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Wolfer

What bothers me about Staal

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what really bothers me about Staal is his ability to score goals and how he's learning how to throw the body. We don't need that crap on our team :D

Sorry to dispute you Walker28 but to make it in today's game, you have to hit too. If we didn't get physical the other teams would walk all over us. (No pun intended.) ;)

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This is seriously the most rediculous post ever. Especially for a team struggling to score at the moment, does it really matter who is getting the goals and assists? The POINT is to put the PUCK in the NET. I don't care if the opposing team scores on themselves 5 times, I'll take it.

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If Staal gets 1 assist tonight vs Nashville, then it should be closed. However, if he gets more goals than assists it should remain open until a game when his assists exceed his goals.

I may be in the minority but I think you've raised a very valid observation and hit on a statistical nuance that may seem inconsequential to some. Asking that this thread be closed is a little much, IMO. Sure it's a subtle point so if people don't want to comment on it, I don't know why it can't just be skipped over.

With the even strength minutes Staal gets, most of any forward on the team, he should have more than 21 assists. The 27 goals are impressive but the ratio is out of balance and it goes beyond wingers not finishing. Part of the center's role is to create quality chances for others to score. I'll take the 27 goals but with 30 assists, for example, that would be a net gain of 9 additional goals for the team. It's not placing the blame squarely on Staal's shoulders but underscores the point that as your franchise centerman he needs to both score goals and set them up with regularity. He's done his part with goals but needs to boost his assists. With only 12 even strength assists, which places him 60th in the NHL among centers, there is room for improvement which would mean more goals and more wins.

If you look at the top 50 assist leaders among only centers, Staal is 44th and the only one who has more assists than goals. That is hard to ignore and supports your reasoning for bringing it up. As I posted earlier it tells me either he isn't making his linemates better or the Canes just aren't crashing the net to give him the put-back assists that he has accumulated in prior years. I think it's a combination of the two but a concern in either instance.

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Sorry to dispute you Walker28 but to make it in today's game, you have to hit too. If we didn't get physical the other teams would walk all over us. (No pun intended.) ;)

the entire post was sarcasm......

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I just don't see how you go from all star mvp to not getting a point in a game the week after. People can say its not him its the people around him not getting it done. But Frankily to be the star player he should atleast have 1 point out of those games.

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I just don't see how you go from all star mvp to not getting a point in a game the week after. People can say its not him its the people around him not getting it done. But Frankily to be the star player he should atleast have 1 point out of those games.

I'm really looking at the play of his linemates, Whitney and Stillman, who have had good plays, but with other players. (Ray's pass to Rod for the GWG against Toronto). Stillman has either been a ghost or is just losing the puck/not catching passes, and Whitney has just lost his shooting ability it seems like.

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Y'know, if you don't want to contribute to the discussion, those of you who whine, then don't come into the thread. This is a valid statistical discussion, if you don't like it, oh well.

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I'm still not 100% what's being discussed. Assists come directly from goals. So, if Staal's not getting assists, it's because whoever he's passing it to isn't scoring. So, why does their inability to score become Staal's responsibility?

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I'm still not 100% what's being discussed. Assists come directly from goals. So, if Staal's not getting assists, it's because whoever he's passing it to isn't scoring. So, why does their inability to score become Staal's responsibility?

Because Staal isn't telepathically helping his teammates put them into the net in the first place. Once he does a better job of supernaturally scoring goals and assisting on them, then he'll become the player that we really want him to be.

:rolleyes:

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I'll add another useless thought. With Eric doing so well in the ASG did that draw more attention to himself. If you were playing against him would you have added incentive to stop the ASG MVP? That said, others on his line need to get to open space and make it happen.

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I'm still not 100% what's being discussed. Assists come directly from goals. So, if Staal's not getting assists, it's because whoever he's passing it to isn't scoring. So, why does their inability to score become Staal's responsibility?

That is the question? Simply why? Is it their inability to score, or is Staal responsible? Many that post on this forum critique players and JR. So play GM and express yourself. Is there an issue, and if so what should be done?

Some seem to think this is not an issue, and that's fair. Others seem to think it is a symptom, e.g., wingers not scoring.

I'll say this. For anyone that wants to shut this thread down because they disagree, then you've got something else to really think about. I'd be more concerned about that than Staal's stats.

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I'll add another useless thought. With Eric doing so well in the ASG did that draw more attention to himself. If you were playing against him would you have added incentive to stop the ASG MVP? That said, others on his line need to get to open space and make it happen.

Teams don't target Staal because he is the ASG MVP. They target him because he is a scoring threat. He will likely face tight checking every game. The other players need to step it up. It could also be that he doesn't have confidence in his linemates to finish and he feels like he has to do it all, which is likely the case now. I don't think he is a selfish player.

I think the problem is that they are not great tape to tape passers and that is a problem.

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That is the question? Simply why? Is it their inability to score, or is Staal responsible? Many that post on this forum critique players and JR. So play GM and express yourself. Is there an issue, and if so what should be done?

Some seem to think this is not an issue, and that's fair. Others seem to think it is a symptom, e.g., wingers not scoring.

I'll say this. For anyone that wants to shut this thread down because they disagree, then you've got something else to really think about. I'd be more concerned about that than Staal's stats.

Well, I'll say this.....seems like every time I log on to this forum, all I see lately is negativity...complaints about Cam, complaints about Brindy, complaints about you name it. Obviously, the whole team is struggling this year, and it's not just about Eric's stats being upside down, backwards, or what have you. Defense has been a BIG problem, goal tending hasn't been consistent, scoring isn't what it should be. Now, I'm not a statistic guru, but I understand what you are saying - I did look up leading center's stats for the past 2 years (at your earlier suggestion) and I cannot disagree with you - he should be assisting more than scoring - BUT, look at last nights game - defense played well, and Cam was absolutely outstanding - but who put the puck in the net? Not any of our fowards - do you see where I'm going with this?

I guesss if you want to know why Eric's stats are upside down, you'll have to grab your crystal ball!! :D Or just accept that it is what it is. Everyone has to do their job in order for stats to be in-line, imo.

I do respect that you have your opinion, as everyone else here does - I just don't like nit pikin'!

In spite of it all, I LOVE MY 'CANES!!!!!

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Some players just naturally score more goals than assist due to on ice circumstances regardless of position. Say Staal becomes a monster infront of the net ala Cam Neeley and Scores 20 pp goals a year and has years with like 55 goals and 40 assists are we still going to complain? I know Neeley was a winger buy that is not my point. Also, you have to take into consideration that his wingers aren't really lighting the league on fire at this time. With Staal's size and the game he plays, he has always seemed to me atleast as more of a finisher than a playmaking centerman. I know in 2006 he racked up assists, but the team as a whole was rolling that year.

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Some seem to think this is not an issue, and that's fair. Others seem to think it is a symptom, e.g., wingers not scoring.

I'll say this. For anyone that wants to shut this thread down because they disagree, then you've got something else to really think about. I'd be more concerned about that than Staal's stats.

On your second point, amen. This is an intriguing discussion and it makes no sense to call for a thread lock b/c someone doesn't think so or get it. Read and move on dissenters. ;)

It's hard to ignore that Staal is the only - I repeat only - center in the top 50 assist leaders with an inverted goal:assist ratio and his assist total places him 44th. In his career, this is the only time it has happened so it begs the question, why? It's true he isn't the Savard or Thornton type of pass-first center but he has enough playmaking skill to have racked up more assists.

Part of a premier center's role is to set-up teammates and make them better. Part of that is putting them in position to score not just hoping they make a shot. Again, I think the point guard analogy in basketball holds. Forget the "wingers not finishing argument" b/c that doesn't explain it. If Staal was scoring at an incredible clip, say 40+ goals by now, you could better understand an imbalance. As it is, he projects roughly to 40 goals and 30 assists - the opposite of last year.

I never thought of Staal as an elite passer but he put up good assist totals in the past. I think the point is not that anyone would be happy with 21 goals and 27 assists b/c it nets out to the same number of pucks in the net but rather with his TOI, that he is producing more assists than goals.

Here is the key factor, in my view, that takes this from what some see as a statistical anomaly or overanalysis to being indicative of a bigger issue: many of Staal's assists in years past have come from redirects and put-backs. You don't really have control of that, vs. setting up a winger with a great pass who puts it in the open side of the net. So if his "true" passing hasn't diminished and he has been playing some combination of Whitney/Cole/Stillman who have 50+ goals collectively, you look to "indirect" assists. Those are usually there when a transition games is clicking and the center leads the rush or you have guys camped out down low.

Everyone knows the Canes don't get guys in the crease enough as well as the fact there is no good outlet passing from the D to jumpstart the transition game. Brindy is the kind of passer who can consistently make the threaded pass during a puck possession shift and so is Cullen. Staal isn't as good a passer as those two and often creates assists from shots. This to me just further highlights the need for a puck-moving Dman and a power forward (Ladd?) who will play down low instead of on the edges (Cole this year). That's my theory and I'm sticking to it. :lol:

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That is the question? Simply why? Is it their inability to score, or is Staal responsible? Many that post on this forum critique players and JR. So play GM and express yourself. Is there an issue, and if so what should be done?

I don't see how Staal could be considered responsible. If Staal makes a pass, and it doesn't reach the back of the net, it's because whoever he passed to couldn't bury their chance. Just like, if Brindamour makes a pass and it doesn't reach the back of the net, it's because whoever HE passed to couldn't bury it.

I'm honestly confused on how this could be construed as Staal's fault. It's an oddity, that's for sure, but the only issue I can see from this is that we're obviously not scoring enough to counteract our inane defense and lacking goaltending.

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But everyone is assuming that staal is making good passes and good decsions. But looking at his stats and the other peoples stats i am going to have to say i think there might be a chemistry problem. i would like to see him on a younger line.

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....I don't see how Staal could be considered responsible. If Staal makes a pass, and it doesn't reach the back of the net, it's because whoever he passed to couldn't bury their chance. Just like, if Brindamour makes a pass and it doesn't reach the back of the net, it's because whoever HE passed to couldn't bury it.

I'm honestly confused on how this could be construed as Staal's fault. It's an oddity, that's for sure, but the only issue I can see from this is that we're obviously not scoring enough to counteract our inane defense and lacking goaltending.

Valid points. However, it is only the other 4 players on the ice with Staal that aren't scoring compared to 49 of 50 other centers in the League. Those numbers go higher if you look at the last 2 years and the leading scoring centers.

BTW, Stillman has the highest "Shooting Percentage" on the team.

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Valid points. However, it is only the other 4 players on the ice with Staal that aren't scoring compared to 49 of 50 other centers in the League. Those numbers go higher if you look at the last 2 years and the leading scoring centers.

BTW, Stillman has the highest "Shooting Percentage" on the team.

...What? I still don't get what you're trying to say. I think you're complaining just to be complaining.

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...What? I still don't get what you're trying to say. I think you're complaining just to be complaining.

Wrong, not complaining but as the title says it does bother me. The fact is Staal has upside down stats for goals vs assists. He is pretty much alone as a center in the NHL. I'm asking why this is? Some have suggested it is the wingers not finishing. That would extend to the other 4 players skating out there with Staal. Those players, including the wingers, have varied as linemates this year. Maybe they all can't finish.

As for Stiller, who some have mentioned as one of the wingers flanking Staal, he leads the team in shooting pct. Maybe he's not shooting enough to boost Staal's assists, despite the accuracy (yeah, right).

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Wrong, not complaining but as the title says it does bother me. The fact is Staal has upside down stats for goals vs assists. He is pretty much alone as a center in the NHL. I'm asking why this is? Some have suggested it is the wingers not finishing. That would extend to the other 4 players skating out there with Staal. Those players, including the wingers, have varied as linemates this year. Maybe they all can't finish.

As for Stiller, who some have mentioned as one of the wingers flanking Staal, he leads the team in shooting pct. Maybe he's not shooting enough to boost Staal's assists, despite the accuracy (yeah, right).

Well, to use Stillman as an example, when was the last time he scored? I believe it was the Islanders OT game before the ASG break. And Staal made the pass to get him that goal.

Now, before that goal, when was the last time he scored? It's been a while. You wanted an answer, and there it is. Staal, at the moment, has Stillman and usually Whitney as wingers. Neither one has scored in quite a while. However, they are both playmakers, and as such, they're the ones making the passes so Staal can score.

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Well, to use Stillman as an example, when was the last time he scored? I believe it was the Islanders OT game before the ASG break. And Staal made the pass to get him that goal.

Now, before that goal, when was the last time he scored? It's been a while. You wanted an answer, and there it is. Staal, at the moment, has Stillman and usually Whitney as wingers. Neither one has scored in quite a while. However, they are both playmakers, and as such, they're the ones making the passes so Staal can score.

Last 5 games, Stiller 2 assists, Whitney 4 assists, Staal no assists, but 1 goal. He's really filling it up! Since, Stiller and Whitney have zero goals, they're clearly the reason Staal has no assists in the minds of some.

Consider this, if imaginable: Maybe they're not being fed instead of they're too busy doing the feeding.

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