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kingofminneapolis

who is top candidate for 3rd line center

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Did anyone read the N&O today? Nice article titled "Time to finish shaping the Hurricanes". Michael Peca and Todd White names were mentioned for 3rd line centers. Nice read if anyone is interested that has not read it.

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"and the fact thet JR doesn't care what fans think of his moves)."

Thank goodness for this fact.

CC

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AtlFlames wrote:

If we end up being a little short of cash I would go after Yanic Perrault for about $1.5M at two years.

Yanic Perrault, really? The guy is a defensive liability, I wouldn't want to see him on the canes 3rd line, which is generally seen as a more defensive oriented line. Perrault's specialty is winning draws and the canes already have the best faceoff man in the league and he isn't also a defensive liability. On a team short a guy who can win draws you want him but in Raleigh, no way.

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AtlFlames wrote:
If we end up being a little short of cash I would go after Yanic Perrault for about $1.5M at two years.

Yanic Perrault, really? The guy is a defensive liability, I wouldn't want to see him on the canes 3rd line, which is generally seen as a more defensive oriented line. Perrault's specialty is winning draws and the canes already have the best faceoff man in the league and he isn't also a defensive liability. On a team short a guy who can win draws you want him but in Raleigh, no way.

I think our best defensive line happens to be the Brindy-Whitney-Williams line. What our third line did not produce last year was goals. I agree Perrault is weak in his own zone but as I said, if we are short on cash and want an offensive upgrade over Big Joe he could be an option. You make it sound like Perrault winning draws would be a liability. I don't catch that logic.

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"and the fact thet JR doesn't care what fans think of his moves)."

Thank goodness for this fact.

CC

here here, if he read this forum and listened he would have traded the entire team last season at the trade deadline (there was someone on here that actually suggested that).

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AtlFlames wrote:

You make it sound like Perrault winning draws would be a liability. I don't catch that logic.

Its not that winning the draw makes him a liability, its what happens after the draw. I remember back in the 2002 playoffs against Montreal, Perrault would not be on the ice for important defensive zone draws at the end of the game because after he won the draw he was a liability.

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AtlFlames wrote:

You make it sound like Perrault winning draws would be a liability. I don't catch that logic.

Its not that winning the draw makes him a liability, its what happens after the draw. I remember back in the 2002 playoffs against Montreal, Perrault would not be on the ice for important defensive zone draws at the end of the game because after he won the draw he was a liability.

True...and you won't see Eric Staal taking important defensive zone faceoffs either late in the game for the same reason. Do you want Staal on the Canes? My point is this: For the money Perrault might provide us with some offense on the 3rd line. I agree he is not the guy you want shutting down the other team's top line but we need some point production from our third line center.

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AtlFlames wrote:

You make it sound like Perrault winning draws would be a liability. I don't catch that logic.

Its not that winning the draw makes him a liability, its what happens after the draw. I remember back in the 2002 playoffs against Montreal, Perrault would not be on the ice for important defensive zone draws at the end of the game because after he won the draw he was a liability.

It's true that his defense is only average on a good day but your comment about the 2002 isn't entirely correct. What you are referring to is for a key defensive zone face-off, I believe it was on Wallin's OT GWG, Therrien left Perrault on the bench in favor of Gilmour. The Canes won the draw and score on Wallin's slapshot. Therrien was ripped for not having Perrault, a guy who often wins 60% of his face-offs and arguably the best in the NHL, on the ice.

Regardless, if he wins a key draw and gains possession his defensive shortcomings aren't that worrisome because his team has the puck. His abilities to win face-offs make him valuable even if he isn't going to be confused with a Selke winner.

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stormrider wrote:

It's true that his defense is only average on a good day but your comment about the 2002 isn't entirely correct. What you are referring to is for a key defensive zone face-off, I believe it was on Wallin's OT GWG, Therrien left Perrault on the bench in favor of Gilmour. The Canes won the draw and score on Wallin's slapshot. Therrien was ripped for not having Perrault, a guy who often wins 60% of his face-offs and arguably the best in the NHL, on the ice.

It wasn't just that game winning goal though. It happened throughout the series, I can't sight any examples because I can't remember them but in general I remember late in the games if the canes were down or it was tied, you didn't see Perrault on the ice for defensive draws.

Regardless, if he wins a key draw and gains possession his defensive shortcomings aren't that worrisome because his team has the puck. His abilities to win face-offs make him valuable even if he isn't going to be confused with a Selke winner.

But even if you win 60% there are the ones you don't win and the ones you turn over afterwards.

I agree that his face off ability is a great upside and you need that kind of talent on offense, but he isn't a fit on the Canes because they need defense and timely scoring from the third line. Having Brind'Amour, not quite as good as draws as Perrault but arguably second in the league at it, and Staal, who isn't that great at face offs but is the Canes best playmmaker, at center means you don't need a face off and offensive specialist like Perrault. If Staal or Bring'Amour were gone, I'd be in favor of taking a look at him as a top 2 line center, but he isn't good enough defensively to be on the canes 3rd line, who plays against the other teams second line most the night.

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It wasn't just that game winning goal though. It happened throughout the series, I can't sight any examples because I can't remember them but in general I remember late in the games if the canes were down or it was tied, you didn't see Perrault on the ice for defensive draws.

But even if you win 60% there are the ones you don't win and the ones you turn over afterwards.

I agree that his face off ability is a great upside and you need that kind of talent on offense, but he isn't a fit on the Canes because they need defense and timely scoring from the third line. Having Brind'Amour, not quite as good as draws as Perrault but arguably second in the league at it, and Staal, who isn't that great at face offs but is the Canes best playmmaker, at center means you don't need a face off and offensive specialist like Perrault. If Staal or Bring'Amour were gone, I'd be in favor of taking a look at him as a top 2 line center, but he isn't good enough defensively to be on the canes 3rd line, who plays against the other teams second line most the night.

Perrault was the best in the league and Thierren got a lot of heat for not having him out there. That playoff year Montreal had 3-4 good options on draws with Perrault, Gilmour, Juneau, and Koivu. You insert players under the assumption you will win the draw not based on what happens if you lose it. That was the entire basis for Thierren getting raked over the coals for leaving Perrault on the bench. You don't just shield the best face-off guy in the league. He's not great defensively but he isn't a pylon either. You don't leave him on the bench for fear he is going to be beaten.

As far as the role of the 3rd line, Cullen wasn't exactly a defensive stalwart. He had good make-up speed which is why he played the point on the PP but defense wasn't his strong suit and his lack of physical play often could be exploited. I'm not sure where you are coming from with the notion that the 3rd line for the Canes matches up with the other teams second line. For one, Lavi rarely plays match-ups even at home and two, since half your games are on the road it's tough to get those kind of match-ups.

This year's 3rd line did become more of a cycling and possession line but out of necessity not by design. The clear objective stated by JR was to get more offensive production for the 3rd line. I'm not saying Perrault should be the #1 target - I stated my preference for Stumpel weeks ago - but I wouldn't rule him out based on the concerns you have cited.

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Eactly, Cullen can't be bought out though, i think thats against NHL rules. Or at least a portion of his salary would still be on the Cap. Canes could trade a conditional draft pick or something for him. Not sure what JR's comments were about Cullen, but I'm guessing the team needs a guy like him at 3rd line Center. but again, Cullen could be in the rangers long-term plans, and for all i know, they might try him again at 2nd line center. Gomez wants lots of dough, and too much for a 2nd line cente rin my opinion. I pray Gomez doesn't sign with New York.

Better Gomez than Forsberg (I can't believe I typed that).

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I wonder what it'd cost to get Scottie Gomez...but if we had the room, imagine how strong our offense would be.

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I wonder what it'd cost to get Scottie Gomez...but if we had the room, imagine how strong our offense would be.

His price tag will unquestionably be more than what Brindy and Staal make. The $6 million+/year range is being rumored. To overpay for him to get 3rd line minutes, doesn't make sense. It won't happen.

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I think that Walker should wing for Rosie and Craig Adams. Put Ladd and Letowski on Aucoin's wings...

Stillman-Staal-Cole

Whitney-Brind'Amour-Williams

Adams-LaRose-Walker

Ladd-Aucoin-Letowski

Kaberle-Commodore

Wesley-Wallin

Seidenberg-Tanabe

Ward

Grahame

is there any reason you left out hedican on defense?

also i would still like to see a new face in this position FA/ recently drafted w/e but really as long as they can pick up the slack and are reasonably cheap i am happy.

Apparently he's getting rid of Gleason too.

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I think that Walker should wing for Rosie and Craig Adams. Put Ladd and Letowski on Aucoin's wings...

Stillman-Staal-Cole

Whitney-Brind'Amour-Williams

Adams-LaRose-Walker

Ladd-Aucoin-Letowski

Kaberle-Commodore

Wesley-Wallin

Seidenberg-Tanabe

Ward

Grahame

is there any reason you left out hedican on defense?

also i would still like to see a new face in this position FA/ recently drafted w/e but really as long as they can pick up the slack and are reasonably cheap i am happy.

Apparently he's getting rid of Gleason too.

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is there any reason you left out hedican on defense?

also i would still like to see a new face in this position FA/ recently drafted w/e but really as long as they can pick up the slack and are reasonably cheap i am happy.

Apparently he's getting rid of Gleason too.

as i see it the only way Tanabe gets a contract is "maybe" if Hedican retires.

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I wonder what it'd cost to get Scottie Gomez...but if we had the room, imagine how strong our offense would be.

This isn't a video game where you can stack your team and have 3 first line centres. As good as Gomez is not only can we not afford him but it would be a dumb move to bring him in. Whose minutes would you cut? Brind'amour is at his best when he's playing around 24 minutes a night and Staal is our biggest threat on offense so obviously we want him out there for twenty minutes. Unless you throw Gomez on a wing (which I don't know if he can do) you'd have to split the remaining 16 minutes or so between him and our fourth line center. Is that worth 6 million to you? Let's get Peter Forsberg to be our fourth line centre while we're at it. We can release all our defensemen to free up cap space. Who needs them when you can score 10 goals a game?

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I wonder what it'd cost to get Scottie Gomez...but if we had the room, imagine how strong our offense would be.

This isn't a video game where you can stack your team and have 3 first line centres. As good as Gomez is not only can we not afford him but it would be a dumb move to bring him in. Whose minutes would you cut? Brind'amour is at his best when he's playing around 24 minutes a night and Staal is our biggest threat on offense so obviously we want him out there for twenty minutes. Unless you throw Gomez on a wing (which I don't know if he can do) you'd have to split the remaining 16 minutes or so between him and our fourth line center. Is that worth 6 million to you? Let's get Peter Forsberg to be our fourth line centre while we're at it. We can release all our defensemen to free up cap space. Who needs them when you can score 10 goals a game?

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm?

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I wonder what it'd cost to get Scottie Gomez...but if we had the room, imagine how strong our offense would be.

This isn't a video game where you can stack your team and have 3 first line centres. As good as Gomez is not only can we not afford him but it would be a dumb move to bring him in. Whose minutes would you cut? Brind'amour is at his best when he's playing around 24 minutes a night and Staal is our biggest threat on offense so obviously we want him out there for twenty minutes. Unless you throw Gomez on a wing (which I don't know if he can do) you'd have to split the remaining 16 minutes or so between him and our fourth line center. Is that worth 6 million to you? Let's get Peter Forsberg to be our fourth line centre while we're at it. We can release all our defensemen to free up cap space. Who needs them when you can score 10 goals a game?

Do I detect a hint of sarcasm?

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