRose, and Trevor Letowski? Do you really think these guys fit in as our most physical line. Not going to say what other teams 4th line is, but as for the canes 4th line its called the Energy Line. Craig, Chad, and Trevor are put out on the ice to wreak havoc on other teams.

For instance: Against the LA game. Lavi told Craig and Chad that he is playing them against Frolov and all he wants them to do, is shut him down. He then put them up against Jagr the very next game and told them to do the samething. Which they succeeded both nights.

However, their not a physical presence. Lavi described these guys perfectly when he called them 'pit bulls'. They bite at your ankles and drive you crazy. Their in your face and don't give you much room to skate. That is our 4th lines job. And our 4th line is not physical.

As far as where Carter fits in on this team. He fits in on the Top 9 if one of our Top 9 are injured. Guess you missed or weren't paying attention when Forslund discussed this pretty well during the Capitals game Friday. Went into great detail about why Carter is being scratched.

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Carter is not the type of player that LaRose and Adams are... Carter is a floater, stand in front of the net and go all out offense. He wouldn't fit in and would ruin the chemistry and tenacity that our fourth line plays with. pretty simple concept.

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:)+-->

(Larose!!:))

I think Carter needs time to adjust. 8)

simple. i don't think he's a dud per se, but should anyone get injured (knock on wood) he's ready to go. I feel for the guy, but when something is going good, don't mess with it...mind you...the team doesn't seem to be doing good as of late...

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Well, tonight Bill Guerin, after 6 games with the sharks finally got on the scoreboard. Pointless in 6 games on a line with Marleau. 1st rd pick, plus 2 players...he had a 4 pt night. 8th hat trick. Not bad. I'm sure that shut up some of the haters on the Sharks message board. I just wish there was room on the 'Canes for Carter.

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Maybe this will help. Article about Carter.

Some excerpts:

but with all of their normal top-nine forwards healthy, coach Peter Laviolette dropped Carter from the lineup Friday rather than break up his penalty-killing fourth line.
"I look at it as a positive. It was a difficult transition coming in here not really knowing the guys. This gives me a chance to get to know every one, get to know the practices and watch a few games to get a sense of what we're trying to do on the ice."

Full article here:

http://www.newsobserver.com/796/story/553179.html

Also has a little thing about Gleason and Kowalski.

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Maybe this will help. Article about Carter.

I was glad to read that AC is handling everything with a positive attitude.

However, I don't think this will sway the thread starter. But he is the same guy who is convinced the Canes converted Tanabe to defense from forward, which is untrue, so there may be no help for him. :wink:

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You might want to research your data Tanabe played forward for the first year in half until they moved him to defense. I'll pull some information to make sure I'm correct.

I've seen more loyality to guy in Carter who's been here 3 weeks more than guy's that have been here 4 or 5 years. Again I hope I'm wrong and he contributes to this team.

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I haven't seen any arguments in regard to all the late round picks that have been good NHL Players. But again I don't know what I'm talking about.

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You might want to research your data Tanabe played forward for the first year in half until they moved him to defense. I'll pull some information to make sure I'm correct.

I've seen more loyality to guy in Carter who's been here 3 weeks more than guy's that have been here 4 or 5 years. Again I hope I'm wrong and he contributes to this team.

The Canes did not convert Tanabe to Defense. Tanabe's position has been Defense since the day he was drafted in 1999.

# Drafted By Player Position

16 Carolina Dave Tanabe D

Link:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl1999e.html

A fifth rounder in 2008, is nothing. Now if we gave up a first or second rounder then I'll say you have something to beatch about, but its a freakin 5th round in 2008 not even a 2007 pick, but 2008 that's another year from now. Carter is DEPTH and giving up a 5th round in 2008 is nothing.

When were in the playoffs and one of our Top 9 get injured and Carter is back on the ice. You will see why getting him for a 5th round was a good trade. Cause he will be much better in a playoff game then Aucoin, Gove, or Bayda. That 5th round won't do you a damn bit of good if a Top 9 forward goes down in the PO.

Its called INSURANCE.

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You might want to research your data Tanabe played forward for the first year in half until they moved him to defense. I'll pull some information to make sure I'm correct.

To be clear you stated Tanabe "played forward all of his life until our organazation moved him to a defenseman" and tried to arrogantly point out that "newbies" don't know that. Well, it is wrong and I don't need to research it to tell you that definitely.

He played defense coming up and was on the blueline for Wisconsin where he played in college. He was drafted as a D-man and that was where he played. Maurice liked his offensive flair and occasionally used him on spot duty as a forward. But he was not a forward who was converted to D by the Canes. You might want to brush up on your apologies to the "newbies" you trashed. :wink:

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I haven't seen any arguments in regard to all the late round picks that have been good NHL Players. But again I don't know what I'm talking about.

Getting a high end contributor in the 5th round or later is rare, as evidenced by the fact your list goes back 30+ years. Nobody is arguing that you can sometimes find a diamond in the rough but you can't count on it. So your choice is trade for added depth now or hang on to the 5th rounder in 2008 with long odds that you'll get a skilled player. It's an easy choice.

More importantly, when the Canes have converted lower round picks into little more than AHL depth and in the era of free agency, a 5th rounder isn't considered big currency.

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