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IceFrog999

Who to start against Montreal on Saturday?

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Yes, Grahame is shaky at times, and yes the team didn't play as well in front of him, but there are a couple of points here that lead me to side with icefrog in saying that we start Grahame. Yes he can be shaky, but won't playing him make him more comfortable? Also won't that make the team more comfortable in front of him? It takes to goalies to win and if we can't establish Grahame, why do we have him still and not someone who isn't as good as he is? He is a capable goal-tender, and I hope we start him enough to get him established on this team.

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I don't think I like the idea of taking losses to try and get the team to play better in front of Grahame. Cam should get all the starts that he is comfortable with. Obviously he can't play 82 games, John will need to start some of the BTB, but playing the backup just to play him is ridiculous.

John doesn't need to get established on this time as a long term fix. I REALLLLLLLY doubt that Grahame is going to get re-signed after his contract is up....I am willing to bet money on it. Backup goalies don't need to be making nearly the same amount of money as the starter when you have other key players to sign and goalies that will take less money for the backup job.

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If it ain't broke, don't fix it.............or something like that.

Give Cam Ward the nod. Maybe the hot offense will have even more motivation to redeem themselves and get Cam Ward the win that escaped him and the team last time out.

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As much as I would love to see Johnny play, I say Cam. He's the hot hand and he'll get a shot at revenge.

I do have to disagree with the team lacking confidence in JG.... I mean *logically* if the team had so little confidence in him, wouldn't they be working their butts off to make sure nothing got through to him?? :blink:

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I think this is a very important game this season. Cause this is our first chance at a redemption win, and I think cam wants to win this one. Habs have played very well at the bell centre the past few years. I'll have to go with cam Ward, and give Grahame an opportunity against the Penguin or Flyers.

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Yes, Grahame is shaky at times, and yes the team didn't play as well in front of him, but there are a couple of points here that lead me to side with icefrog in saying that we start Grahame. Yes he can be shaky, but won't playing him make him more comfortable? Also won't that make the team more comfortable in front of him? It takes to goalies to win and if we can't establish Grahame, why do we have him still and not someone who isn't as good as he is? He is a capable goal-tender, and I hope we start him enough to get him established on this team.

I'm probably in the minority here, cause I actually like Grahame. There were many many games last here where he stood on his head and our offense was flat and didn't score. Grahame and Ward bring different aspects to the game, they are not the same type of player. Grahame IMHO has great puckhandling skills. The guys do play differently depending on which guy is in goal but its not b/c they have lack of confidence over the other. There's different styles, so the guys play to that style. One thing I've noticed is that the guys allow Grahame to play the puck more than Cam, IMO, this is an area lacking for Cam.

With all this said, you don't just play a goalie to make him more comfortable. Coaches always go with whose hot and right now you gotta ride Cam. If it was later in the year, then yeah possibly play Grahame, but its only 6 games in and he's not at all tired. And I'm sure if we had a game Monday night, you would probably see Grahame, but since our next one isn't till Thursday I believe, we will probably see Cam in Pittsburgh and Grahame for Philly.

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Hard to beleive there is any debate about this. Cam Ward not hot? He has a 1.99 GAA (7th in the league) and a .939 save % (6th, and 3/5 ahead of him have only played 2 games). This does not include the last preseason game where he stopped about 39/40 shots and all 9 shootout attempts. And that with an offense-first team. The man in on fire!

Cam starting in Montreal is as sure a bet as there is in hockey. Graham will play in Philly.

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First of all if Grahame only played when we has BTB games he would only play like 16 games. You Guys have got to get over the idea that Playing Grahame means loosing the game!!! Very few games can you blame the loss on ONE player.

With that said I also Agree that you ride whichever goalie is hot. And ATM that is Ward so we should let him Start tomorrow.

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First of all if Grahame only played when we has BTB games he would only play like 16 games. You Guys have got to get over the idea that Playing Grahame means loosing the game!!! Very few games can you blame the loss on ONE player.

With that said I also Agree that you ride whichever goalie is hot. And ATM that is Ward so we should let him Start tomorrow.

Not blaming it on Grahame because he does have some good games, but you've gotta admit the team seems to play a lot worse in front of him as opposed to Ward. I can't explain it but it happens and it's weird.

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Not blaming it on Grahame because he does have some good games, but you've gotta admit the team seems to play a lot worse in front of him as opposed to Ward. I can't explain it but it happens and it's weird.

Its Wierd and it has to stop. They absolutely cant do that come playoff time. No matter if its with Grahame, Leighton, or some other backup goalie in the future.

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Its Wierd and it has to stop. They absolutely cant do that come playoff time. No matter if its with Grahame, Leighton, or some other backup goalie in the future.

....they only play like that in front of Grahame on a consistent basis actually. Which is kind of everyone's point.

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....they only play like that in front of Grahame on a consistent basis actually. Which is kind of everyone's point.

And my point is that if they dot it to Grahame they might do it to any other Backup goalie we hire. They have to get rid of this its not Ward so lets not play attitude.

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i say that we give cam a chance to redeem himself against montreal. if he continues to play like he has been playing, and the canes continue to win, then i don't see why we should shuffle goalies on such a regular basis.

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Um.....they do it because OBVIOUSLY they don't trust Grahame. It's not about the backup goalie as a theory.

They didn't do it to Leighton in the preseason, notice that?

Even Forslund made a comment about the problem being from within the locker room with how they play in front of him. Just accept it and realize that they will probably never play as well in front of Grahame as they do in front of Ward or any other goalie.

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I did not see any real change of play when Leighton was in. On 9/16 its was not until after washington pulled Johnson that we got anything through.

But what irritates me most is not that the players do that tis that the fans in general dont support him either. There are a few who will cheer for him but the majority think that Ward is great and Playing Grahame means loosing. He is not the reason we loose games! he does play well most of the time, he has off nights like anyone else, but by and large he does his job. I think that if more of the fans supported John the players might too.

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Not blaming it on Grahame because he does have some good games, but you've gotta admit the team seems to play a lot worse in front of him as opposed to Ward. I can't explain it but it happens and it's weird.

Honestly I think the whole they play like crap in front of Grahame is crap. Back in 2005-06 we heard the samething except the guys played bad in front of Cam. If that was true, then how did they win the Cup? Did they just all of a sudden turn that switch on Game 3, Round 1. No they didn't.

Point is, these guys are professionals and they want to win no matter who is in net. And like I said before, both goalies have different styles, so yes the team needs to adjust to how that goalie plays the game, but they don't play like crap when one is in and the other isn't. Otherwise, Grahame wouldn't have had any wins last year. They just might be more used to Cam's game so it seems they play better, but its not like they sit there and say oh Grahame is in net so let's not show up tonight.

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Regardless of whether or not he's played them this year they will know his weaknesses. Teams do scouting and they prepare themselves very well for the games. It's not like this was the first time they've ever seen Ward and now the secret's out of the bag. Goalies everywhere have to deal with teams who attempt to exploit their weaknesses, that's how it works. They want to score, you don't want them to. So I think Ward plays, he's real hot right now. It's not like he played poorly against them either so you "he has already been beaten by them" comment doesn't really make sense. He's not going to hide from them now that they beat him. If Grahame plays and loses who do we call up for the next game against them? If anything Ward will be more motivated to get the better of them this time around.

As shane says above, it's not like they have never seen Ward before and how he plays. Ward definitely needs to play, he deserves a chance to have a win with Montreal. We did not lose this game because of Ward, go back and watch the game again if you DVR'd it, the team only came out in the 1st period and left the building for the next 2 periods. If Grahame plays and we lose, Lavi will never live it down with the fans, if Ward loses, we'll say "can't win them all and that's hockey".

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I don't think I like the idea of taking losses to try and get the team to play better in front of Grahame. Cam should get all the starts that he is comfortable with. Obviously he can't play 82 games, John will need to start some of the BTB, but playing the backup just to play him is ridiculous.

John doesn't need to get established on this time as a long term fix. I REALLLLLLLY doubt that Grahame is going to get re-signed after his contract is up....I am willing to bet money on it. Backup goalies don't need to be making nearly the same amount of money as the starter when you have other key players to sign and goalies that will take less money for the backup job.

You don't say... ;)

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Ok, this whole consistency thing, I think, is a bunch of bull. I saw the team last year play just as bad in front of Cam than I did Grahame more than once. And I also saw the team play awesome in front of Grahame too last year. They are professionals and part of being a team is to be comfortable in front of or with any player thats playing with you. I think coach Lavi is smart enough to stop it or try to make changes if there was a problem. Thats also why I think the "problem" in the locker room or whatever it is that was brought up is also a bunch of bull. One reporter supposedly said that?? Personally I haven't heard that or read it anywhere and I think that something like that would be everywhere. From knowing how it is here in Tampa with the reporters, they do not get full access like many people believe. And sometimes their opinions or take on something takes over instead of the facts. Then it is also how the fan wants to take it or read into it. If there is a lack of favorability, ya certain fans will make it into what they want to. They let their opinions take over. Thats why unless you have actual facts, its all rumor!

They win as a team and loss as a team. And ya, if it was not Grahame in there it would be someone else and who can say it would be any different. If there was really a problem, the organization had plenty of opportunities to had made changes before now.

I don't think that this "consistency" thing has to do with who is in goal. It was the same problem as last year. Almost as like as soon as the wins came, they became lackadaisical. Then after a loss or two, the vigor came back. It looked like a cycle.

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Ok, this whole consistency thing, I think, is a bunch of bull. I saw the team last year play just as bad in front of Cam than I did Grahame more than once. And I also saw the team play awesome in front of Grahame too last year. They are professionals and part of being a team is to be comfortable in front of or with any player thats playing with you. I think coach Lavi is smart enough to stop it or try to make changes if there was a problem. Thats also why I think the "problem" in the locker room or whatever it is that was brought up is also a bunch of bull. One reporter supposedly said that?? Personally I haven't heard that or read it anywhere and I think that something like that would be everywhere. From knowing how it is here in Tampa with the reporters, they do not get full access like many people believe. And sometimes their opinions or take on something takes over instead of the facts. Then it is also how the fan wants to take it or read into it. If there is a lack of favorability, ya certain fans will make it into what they want to. They let their opinions take over. Thats why unless you have actual facts, its all rumor!

They win as a team and loss as a team. And ya, if it was not Grahame in there it would be someone else and who can say it would be any different. If there was really a problem, the organization had plenty of opportunities to had made changes before now.

I don't think that this "consistency" thing has to do with who is in goal. It was the same problem as last year. Almost as like as soon as the wins came, they became lackadaisical. Then after a loss or two, the vigor came back. It looked like a cycle.

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It wasn't just "some reporter" that said that whatever is going on goes deep within the locker room, it was John Forslund and it was posted on his blog on WRAL. John and Tripp have full access to the team, stay in the same hotel they do, go to dinner with them, etc. so when they say something like that, I'm sorry but I think it's a lot more valid then what some newspaper reporter might say.

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