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IceFrog999

So we lost Babchuk to Russia, right?

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I already addressed his shots hitting the glass. I also said that he should be given a chance to improve those shots.

And what do you mean "Since the Albany situation"? The Albany situation was the only thing Babchuk's done wrong this year, and like Gipper said, he had every right to be angry. Probably could have handled it better, but you're throwing him under a bus because of his play off the ice and ignoring his play on the ice.

I am not throwing him under the bus....honestly its not like I am say "yes, lets get rid of him for a bag of pucks"

What I am saying is unless he has STELLER on ice performance it is not worth trying to fix an attitude problem. It's not like we are the only team who have experienced his attitude either.

I don't understand why you think he should have been allowed to be angry at this. He had a two-way contract and was the easiest to send to Albany without having to put anyone on waivers. If Anton didn't understand his contract when he signed it, thats not really JR's fault and JR did what was best for the team during that time.

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I would think that being in Albany would be a perfect time to work on his accuracy and heck, they made it to the playoffs. yeah, it's a pay cut, but damn... gimme enough money to pay my bills, upkeep equipment and have some extra for downtime and I would play hockey for anybody. I would love to have a job doing something I enjoy... when will some of these athletes learn to do the same. They have a job most only dream of....learn to love it and take the attitude somewhere else. Play the game and have fun or the career will be worthless and I sure won't respect any player like that.

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I already addressed his shots hitting the glass. I also said that he should be given a chance to improve those shots.

And what do you mean "Since the Albany situation"? The Albany situation was the only thing Babchuk's done wrong this year, and like Gipper said, he had every right to be angry. Probably could have handled it better, but you're throwing him under a bus because of his play off the ice and ignoring his play on the ice.

I am not throwing him under the bus....honestly its not like I am say "yes, lets get rid of him for a bag of pucks"

What I am saying is unless he has STELLER on ice performance it is not worth trying to fix an attitude problem. It's not like we are the only team who have experienced his attitude either.

I don't understand why you think he should have been allowed to be angry at this. He had a two-way contract and was the easiest to send to Albany without having to put anyone on waivers. If Anton didn't understand his contract when he signed it, thats not really JR's fault and JR did what was best for the team during that time.

BINGO. If I remember correctly, at the time the only players we could send down without placing anyone on waivers and potentially losing them were Babchuk and Ladd. At the time everyone was coming back from their injuries and we had far too many players on the roster. JR knew they needed to send someone down and thought it would be beneficial to Babchuk to actually be playing instead of being a constant healthy scratch.

As for him being in Russia now, good riddance. He didn't understand the situation that he and the team were in and was going to whine to have someone else sent down when it wouldn't have made any sense to do so. I am sure that if he had just gone along with it, he would be playing here next season.

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Like I said, he could have handled it better. Should he have just gone to the AHL? Yes. I'm not denying that. I am saying that his play did not warrent a send down at the time.

http://hurricanes.nhl.com/team/app/?servic...age&id=2456

4. Anton Babchuk: The most pleasant surprise so far and the most improved player on the team. The 22-year-old Ukranian defenseman was a question mark to even make the team out of training camp, but he's now one of the club's most solid two-way players. He's averaging 19 minutes a game and has played more than 20 minutes 12 times since Nov. 13. Laviolette has started showing even more confidence in Babchuk by playing him on the penalty kill.

And where is everyone getting this info about Babchuk's locker room chemistry or Babchuk's coments about sending Tanabe or Hutch down? All I found was a news release saying he refused to report to Albany. Link please?

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Obviously I'm outnumbered here. :rolleyes:

Again, I've stated repeatedly that his accuracy obviously has to been worked on, but I'd rather give him a chance to work on it, rather than throw him in the minors. Get a trainer, work with him on his shot and his attitude, give him another year, and if nothing's improved, then let him go.

I understand where your coming from b/c he does have the potential to be a top 4 defensemen, but he needs to work, and frankly he's not showing a very good work ethic. It would have been to his benefit to play in Albany and work on his skills than sit in the pressbox.

Yeah, I probably wouldn't be happy being sent to the minors either, but in this business your not just being sent to be sent. Your being sent there for a reason and in Babchuk's case there were 2 reasons 1) we had Kaberle coming off of injury and 2) he would be better off playing in Albany working on his skills than sitting in the pressbox.

Take Cam. They sent him to the minors in Dec of 2005 for 3 games. Did he whine. No, he went, he played his 3 games and he came back.

In order for Babchuk to get back at the NHL level, he's gonna have to show some work ethic and stop thinking that he is so much better than everyone else.

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4. Anton Babchuk: The most pleasant surprise so far and the most improved player on the team. The 22-year-old Ukranian defenseman was a question mark to even make the team out of training camp, but he's now one of the club's most solid two-way players. He's averaging 19 minutes a game and has played more than 20 minutes 12 times since Nov. 13. Laviolette has started showing even more confidence in Babchuk by playing him on the penalty kill.

Before he was sent down, Lavi had taken him off the PK and put Wesley there in his place. The reasoning was to allow Babchuk to concentrate on one part of the game, defense. Nobody is saying he wasn't good the first part of the year, but right before he was sent down, his play had faltered, he was constantly caught out of position, he lost time on the PK and he lost ice time.

And where is everyone getting this info about Babchuk's locker room chemistry or Babchuk's coments about sending Tanabe or Hutch down? All I found was a news release saying he refused to report to Albany. Link please?

I'll try to find the link (maybe it was DeCock's blog, can't remember), but when they questioned him about not reporting his response was along the lines of i was playing good, better than others or something about how there were other people on the team that should have been sent down. We speculated he was talking about Tanabe and Hutch.

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As for his stats, they're not bad for a defensemen, especially one who's constantly shifted from the AHL to the NHL.
Constantly shifted? He was sent down once, then brought up.

He's got 14 points in 52 games. In comparison, Dennis has 8 with the same games played. Wallin's got 10 points in 67 games.
Wallin is eons better defensively than Babchuk. Also, Wallin never played on the powerplay while Babchuk got over two minutes a game.

Arguing that Babchuk has more points than a defensive defenseman like Wallin is really grasping for straws. He also had more points than Willie Mitchell, Glen Wesley, Adam Foote, Mattias Norstrom, Jason Smith and the same as Brendan Witt. What does that prove?

What's the relevance of this? Nobody was arguing that he was never playing good earlier in the year.

In late December/early January, Babchuk had a stretch where he went -9 in just ten games. After that, he played six games and cracked the 14 minute mark once. Then he was a healthy scratch and was sent to the minors.

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Babchuk one of our best defenseman for a couple of months, then his play quickly deteriorated. He was -10 in the last 15 games he was up here. He played less than 11 minutes in the four games prior to being sent down (including being a healthy scratch in the last game).

Eric Staal had a ton of games where he clearly was just going through the motions, but you didn't see him getting less ice time.

Babchuk being sent down caused him to sign in Russia? Really? Then what caused Nikolai Zherdev, Alexander Perezhogin, Evgeny Artyukhin, etc to sign there?

Perezhogin, at least, left because he was sick of being mishandled by the Habs. He wasn't getting the ice time he deserved, so he told them to screw off.

Matt Carle (a defenseman who is just three months younger than Babchuk) was sent to the AHL after a stretch where he was playing poorly, but I didn't see him throw a hissy fit and refuse to report. And that's someone who was actually managing to put up points, which Babchuk couldn't do no matter how much powerplay time he was handed.

He wasn't sent down after being his team's best D-man for a good stretch of time.

Babchuk is a restricted free agent. He can't sign with Tampa or any other team unless we refuse to match an offer sheet (which are very rare in the first place, and certainly won't be given out for a defenseman with well-known attitude problems who just signed in Russia).

He'll likely play in Russia until he becomes a UFA and then sign with someone else.

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I'm not going to accuse him of having a poor attitude or anything else. We don't know what he's thinking or what conversations he's having or has had with Rutherford, his agent or anyone else.

The irony of that blistering shot is that the only goals I saw him get "live" were when he was camped out by the net and popped one in! Perhaps that's where he needs to be - camped out on the doorstep, using that big body as a shield and shoving 'em in - rather than firing a misguided laser from the blue line!

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I dont think that we whould get rid of him. His shot is harder than most of our d-men. He has sooo many blocked shots. He just needs a little more practice and be be more cooperative. Once he gets more ice time and more opprotunities on the ice he will build a better cofidence and then he will be great... give him a shot. How much do we pay him?

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Babchuk one of our best defenseman for a couple of months, then his play quickly deteriorated. He was -10 in the last 15 games he was up here. He played less than 11 minutes in the four games prior to being sent down (including being a healthy scratch in the last game).

Eric Staal had a ton of games where he clearly was just going through the motions, but you didn't see him getting less ice time.

Apples and oranges. Babchuk can get the benefit of the doubt when he scores 100 points or actually does something to live up to his high draft selection like Staal has.

Perezhogin, at least, left because he was sick of being mishandled by the Habs. He wasn't getting the ice time he deserved, so he told them to screw off.
The ice time "he deserved"? What exactly has Perezhogin done at the NHL level to "deserve" ice-time (besides being drafted in the first round)?

Maybe things would have gone smoother for Perezhogin's transfer to North America if he didn't get himself suspended for an entire AHL season for stick-swinging. But I guess that was the Habs fault, too?

He wasn't sent down after being his team's best D-man for a good stretch of time.
Babchuk barely registered significant point totals and wasn't even given two minutes a game on the penalty kill. You'd expect a team's "best defenseman" to be doing one or the other.

I noted early on the season on HFBoards that Babchuk was basically playing the minutes Kaberle did in 05-06. A lot of powerplay time, very little penalty kill time and consistently being matched up against soft opposition so his defensive problems don't get exposed. A team's "best defenseman" does not play those minutes. But at least Kaberle managed to put up points and stick with regular minutes on the powerplay in 05-06, which Babchuk was completely inable to do.

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Obviously I'm outnumbered here. :rolleyes:

Again, I've stated repeatedly that his accuracy obviously has to been worked on, but I'd rather give him a chance to work on it, rather than throw him in the minors. Get a trainer, work with him on his shot and his attitude, give him another year, and if nothing's improved, then let him go.

Yeah, I probably wouldn't be happy being sent to the minors either, but in this business your not just being sent to be sent. Your being sent there for a reason and in Babchuk's case there were 2 reasons 1) we had Kaberle coming off of injury and 2) he would be better off playing in Albany working on his skills than sitting in the pressbox.

Take Cam. They sent him to the minors in Dec of 2005 for 3 games. Did he whine. No, he went, he played his 3 games and he came back.

In order for Babchuk to get back at the NHL level, he's gonna have to show some work ethic and stop thinking that he is so much better than everyone else.

There is no player ever happy about being sent to the minors. But the ones who always make it back up are the ones who just go out and play the way they know how and bust there butts to get back. I do not blame Babchuck for being upset about being sent here to Albany. But he should have handled it better came down worked his butt off and he would have been back up when he was needed. And that would have been sooner than later if he had just played the way he can.

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Looks like my earlier reply is drawing flies.

Like I said, Anton has potential. But I'd not get too tied up in the stats. I didnt miss a single home game this year, and I can tell you the number of games that Anton made his presence felt were actually very few.

Did he take the body or get a penalty to save a point at a critical time like Walin might do? Hardly.

Did he make that critical block when the goalie was totally out of position like Glen Wesley seems to be so uncanny at? Very few blocks in critical situations.

Did he find the open PP forward like Frank Kabrele has done so often to change the outcome of a game? Very rarely.

Did he make the deep pass to start the offense like a Brett Hedican? Very rarely.

Did he just get in the middle of a play and try to "create" something like Commodore can from time to time? No way. Anton was often Mr. Invisible out there.

And I gotta say, NO one was a bigger Tanabe basher then I was before this season. BUT Tanabe was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more valuble to us this year then Anton was. Anton was one of only 2 players with 2 way contracts we could move. So its a mute point about Hutch or Tanabe. At the time he was moved we had lots of Defensemen and we needed Ladd as our power play was non-existant and Staal was in a slump.

For anyone thats seen Anton play, he plays suprisingly "soft" for a blue liner his size. He's got potential sure, but what makes people think we will get a different Anton then what we saw this year, or that Chicago saw is beyond me. Insanity = doing the same thing twice and expecting a different outcome the second time.

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If Babchuk leaves, theCanes will be in for an interesting offseason. wesley and Hedican may be gone, and what does that leave them with? Commodore, Kaberle, Wallin (A.K.A. Mr. Sudden Death) and Gleason are good but I don't know how they'll fill the other 2 spots on defense. One can go to a rookie, but they gotta sign one really good one, Rafalski, Timonen, a guy like that.

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Looks like my earlier reply is drawing flies.

Like I said, Anton has potential. But I'd not get too tied up in the stats. I didnt miss a single home game this year, and I can tell you the number of games that Anton made his presence felt were actually very few.

Did he take the body or get a penalty to save a point at a critical time like Walin might do? Hardly.

Did he make that critical block when the goalie was totally out of position like Glen Wesley seems to be so uncanny at? Very few blocks in critical situations.

Did he find the open PP forward like Frank Kabrele has done so often to change the outcome of a game? Very rarely.

Did he make the deep pass to start the offense like a Brett Hedican? Very rarely.

Did he just get in the middle of a play and try to "create" something like Commodore can from time to time? No way. Anton was often Mr. Invisible out there.

And I gotta say, NO one was a bigger Tanabe basher then I was before this season. BUT Tanabe was wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy more valuble to us this year then Anton was. Anton was one of only 2 players with 2 way contracts we could move. So its a mute point about Hutch or Tanabe. At the time he was moved we had lots of Defensemen and we needed Ladd as our power play was non-existant and Staal was in a slump.

For anyone thats seen Anton play, he plays suprisingly "soft" for a blue liner his size. He's got potential sure, but what makes people think we will get a different Anton then what we saw this year, or that Chicago saw is beyond me. Insanity = doing the same thing twice and expecting a different outcome the second time.

QFT.... Anton got some bad advice from his agent and he should have shut, gone to Albany and he would have been back in two weeks... Now he makes matters worse by this lame attempt at showing JR hes serious about leaving. JR and Lavi are really big on Chemistry and Anton has not help himself or the team.

As for his size he is a Russian player and you can make a case for 90% of the big (6'3-6'8) Russians not having a more physical type of Play. I would take almost any 6'0 kid blueliner from BC or Ontario or NC :rolleyes: against any 6'6 Dman from Russia or any eastern bloc nation.

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It seems like an emotional attachment to Babchuk's potential continues to skew some fans' views on him.

There is an interesting parallel and contrast when you think of Babchuk and Seidenberg. Both logged a good number of minutes early in their seasons and at times showed the potential of Top 4 D-men. They both proved to have heavy shots from the point though Seidenberg's is far more accurate. Seidenberg won fans over with a physical style and Babchuk with shot blocking and booming shot.

However, they both saw their play fall off significantly after solid starts and they slid quickly down the depth chart. In both cases some fans, still enamored with their starts and future potential, wondered why they weren't in the line-up. Frankly, it was because their uneven play defensively caused them to be liabilities. Major liabilities. Honestly anybody who thought either was one of the Canes' best D-men when they got scratched were looking the other way when they both stunk it up for their last 10-12 games.

The contrast is in attitude. Seidenberg has a good one and wants to get better in order to earn his ice time. Babchuk has a poor attitude - demonstrated here, while with the Russian National Team and in Chicago's organization. He thinks he is entitled to his ice time because he exceeded expectations early in the season. Wrong. It's a 3 strikes and you're out scenario in my mind with Babchuk. Take a hike. Seidenberg, with a lot of hard work on positioning, could be a decent D-man in the future. At least he seems to know he has to keep working.

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I'm starting to change my mind too. I still think he could develop to be great but we ought to probably move on and sign a top flight dman in the offseason. Any one of the top 4 from ottawa would be fine with me, anyone know if one is avaliable?

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I'm starting to change my mind too. I still think he could develop to be great but we ought to probably move on and sign a top flight dman in the offseason. Any one of the top 4 from ottawa would be fine with me, anyone know if one is avaliable?

Tom Preissing is the only free agent on their defense. He may not be top four, but I think he would be a solid pick-up.

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Several years ago when detroit was in the finals, maybe when they were beating us, they asked Nic Lidstrom about hard shots and scoring. He was never known for his "hard shot" but his point totals don't lie. He said its more about accuracy. You gotta get the puck on net for tips, rebounds goals, etc.

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In the "for what it's worth" column, I had a chat with our Canes rep yesterday and asked him about Babchuk. He said that Babchuk heaped fire on the coals when he was quoted in a newspaper in his native country as saying he did not appreciate the Canes bringing him back up from the minors just to have him sit on the bench and get splinters in his butt. The rep said Jim Rutherford was pretty hot about that comment.

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In the "for what it's worth" column, I had a chat with our Canes rep yesterday and asked him about Babchuk. He said that Babchuk heaped fire on the coals when he was quoted in a newspaper in his native country as saying he did not appreciate the Canes bringing him back up from the minors just to have him sit on the bench and get splinters in his butt. The rep said Jim Rutherford was pretty hot about that comment.

Yeah, Babchuk will NEVER wear the sightless eye again. If JR can't work out a trade, the boy will be playing in Russia until he's a UFA. Then his only hope is that other teams forgot about his attitude and want to sign him.

Kind of funny that he complained being sent to Albany, when he was sitting on the bench, then when they brought him back, he complained about that. Buh-bye Babs.

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In the "for what it's worth" column, I had a chat with our Canes rep yesterday and asked him about Babchuk. He said that Babchuk heaped fire on the coals when he was quoted in a newspaper in his native country as saying he did not appreciate the Canes bringing him back up from the minors just to have him sit on the bench and get splinters in his butt. The rep said Jim Rutherford was pretty hot about that comment.

It was a rather rude comment to make at all...ESPECIALLY if he had any hopes of coming back. Maybe he didn't care if he came back and that's why he said it, but JR still has every right to rip him a new one

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In the "for what it's worth" column, I had a chat with our Canes rep yesterday and asked him about Babchuk. He said that Babchuk heaped fire on the coals when he was quoted in a newspaper in his native country as saying he did not appreciate the Canes bringing him back up from the minors just to have him sit on the bench and get splinters in his butt. The rep said Jim Rutherford was pretty hot about that comment.

if there is any truth to that then i am confident JR will deal with and make it the first thing to do after the team meeting next week.

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