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Patchell84

Goodbye Andrew Ladd, Hello Ruutu

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Nope. I stand by my stance. JR should not have traded Ladd. Not saying Ruutu hasn't been a great pickup, but trading Ladd for him wasn't a smart move.

How do we know if it was a smart move or not a whole 5 games in to the trade?

I think so far the team has played well with Ruutus hitting.

who knows if Ladd were here if the Canes would be playing as well?

I wish Ladd well but I think so far so good in the all important thing the Standings B)

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On the Ruutu trade,for some reason he has just seemed to gel with the team better. His style of play seems to go with the"NEW CANES" style of play.

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Still think Rutherford got fleeced in the Ladd trade. Not that I don't like Ruutu and not that I didn't want him on this team--but to give up a younger player, who was playing well on a top line and the insurance against a Cole injury/trade/non-signing--for a player who has already comtemplated retirement because of injury and has not found any kind of scoring touch since he was rookie and was not in the favor of the Blackhawk's management when was traded--just isn't a good trade. The Blackhawk's gave up nothing for something and the most the Canes got was a parallel trade.

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Still think Rutherford got fleeced in the Ladd trade. Not that I don't like Ruutu and not that I didn't want him on this team--but to give up a younger player, who was playing well on a top line and the insurance against a Cole injury/trade/non-signing--for a player who has already comtemplated retirement because of injury and has not found any kind of scoring touch since he was rookie and was not in the favor of the Blackhawk's management when was traded--just isn't a good trade. The Blackhawk's gave up nothing for something and the most the Canes got was a parallel trade.

Too soon to tell for me. We needed what Ruutu had. Was a case of we had to have a center.(3 position flexibility,Toughness)

Ladd is only 2 years younger so not sure that is significant. Might be if they were both over 30.

Ladd only began to play well recently and had much more not so good stats over the past few years.

Ruutu had 38 points last season and Ladd 21.

We will see.

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Too soon to tell for me. We needed what Ruutu had. Was a case of we had to have a center.(3 position flexibility,Toughness)

Ladd is only 2 years younger so not sure that is significant. Might be if they were both over 30.

Ladd only began to play well recently and had much more not so good stats over the past few years.

Ruutu had 38 points last season and Ladd 21.

We will see.

He doesn't play center for us, he didn't play center for the Hawks--just because he "could" doesn't mean he would

The age diff is closer to 3 years based on birthadays--and it makes a bigger diff now than it would 3 years from now.

Ladd only began to get healthy and get minutes after everybody got hurt--and he was used as a 3rd or 4th line grinder while he was getting used to the league (granted he never showed he was ready for a bigger role earlier)--he's a power forward and it takes longer for those to develop. And of our top 6 last year--Rod, Staal, Whitney, Williams, Cole, Stillman/Walker--who would take minutes from? He's wasn't ready to supplant them--but he was being groomed to replace some of them in a few years.

Ruutu had more point in more minutes on a higher line--but still less than his rookie year---and this year--Ladd had more points in less games, with less minutes.

But the point is--Chicago had given up on him and we traded one of our best young players for him. We gave up nothing for Sammy--why give up the future for another player headed for the same pile he came from?

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Why give up Ladd for Ruutu? Well you could look at the fact that Ruutu had 108 points in 228 career games (.47p/g), whereas Ladd had 50 in 137 (.36p/g). Ruutu has played in 82, 15, 71, and 60 games.. Ladd 29, 65, and 43.

But the reason I'm happy with the trade is:

8469462.jpg

Dude took his official team photo looking like the guy from Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

Wow.

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Why give up Ladd for Ruutu? Well you could look at the fact that Ruutu had 108 points in 228 career games (.47p/g), whereas Ladd had 50 in 137 (.36p/g). Ruutu has played in 82, 15, 71, and 60 games.. Ladd 29, 65, and 43.

But the reason I'm happy with the trade is:

8469462.jpg

Dude took his official team photo looking like the guy from Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

Wow.

And he is smiling. Which only a couple of other players did.

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He doesn't play center for us, he didn't play center for the Hawks--just because he "could" doesn't mean he would

The age diff is closer to 3 years based on birthadays--and it makes a bigger diff now than it would 3 years from now.

Ladd only began to get healthy and get minutes after everybody got hurt--and he was used as a 3rd or 4th line grinder while he was getting used to the league (granted he never showed he was ready for a bigger role earlier)--he's a power forward and it takes longer for those to develop. And of our top 6 last year--Rod, Staal, Whitney, Williams, Cole, Stillman/Walker--who would take minutes from? He's wasn't ready to supplant them--but he was being groomed to replace some of them in a few years.

Ruutu had more point in more minutes on a higher line--but still less than his rookie year---and this year--Ladd had more points in less games, with less minutes.

But the point is--Chicago had given up on him and we traded one of our best young players for him. We gave up nothing for Sammy--why give up the future for another player headed for the same pile he came from?

He did played center for Chicago, just not that often this year. When paired with Lang for a few games, Lang would take the draw and they'd switch responsibilities after the draw. He played alot more C in his earlier years for sure. Even last year I rememebr in the 3rd period of a Phoneix game the Hawks were down and Ruutu was taking alot of the draws. Phoenix kept sending Perrault out of course. Ruutie won 6 of 7 on Yanic, the best faceoff man in thew game, in the third alone. The point is he can play C effectively, would, and will if another C gets hurt. Ruutu did not play top line minutes with top line players. He did at the beginning of the year, when the Hawks had their best record, Toews and Kane were over a Pt/G pace, and he was on a .7 pace. Similar to the point production he is giving the Canes now. He got shuffled around all year long from 1st to the 4th more than Ladd did. The Hawks 4th line consisted of Ruutu, Adam, 1 goal and that was set up by Ruutu, Burish, and one of Craig Adams/Ben Eager/Kevin Adams/Yanic/Browuer/Versteeg when they were up from the A and/or not hurt. Quit complaining, we are 6-1 with Ruutu the P/K has improved (despite your earlier claim he is not a PKer based on how that idiot Savard played him there) You clearly have *edit*for Ladd, we get it, but don't discount what Ruutu brings because of it. You certainly have a problem with Ruutu becuase of the trade or in general, despite assurance from you that you do not. They are different players that both teams needed. This will pay even bigger dividends come playoff time.

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He did played center for Chicago, just not that often this year. When paired with Lang for a few games, Lang would take the draw and they'd switch responsibilities after the draw. He played alot more C in his earlier years for sure. Even last year I rememebr in the 3rd period of a Phoneix game the Hawks were down and Ruutu was taking alot of the draws. Phoenix kept sending Perrault out of course. Ruutie won 6 of 7 on Yanic, the best faceoff man in thew game, in the third alone. The point is he can play C effectively, would, and will if another C gets hurt. Ruutu did not play top line minutes with top line players. He did at the beginning of the year, when the Hawks had their best record, Toews and Kane were over a Pt/G pace, and he was on a .7 pace. Similar to the point production he is giving the Canes now. He got shuffled around all year long from 1st to the 4th more than Ladd did. The Hawks 4th line consisted of Ruutu, Adam, 1 goal and that was set up by Ruutu, Burish, and one of Craig Adams/Ben Eager/Kevin Adams/Yanic/Browuer/Versteeg when they were up from the A and/or not hurt. Quit complaining, we are 6-1 with Ruutu the P/K has improved (despite your earlier claim he is not a PKer based on how that idiot Savard played him there) You clearly have hard ** for Ladd, we get it, but don't discount what Ruutu brings because of it. You certainly have a problem with Ruutu becuase of the trade or in general, despite assurance from you that you do not. They are different players that both teams needed. This will pay even bigger dividends come playoff time.

I know this issue is merely a matter of opinion and has no right or wrong answer. I am very pleased with the trade. From my perspective, the Hurricanes prior to getting Ruutu/Samsonov/Corvo/Eaves just didn't come to play every shift every game. Ruutu added a missing ingredient of passionate play and hard-hitting that we needed. He also has the ability to handle the puck and to score. Ladd has enormous potential. Ruutu has enormous potential. Ruutu brings the full load every second on the ice and gains space for the people on his line. He also fires up the team and one cannot discount the role played by emotion in the NHL. We are a better team with Ruutu, I believe, than we were with Ladd.

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I'm just going to say that I love the way Ruutu pronounces "Carolina Hurricanes." Like in yesterday's interview with Tripp, he said:

"I'm just glad to be playing for Care-line Her-canes"

He seems like a great guy, and I'm proud to say that I saw him score his first goal with the Hurricanes in person.

RUUU!

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1--Savard is a borderline idiot for bailing on Sammy and not having a consistant line from game to game--or even within games, where have I ever disputed that...

2--Never claimed Ruutu couldn't play the PK--you are confused

3--Fact is Ruutu was on the ice more than all but 2 of the present Blackhawk forwards--and almost 16 min a game TOI--hard not to score a goal in 30 games with that ice time. As a comparison--Ladd averages 12.26 for the year

4--Which game was this "feat" of face off-magic against PHX? He was 6 of 7 in one game--only 1 against Yannick. Fact is, he only avg. slightly over 4 face-offs a game in his best year and never was better than 47% in any year.

5--Fact--I would Ladd and Ruutu on the same team. Again no problem with Ruutu--I think we could have gotten him much cheaper than the cost. Chicago is run by idiots and they won this trade.

6--The Canes were fine before they got Ruutu as well, they were 6-1 in the 7 games before the trade

7--Someone with the screen name Ruutu fan says I have an unhealthy attraction to a player?

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1--Savard is a borderline idiot for bailing on Sammy and not having a consistant line from game to game--or even within games, where have I ever disputed that...

2--Never claimed Ruutu couldn't play the PK--you are confused

3--Fact is Ruutu was on the ice more than all but 2 of the present Blackhawk forwards--and almost 16 min a game TOI--hard not to score a goal in 30 games with that ice time. As a comparison--Ladd averages 12.26 for the year

4--Which game was this "feat" of face off-magic against PHX? He was 6 of 7 in one game--only 1 against Yannick. Fact is, he only avg. slightly over 4 face-offs a game in his best year and never was better than 47% in any year.

5--Fact--I would Ladd and Ruutu on the same team. Again no problem with Ruutu--I think we could have gotten him much cheaper than the cost. Chicago is run by idiots and they won this trade.

6--The Canes were fine before they got Ruutu as well, they were 6-1 in the 7 games before the trade

7--Someone with the screen name Ruutu fan says I have an unhealthy attraction to a player?

1. I did not state or mean to insinuate you believed Savard to be a sound coach, I was just bashing Savard's inability to use players correctly. So we agree.

2. My bad for confusing another's post. I apologize if I "misremembered". I am not going to dig around. Someone said he can play the PK. Someone replied he can't because he only gets secondary minutes.

3. You are very confused about his playing time and apparently do not take into account linemates. You say he didn't produce with top line guys like Toews and Kane. He did. He stopped producing when he played on the 3rd and 4th line, kind of like Ladd. You keep talking about his point totals when playing on the 3rd and 4th lines. He is not 3rd in total minutes or min/game. Kane, Toews, Havlat, Williams, Sharp, Lang, Bourque, all had more per game. That makes him the 8th not the 3rd. The 15:50 takes into account his recent increase so I used his Chicago minutes of just over 15. 15 minutes is not top line minutes on a very young team with a lot of injuries. And he averaged about 14 over the last 30 games. He certainly should have put in more. It is not reflective of his ability, ask Samsonov how easy it was to score goals with Adam Burish.

4. This feat you seemingly question was accomplished on 1-7-07 in Chicago. I was just saying he is capable of playing C and has done so on the Hawks, I didn't say he was the best face off man ever. You said he doesn't play C, clearly he does. I was pointing out the fact you can't just look at face offs and say he didn't have any so he didn't play C that day, in case that is how you determined he doesn't. There is more to it than taking the draw.

5. Definately could not had him for much cheaper. The Hawks would never have taken a AHL player for him. I guess if you could provide an example we could argue it. If we could have traded a pick I am all for it. No way the Hawks take a pick though. The Hawks also do not need any prospects. Ladd is big and stands in front of the net. Something they needed.

6. The Canes were 32-28 and hardly in the playoffs. Now they are almost a certainty. The team is better today than it was two weeks ago.

7. I am not on Hawks boards bashing Ladd, because of my unhelathy attraction to Ruutu, which I admittedly have. I like Ladd too and think he is a fine player just getting started. He has skills, I haven't bashed him, and if I were to have a real debate on his value I would certainly point out what he does well instead of continuously posting the same negative comments over and over. Your critcism of Ruutu appears to be based on your feelings about Ladd's ability and use here.

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And he is smiling. Which only a couple of other players did.

he's ALWAYS smiling. that's one of the things that's so great about him.. he's got one heck of a bubbly personality. his good humor is infectious.

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Only time will tell who got the better of this trade in the end. For now though, in the immediate future, I think that both sides win. I think that we are better off right now with Ruutu than with Ladd. Stats only tell part of the story. I can't remember a player on our team coming down and hitting the opposing defenseman hard enough for us to get what amounts to a turnover, and get posession of the puck in the offensive zone, more often than this guy does it (that was a pretty long sentence). Also, just watching him, he seems to have the skills, and his enthusiasm, dang, that has got to rub off. Of course both of our ex Blackhawks seem to have a new lease on life.

Ladd has shown flashes, I thought at the start of the year he looked great, so we may well end up on the wrong side of this long term, still both guys have huge potential, and Ruutu helps us more now. So, my early view. Good trade.

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Formatting might be a little messed up, but here it is for people who like stats:

Player...GP...G...A.....Pts.....PIM.....+/-.....H......GV.....TK........Team Record

Ruutu....7......1...3......4........4.......+1.....20.......2......6..........6-1-0

Ladd..... 9......2...4.....6........0.........0.....19........2......2..........4-4-1

I compiled the +/-, hits, giveaways, and takeaways from the super stats from each Canes and Hawks game since the trade, so it's possible that I added wrong somewhere, but I think this is accurate. Looks like a wash so far, but what can you really tell from the stats of <10 games?

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People forget stat's are not everything!! Tuomo brings more physical play than Laddy did, and a great personality which means alot in a locker room, you can tell he's happy to be here and want's to make an impact, he's shown me a 110% every game so far. The main thing is, Ruty's here and Ladd is not. I put my faith in JR that this will work out in the end for both teams...

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People forget stat's are not everything!!

Oh, certainly! I think they're still fun, though. The way Ruutu gets in on the forecheck, crashes into people, digs out pucks, and creates space for Staal and Cole is not reflected on the scoresheet (except in hits and maybe in takeaways). At the beginning of the season, I was hoping to see Ladd on a line with Cole and Staal so the Canes would have a big wrecking crew to contrast with the Whitney/Brind'Amour/Williams line's fancy plays and passing. Well, Ladd's gone, but Ruutu is filling that role nicely.

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he's ALWAYS smiling. that's one of the things that's so great about him.. he's got one heck of a bubbly personality. his good humor is infectious.
One mid-season pick up by the Canes that really helped turn the season and lead to a long playoff run in the Cane's past was Sean Hill in the 01-02 season and Cup run. He was a guy with an easy smile and upbeat. Erik Cole was just talking in this week's Cane's Corner interview about how good a locker room guy Hill was. Mo' and JR both said that his enthusiasm really helped lift that team into another gear. Ruutu has the same potential here...a real hard nosed player (like Hill) with the same potential to lift the enthusiasm of those around him. A nice intangible that doesn't show in the stats.

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