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Cullen is not going to be bought out. That would count against the Rangers' cap for the next six seasons. They can just send him to the minors and not have any cap hit.

Yes, but if they get desperate enough, they could trade him for cheap.

We all know JR is kicking himself for letting Cullen go. He's said it many times that he messed up on this. If JR can work a trade for Cullen, I do see him doing this, even if his cap hit is like $2.8 million for a 3rd line. Isn't Walker's cap hit $2.5 million? He might just bite the bullet.

JR ever said anything of the sort. Here's his exact words:

http://hurricanes.nhl.com/team/app?articleid=298761&page=NewsPage&service=page' target="_blank">http://hurricanes.nhl.com/team/app?article...mp;service=page[/post]

"RUTHERFORD: The only player that I think that we lost that really had an impact on the team was Matt Cullen. And in sports, it happens everywhere, except maybe with the Yankees, teams can

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Cullen is not going to be bought out. That would count against the Rangers' cap for the next six seasons. They can just send him to the minors and not have any cap hit.

Yes, but if they get desperate enough, they could trade him for cheap.

We all know JR is kicking himself for letting Cullen go. He's said it many times that he messed up on this. If JR can work a trade for Cullen, I do see him doing this, even if his cap hit is like $2.8 million for a 3rd line. Isn't Walker's cap hit $2.5 million? He might just bite the bullet.

JR ever said anything of the sort. Here's his exact words:

http://hurricanes.nhl.com/team/app?articleid=298761&page=NewsPage&service=page' target="_blank">http://hurricanes.nhl.com/team/app?article...mp;service=page[/post]

"RUTHERFORD: The only player that I think that we lost that really had an impact on the team was Matt Cullen. And in sports, it happens everywhere, except maybe with the Yankees, teams can’t keep players all the time. You have to make decisions financially, and that decision is not necessarily made on the first year, it’s based on the cap system, and if you don’t have a structure in your payroll, eventually the cap system will bite you. Could we have paid Matt Cullen $2.8 (million) like the Rangers did this year? Yeah, we could have done that. Would it have affected us down the road? Probably. If you just take the contract aside, which I don’t blame him for going for the money, he got quite a bit more than we offered him, he would have helped our team. He’s a good player. He was a good player for us last year and he’s going to help any team.

The biggest problem with our team was not that we lost Matt Cullen, the biggest problem was that I couldn’t fill the void that he left. We have to find a third line center that can bring more to our team than the guys that played that position this year. And that will be one of the things we work on this summer."

The main point he's making is that Cullen is making too much money to fit into our payroll structure for the next few seasons and that a third-line center cannot be making that money if you want to keep more important players. Look at our list of free agents over the next two seasons and give me your plan on how we would be able to keep players like Commodore, Stillman and Cole if we're paying Matt Cullen $2.8M/yr for the next three seasons. And that's on top of giving raises to Staal, Gleason and Ladd.

That Walker is already making $2.5M to play on the third line makes it an even more absurd idea to pay Cullen what he is making to do the same. There's only so many highly paid role players a team can have before they can't afford to pay their key players.

Walker at $2.5M is a much better deal than Cullen at $2.8. If we go by how Cullen is paid, a fair compensation for Walker would be $3.5M...which is ridiculous.

That's if you plan on resigning guys like Stillman and Cole. I think it's highly likely that Wesley and Hedican walk after this season, and it wouldn't surprise me to see a GM think he could more easily replace what Stillman provides than Cullen. Stillman is in line for a big raise next off-season, and I think it at least reasonable to consider whether we'd try to resign him or let him walk considering what he's likely to get offered. The only UFA I think we're definitely going to resign next year is Commodore. With Hedican and Wesley likely to retire, our D corps could be thin otherwise. Seeing Hedican, Wesley, and Stillman not on the payroll would make paying Cullen more reasonable, and Cullen at 2.8 this offseason looks a lot different than it did last year - the market has changed pretty dramatically.

I'm not saying it's going to happen or is even likely. I am saying I can see it a whole lot more likely on July 11 than I could before Drury and Gomez signed with the Rags. That has changed both NY's cap and center situation change dramatically. With Gomez, Drury, Straka, Cullen, Prucha, Betts and Hollweg all under contract at the C position, someone's gotta go.

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Cullen is not going to be bought out. That would count against the Rangers' cap for the next six seasons. They can just send him to the minors and not have any cap hit.

Yes, but if they get desperate enough, they could trade him for cheap.

We all know JR is kicking himself for letting Cullen go. He's said it many times that he messed up on this. If JR can work a trade for Cullen, I do see him doing this, even if his cap hit is like $2.8 million for a 3rd line. Isn't Walker's cap hit $2.5 million? He might just bite the bullet.

JR ever said anything of the sort. Here's his exact words:

http://hurricanes.nhl.com/team/app?article...mp;service=page

"RUTHERFORD: The only player that I think that we lost that really had an impact on the team was Matt Cullen. And in sports, it happens everywhere, except maybe with the Yankees, teams can

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Hah they aren't "up against the cap" They have jumped over it by nearly $2Mil.

They are going to need to get rid of SOMEONE.

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That's if you plan on resigning guys like Stillman and Cole. I think it's highly likely that Wesley and Hedican walk after this season, and it wouldn't surprise me to see a GM think he could more easily replace what Stillman provides than Cullen.
If Hedican and Wesley walk, that money we "save" needs to be used to replace them...not spent on excess forwards.

The Stillman comment is just flat out absurd on so many levels. Yeah, point-per-game first line wingers more easy to replace than third-line centers. :rolleyes:

If and this is a BIG IF, i'm just playing around here. But let's say he gets the Rags to take Babchuk and Letowski for Cullen. He will be about $500K over his proposed $44 million cap. However, he has said that if they can get the player they want, PK will increase their proposed cap to get that player. So you can't say its not doable.

Besides, I seriously doubt the Rags will take Babchuk and Letowski. If their gonna take a disgruntled Russian off our hands, their gonna want Ladd. Now the question is does JR bite. That's one less guy you don't have to worry about getting a raise at the end of the year.

Did you just propose trading Andrew Ladd in a deal that nets us...Matt Cullen?

Just stop. Please. If JR "bites" on that, he should be fired immediately.

We are in no hurry or need to trade Babchuk. He has no salary or cap hit.

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That's if you plan on resigning guys like Stillman and Cole. I think it's highly likely that Wesley and Hedican walk after this season, and it wouldn't surprise me to see a GM think he could more easily replace what Stillman provides than Cullen.
If Hedican and Wesley walk, that money we "save" needs to be used to replace them...not spent on excess forwards.

The Stillman comment is just flat out absurd on so many levels. Yeah, point-per-game first line wingers more easy to replace than third-line centers. :rolleyes:

If and this is a BIG IF, i'm just playing around here. But let's say he gets the Rags to take Babchuk and Letowski for Cullen. He will be about $500K over his proposed $44 million cap. However, he has said that if they can get the player they want, PK will increase their proposed cap to get that player. So you can't say its not doable.

Besides, I seriously doubt the Rags will take Babchuk and Letowski. If their gonna take a disgruntled Russian off our hands, their gonna want Ladd. Now the question is does JR bite. That's one less guy you don't have to worry about getting a raise at the end of the year.

Did you just propose trading Andrew Ladd in a deal that nets us...Matt Cullen?

Just stop. Please. If JR "bites" on that, he should be fired immediately.

We are in no hurry or need to trade Babchuk. He has no salary or cap hit.

The Rags might actually take Babs and Letowski simply because they need to clear the cap. And they still got 2 more players to sign. Its a very good possibility.

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No way does Ladd go to the rangers. They're in a tight spot so they aren't in a position to make any steals like that. They're not going to rip us off. If anyone takes Cullen off their hands it will be for peanuts.

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Did you just propose trading Andrew Ladd in a deal that nets us...Matt Cullen?

Just stop. Please. If JR "bites" on that, he should be fired immediately.

We are in no hurry or need to trade Babchuk. He has no salary or cap hit.

No I just did not propose trading Ladd for Cullen, IMO that would be stupid. All I said was I don't see the Rags taking on our disgruntled defenseman and Letowski. If their gonna take on our disgruntled defenseman their gonna want someone like Ladd.

But JR was willing to trade Ladd at the deadline if the right deal came along. Wouldn't surprise me if he bites. Do I think its the right thing to do, absolutley not.

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The only way a deal goes down will not be dollar for dollar because the rags will not have bought any cap space. It will likely be for Babs (who is not under contract) and Letowski/Hutch. Is it fair to the Rags, NO!! But their GM needs cap space and will take players of lesser value to get that given who else he needs to sign. He is between a rock and a hard place and we can reap the benefits.

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I like Cullen but he left to easy last year. Ladd is the man to have with his youth and determination to excel. When he went to Coach L. and said he wanted more playing time, it showed me a guy that wants to get better. And that he did!

He has the grit we need too. He stands in front of the goalie and even when the play is dead will still stand there to intimidate them even more. I like his style!

So I vote 'NO' for trading Ladd for Cullen. (If it matters...lol)

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Did you just propose trading Andrew Ladd in a deal that nets us...Matt Cullen?

Just stop. Please. If JR "bites" on that, he should be fired immediately.

We are in no hurry or need to trade Babchuk. He has no salary or cap hit.

No I just did not propose trading Ladd for Cullen, IMO that would be stupid. All I said was I don't see the Rags taking on our disgruntled defenseman and Letowski. If their gonna take on our disgruntled defenseman their gonna want someone like Ladd.

The point is that no one needs to take on our disgruntled defenseman. He might as well not exist to us. He has no salary, no cap hit, doesn't count towards the 50 contract limit, etc.

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The only way a deal goes down will not be dollar for dollar because the rags will not have bought any cap space. It will likely be for Babs (who is not under contract) and Letowski/Hutch. Is it fair to the Rags, NO!! But their GM needs cap space and will take players of lesser value to get that given who else he needs to sign. He is between a rock and a hard place and we can reap the benefits.

Hey guys, see above!! this deal only goes down if the rags take our junk. THEY NEED CAP SPACE!! Trading Ladd, Cole, Williams, or anyone other than the trio (Babs, Hutch, Letowski) does them no good in regard to the cap.

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Did you just propose trading Andrew Ladd in a deal that nets us...Matt Cullen?

Just stop. Please. If JR "bites" on that, he should be fired immediately.

We are in no hurry or need to trade Babchuk. He has no salary or cap hit.

No I just did not propose trading Ladd for Cullen, IMO that would be stupid. All I said was I don't see the Rags taking on our disgruntled defenseman and Letowski. If their gonna take on our disgruntled defenseman their gonna want someone like Ladd.

The point is that no one needs to take on our disgruntled defenseman. He might as well not exist to us. He has no salary, no cap hit, doesn't count towards the 50 contract limit, etc.

The point is JR doesn't want to deal with Babchuk any longer. He may be in Russia, but JR doesn't want to have to deal with him or his agent. He wants Babchuk gone and I think he's made that pretty clear. Babchuk will never play for this team again, so JR might as well get something for him.

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JR has been trying to get something for him. His value is incredibly low, even more so with his going to Russia. Didn't impress anyone.

yep but if you are the rangers and needing cap space then he might work and you can deal with his issues later.

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JR has been trying to get something for him. His value is incredibly low, even more so with his going to Russia. Didn't impress anyone.

yep but if you are the rangers and needing cap space then he might work and you can deal with his issues later.

Exactly. The rags will be desperate to shed cap. Getting Babchuk will allow them to keep him in Russia and they won't have to pay a dime to him.

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That's if you plan on resigning guys like Stillman and Cole. I think it's highly likely that Wesley and Hedican walk after this season, and it wouldn't surprise me to see a GM think he could more easily replace what Stillman provides than Cullen.
If Hedican and Wesley walk, that money we "save" needs to be used to replace them...not spent on excess forwards.

The Stillman comment is just flat out absurd on so many levels. Yeah, point-per-game first line wingers more easy to replace than third-line centers. :rolleyes:

Roll your eyes all you like, but considering the forward depth the Hurricanes have and their relative weaknesses up the middle, it's far from absurd to suggest that someone who can win face offs, play center, and run the power play would be tougher to replace for this team than a winger. In general you're correct, but we're not talking in generalities, we're talking about the reality of the Hurricanes, and that reality is that we've awesome depth at the wings, and not much up the middle. Besides, Stillman is going to be looking for a substantial raise next offseason after playing for several years at a bargain price of 1.75M, and he'll be 34 at that point. You really think we're going to go after him hard while we've a a young buck, high draft pick who's been developing before our eyes ready to step in and play top 6 minutes in Ladd? Cullen is 3 years younger than Stillman, addresses all of our major weaknesses, is a known commodity in the locker room, and is currently employed by a team that clearly has no use for him going forward.

And while it's true to say that we could have had him last year at this price, a whole bunch has changed since last year that makes his current contract situation a lot more reasonable now than it was 12 months ago. For one thing, the market changed pretty dramatically in the last two weeks, with guys like Todd White getting deals exactly like Cullen did last year as well as the cap going up dramatically. Furthermore, Cullen has had a year to chase top line stats, and he didn't fare very well in that endeavor, making a familiar role with his old team look more appealing now. Yet another thing is that instead of paying Cullen for 4 years, his contract is now 3.

Again, I'm not saying it's going to happen. However, to dismiss the possibility as "ridiculous" ignores the realities of the Hurricanes' current roster situation and how dramatically the economics of the game have changed in the last 13 months. What looked like "way too much" to pay a guy like Cullen 13 months ago now looks "a tad high" at worst, and considering the deals Comrie, Drury, Gomez, White, Stumpel, Nylander, et al got, it looks a lot closer to "market value" than I'd have ever imagined 13 months ago.

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That's if you plan on resigning guys like Stillman and Cole. I think it's highly likely that Wesley and Hedican walk after this season, and it wouldn't surprise me to see a GM think he could more easily replace what Stillman provides than Cullen.
If Hedican and Wesley walk, that money we "save" needs to be used to replace them...not spent on excess forwards.

The Stillman comment is just flat out absurd on so many levels. Yeah, point-per-game first line wingers more easy to replace than third-line centers. :rolleyes:

Roll your eyes all you like, but considering the forward depth the Hurricanes have and their relative weaknesses up the middle, it's far from absurd to suggest that someone who can win face offs, play center, and run the power play would be tougher to replace for this team than a winger. In general you're correct, but we're not talking in generalities, we're talking about the reality of the Hurricanes, and that reality is that we've awesome depth at the wings, and not much up the middle. Besides, Stillman is going to be looking for a substantial raise next offseason after playing for several years at a bargain price of 1.75M, and he'll be 34 at that point. You really think we're going to go after him hard while we've a a young buck, high draft pick who's been developing before our eyes ready to step in and play top 6 minutes in Ladd? Cullen is 3 years younger than Stillman, addresses all of our major weaknesses, is a known commodity in the locker room, and is currently employed by a team that clearly has no use for him going forward.

And while it's true to say that we could have had him last year at this price, a whole bunch has changed since last year that makes his current contract situation a lot more reasonable now than it was 12 months ago. For one thing, the market changed pretty dramatically in the last two weeks, with guys like Todd White getting deals exactly like Cullen did last year as well as the cap going up dramatically. Furthermore, Cullen has had a year to chase top line stats, and he didn't fare very well in that endeavor, making a familiar role with his old team look more appealing now. Yet another thing is that instead of paying Cullen for 4 years, his contract is now 3.

Again, I'm not saying it's going to happen. However, to dismiss the possibility as "ridiculous" ignores the realities of the Hurricanes' current roster situation and how dramatically the economics of the game have changed in the last 13 months. What looked like "way too much" to pay a guy like Cullen 13 months ago now looks "a tad high" at worst, and considering the deals Comrie, Drury, Gomez, White, Stumpel, Nylander, et al got, it looks a lot closer to "market value" than I'd have ever imagined 13 months ago.

Your comment about market relativity is a fair one but the most important point of relevance is this market, one that is still maturing. The bottom line is that if the Hurricanes return to form and make a deep playoff run it will be a relatively moot point but could cause some salary constraints depending on overall attendance (and if there is a playoff run). If the team struggles though, then we are looking at dumping salary and name players.

On your Ladd argument, you have to take into account the differences in his game and Stillman's. Ladd is a prototypical power forward who will get you garbage goals but isn't going to help much with his passing. Stillman though will typically chip in 20+ and be a playmaking forward to set up Staal. That is huge.

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That's if you plan on resigning guys like Stillman and Cole. I think it's highly likely that Wesley and Hedican walk after this season, and it wouldn't surprise me to see a GM think he could more easily replace what Stillman provides than Cullen.
If Hedican and Wesley walk, that money we "save" needs to be used to replace them...not spent on excess forwards.

The Stillman comment is just flat out absurd on so many levels. Yeah, point-per-game first line wingers more easy to replace than third-line centers. :rolleyes:

Roll your eyes all you like, but considering the forward depth the Hurricanes have and their relative weaknesses up the middle, it's far from absurd to suggest that someone who can win face offs, play center, and run the power play would be tougher to replace for this team than a winger. In general you're correct, but we're not talking in generalities, we're talking about the reality of the Hurricanes, and that reality is that we've awesome depth at the wings, and not much up the middle. Besides, Stillman is going to be looking for a substantial raise next offseason after playing for several years at a bargain price of 1.75M, and he'll be 34 at that point. You really think we're going to go after him hard while we've a a young buck, high draft pick who's been developing before our eyes ready to step in and play top 6 minutes in Ladd? Cullen is 3 years younger than Stillman, addresses all of our major weaknesses, is a known commodity in the locker room, and is currently employed by a team that clearly has no use for him going forward.

And while it's true to say that we could have had him last year at this price, a whole bunch has changed since last year that makes his current contract situation a lot more reasonable now than it was 12 months ago. For one thing, the market changed pretty dramatically in the last two weeks, with guys like Todd White getting deals exactly like Cullen did last year as well as the cap going up dramatically. Furthermore, Cullen has had a year to chase top line stats, and he didn't fare very well in that endeavor, making a familiar role with his old team look more appealing now. Yet another thing is that instead of paying Cullen for 4 years, his contract is now 3.

Again, I'm not saying it's going to happen. However, to dismiss the possibility as "ridiculous" ignores the realities of the Hurricanes' current roster situation and how dramatically the economics of the game have changed in the last 13 months. What looked like "way too much" to pay a guy like Cullen 13 months ago now looks "a tad high" at worst, and considering the deals Comrie, Drury, Gomez, White, Stumpel, Nylander, et al got, it looks a lot closer to "market value" than I'd have ever imagined 13 months ago.

Your comment about market relativity is a fair one but the most important point of relevance is this market, one that is still maturing. The bottom line is that if the Hurricanes return to form and make a deep playoff run it will be a relatively moot point but could cause some salary constraints depending on overall attendance (and if there is a playoff run). If the team struggles though, then we are looking at dumping salary and name players.

On your Ladd argument, you have to take into account the differences in his game and Stillman's. Ladd is a prototypical power forward who will get you garbage goals but isn't going to help much with his passing. Stillman though will typically chip in 20+ and be a playmaking forward to set up Staal. That is huge.

I concur that Ladd and Stillman are very different types of players, and I did not mean to imply that Ladd = Stillman. I was simply looking at the numbers at nhlnumbers.com, and while I'm not professional GM, I cannot see how we're going to resign a guy like Stillman next offseason given his age and likely contract desires, especially given the forwards we've got relatively locked up for the next few years.

I also concur that getting someone like Cullen would necessitate a playoff run for the economics to work out, but given where the team is right now that's got to be the goal for this season.

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I concur that Ladd and Stillman are very different types of players, and I did not mean to imply that Ladd = Stillman. I was simply looking at the numbers at nhlnumbers.com, and while I'm not professional GM, I cannot see how we're going to resign a guy like Stillman next offseason given his age and likely contract desires, especially given the forwards we've got relatively locked up for the next few years.

I also concur that getting someone like Cullen would necessitate a playoff run for the economics to work out, but given where the team is right now that's got to be the goal for this season.

I understand but my point was that if you let Stillman walk, his role still has replaced and even with the commitment to a developing Ladd he isn't the guy to do it. Guys who can do what Stillman does aren't plentiful and they aren't cheap. The economic reality is that at some point guys will get squeezed even you overpay for role players. Cullen, for all the good things he does, is a role player. With 2 Cups, I think Stillman may be looking at stability more than cashing out at market value. Somewhat similar to Whitney's situation.

I'm just not convinced that Cullen, though I like what he brings, is the missing piece to the puzzle here. If it were my money, I'd free up some salary and go for a reliable, puck-moving defenseman. That is where the greater need and greater return would be if you could only make 1 more move. If Cullen got bought out, I'd jump on that and trade Hamilton away if he resisted his new role.

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