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airborne_cane

Brooks Orpik

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If it wasn't for the fact that he almost ended cole's career people would think of orpick a lot differently. In my opinion he actually would be a great pickup I just don't see it happening because of what has happened in the past. Did anyone see that 4 hit shift he had in the Finals? He always seems to be in the right position and he's a physical presence. He played with Gonchar so he might be a good fit with Corvo. I say what happened in the past happened, can't let it bother you forever, and I wouldn't mind at all if he was signed by the 'Canes, especially if Cole is traded for another offensive dman.

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We don't have money to go after a major UFA. Orpik will likely command close to $4M. We will get our main top-pairing defenseman via trade and maybe get an inexpensive second/third-pairing one on the free agent market.

I agree that Orpik is grossly overvalued because of the playoffs. He was 7th among Penguins defenseman in average ice time during the regular season (8th if you count Hal Gill), was a healthy scratch at times and even played left wing a bit.

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You don't think trading away Cole and picking up the guy who almost ended his career would be construed as a little bit in bad taste?

Orpik's a good D-man, there's no doubt about that. The public outcry would be far too high if we signed him though.

We don't have money to go after a major UFA. Orpik will likely command close to $4M. We will get our main top-pairing defenseman via trade and maybe get an inexpensive second/third-pairing one on the free agent market.

Pretty sure with the loss of Grahame, Hedican, and Wesley, and the increased salary cap, we're going to have quite a bit of space to work with. And if we trade Cole, that's another 4 million minus the salary of the D-men gotten for him.

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We don't have money to go after a major UFA. Orpik will likely command close to $4M. We will get our main top-pairing defenseman via trade and maybe get an inexpensive second/third-pairing one on the free agent market.

I agree that Orpik is grossly overvalued because of the playoffs. He was 7th among Penguins defenseman in average ice time during the regular season (8th if you count Hal Gill), was a healthy scratch at times and even played left wing a bit.

Just posted something similar in the Around the League.

Even though the Canes will have some money to work with, JR usually goes with players that aren't at the top of everyone's FA lists because they don't cost quite as much. While we may be able to afford to pay a D FA $4 mil, that doesn't mean we'll be willing to spend it on Orpik. Not to mention we need to look at picking up two good D-men to fill holes with all that "extra" cash, not just throw it at one overvalued D.

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Pretty sure with the loss of Grahame, Hedican, and Wesley, and the increased salary cap, we're going to have quite a bit of space to work with. And if we trade Cole, that's another 4 million minus the salary of the D-men gotten for him.
We operate by our own internal budget, so what the salary cap does means nothing to us. The salary of Grahame/Hedican/Wesley will mostly go towards re-signing our RFAs+Samsonov/Leighton.

I would hope that whatever defenseman we get for Cole/whoever would be a legit top-pairing defenseman and thus would make a hefty salary. If we get someone like Derek Morris or Kevin Bieksa in exchange, we're only saving a few hundred thousand.

JRs quote in the paper indicates that the main defenseman will come through a trade: "I would suspect we'll add one defenseman through a trade, and if we have to add two, then maybe one through free agency."

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The salary cap does mean something. Yes, JR's set up his own salary cap, a cap he's repeatedly stated he's willing to break if the right deal comes along, and a cap that's direct correlated to the league salary cap.

And that JR quote means, to me, that he'll grab a D-man through trade (most likely Cole), and then grab 1 through free agency, since 1 defenseman does not replace two.

There's also the fact that Gleason's being difficult to re-sign, so that should also factor into this. If we can only get Gleason for 1 more year, we're going to need to grab a good FA defenseman for the long term.

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...

JRs quote in the paper indicates that the main defenseman will come through a trade: "I would suspect we'll add one defenseman through a trade, and if we have to add two, then maybe one through free agency."

Just a note on what I posted above, I do realize JR has said that quote.

But the way I look at it is, whether it is via trade or FA, whatever D we pull in are likely to be making a higher salary than we're used to seeing from D on the Canes. Meaning that they'll be eating up the salary "freed up" from Hedican, Wesley, and Grahame. Which is what I meant - not that we'll sign two FA's, but that we'll use that money for the two D we need as it counts towards the salary cap. ;)

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The salary cap does mean something. Yes, JR's set up his own salary cap, a cap he's repeated stated he's willing to break if the right deal comes along, and a cap that's direct correlated to the league salary cap.
Ok, but I don't think Brooks Orpik constitutes the "right deal." He's a second-pairing defenseman at best.

And that JR quote means, to me, that he'll grab a D-man through trade (most likely Cole), and then grab 1 through free agency, since 1 defenseman does not replace two.
He said "if" we had to add two, then "maybe" we'll sign a UFA. He seemed certain that we would add one through trade. JR wouldn't rule out bringing Babchuk back, so maybe that's where that second replacement defenseman is coming from.

There's also the fact that Gleason's being difficult to re-sign, so that should also factor into this. If we can only get Gleason for 1 more year, we're going to need to grab a good FA defenseman for the long term.
Gleason will still be a RFA after next year if he signs a one-year deal.

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Ok, but I don't think Brooks Orpik constitutes the "right deal." He's a second-pairing defenseman at best.

He said "if" we had to add two, then "maybe" they'll sign a UFA. He seemed certain that we would add one through trade. JR wouldn't rule out bringing Babchuk back, so maybe that's where that second replacement defenseman is coming from.

Gleason will still be a RFA after next year if he signs a one-year deal.

I already said I don't think Orpik would be a good signing. As for Babchuk, I wouldn't mind having him back, but JR seems like the one to hold a grudge.

And yes, Gleason will still be an RFA, but if he's difficult to sign now, what would make him any easier to sign later? Apparently, JR's offering him a long term deal, which he's probably refusing because it's eating into his free agency years at an age where he's set to make the most money in free agency.

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I know I opened a can of worms with this topic, and probably touched some raw nerves. My intention wasn't to start a new defenseman thread. An earlier post brought up a great point on the possible scenario of Cole leaving and Orpik arriving. I know the Caniac Nation would have a hard time accepting this. This creates quite the dilemma: Would we not support a player that could help the team because we don't like him? Is the management willing to field the best team possible irregardless of fan opinion? Tough choices. Glad I'm not a GM.

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Brooks Orpik delivered what every team, fan, and coach wants during the playoffs. You can think about the season, but you also have to think about the playoffs. Orpik showed he can bring in in very big games. Did he blunder? Sure. He was caught off guard. I wouldn't consider him our #1 defenseman by any means, BUT, it still wouldn't be a bad idea to have him, or if anyone can name others with similar play like him, depending on the price of course.

And the bit about what happened in the past, happened in the past doesn't really apply when your career was almost ended, and the thought of paralyzation enters your mind. Being nailed by a good check and knocking the wind out of you is one thing, but what Cole endured was probably one of the scariest things to happen to him. I don't think he'd just let bygones be bygones.

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And yes, Gleason will still be an RFA, but if he's difficult to sign now, what would make him any easier to sign later? Apparently, JR's offering him a long term deal, which he's probably refusing because it's eating into his free agency years at an age where he's set to make the most money in free agency.
Gleason likely wants to be paid like a top-pairing defenseman on any long term deal, but Rutherford doesn't want to pay him that because he hasn't proven himself to be one.

Cole and Williams were both two years away from being able to become UFAs in 2005. Both signed one-year deals, had great seasons and then signed long term the next summer. Just because someone signs a one-year deal doesn't mean they are going to bolt at first opportunity. It often means that they want to be able to prove themselves to get a big contract.

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I know I opened a can of worms with this topic, and probably touched some raw nerves. My intention wasn't to start a new defenseman thread. An earlier post brought up a great point on the possible scenario of Cole leaving and Orpik arriving. I know the Caniac Nation would have a hard time accepting this. This creates quite the dilemma: Would we not support a player that could help the team because we don't like him? Is the management willing to field the best team possible irregardless of fan opinion? Tough choices. Glad I'm not a GM.

No worries. Things are going to be pretty sporadic for us Canes fans for the next couple of months. Lots of idle time, then absolute craziness as a trade or FA signing happens. So we need things to discuss and debate. :)

You do raise a very good question, though, about bringing in a player that fans/players on the team have something against. At this point it's still a sticking point, though it likely has faded somewhat over the two years since. Part of it is that not only is Cole still here, but so are many of the players from the 05-06 team. And the Canes are a very close-knit team. So even if Cole were to be traded, there's still a lot of guys that remember that hit. You have to remember that this team is built around a strong sense of team, and attitudes of the players are closely evaluated before someone new is brought in. Though we are starting to see many of the faces from that year leaving, so it will start to fade where maybe one day it wouldn't be such a concern. Especially if Cole ends up leaving along with more of that group.

As for the fans, it will fade somewhat over time with us, too. Much of that will depend on what happens in the Canes/Pens games. Considering injuries seem to be a regular occurrence every year for the Canes when they play, it only serves to dig up the feelings of Cole being injured. Some will never forget, but with others that feeling will slowly go away.

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Orpik did try to get in contact with him through Recchi, trying to apologize or whatnot. But Colesy wanted nothing to do with it at the time. Don't know about now.

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i just can't see a person meaning to do what he did, he was trying to drive cole into the boards but then cole turns to the right to duck the hit and at that point physics took over. yeah i was extremely pissed when it happened and i was calling for his head like i'm sure all of you were, cole was taking off at that point in the season too. now i know this would never happen and pirate caniac made a huge point, but the fact is orpik is a lot better than a lot of people will give him credit for just because of what happened in the past.

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Orpik's hit on Cole was only a borderline hit. That is why his suspension was short. If Cole wasn't hurt, he would not have been suspended. Cole went to the boards recklessly and lost an edge. Orpik should have done more to avoid Cole. The hit on Staal this past season was much worse and I don't even remember who hit him because he was not injured. Orpik is a guy who hits everything. He is very uncomfortable to play against. That is the kind of player we need. I doubt Cole would be that upset if we signed him. As fans, we think we are part of the room, but the truth is, we don't know what the players think about each other. I am sure we have guys now that don't really like each other. Have you ever seen a fight in camp? All that said, I don't see Orpik being interested in playing in a system that is not a good fit for him. He is the type of player that would fit in better with a team like the Ducks of flames. That is probably part of the reason we are having trouble signing Gleason. He could sign with us for four years and still have his prime FA left after that. His value after four years will be higher if he plays in a checking/ trapping system. We need to trade for a shutdown type defenseman because shutdown types don't usually want to play in a wide open system where they are left out to dry so often. That is why not signing Aaron Ward after the cup run was a bad move. He played that roll well and liked the area. We should not persue him now because he is three years older. Look for our shutdown defenseman to be tall beacause when you are facing a two on one, reach is a huge asset and two on ones very common in our system (I still consider it a two on one when it is a two on two with a forward back.)

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Orpik did try to get in contact with him through Recchi, trying to apologize or whatnot. But Colesy wanted nothing to do with it at the time. Don't know about now.

It was definitely a good while later and Cole shrugged him off saying it should have come sooner. I think it just felt insincere(sp?)

I like the way he plays, but I just would have a hard time rooting for him.

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If we go the FA route and are willing to spend Orpik type money, why not go after someone who won't anger most of the fans?

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Orpik did try to get in contact with him through Recchi, trying to apologize or whatnot. But Colesy wanted nothing to do with it at the time. Don't know about now.

It was a month later and before all that Orpik kept saying how he did nothing wrong, when he clearly did. After a month why even bother, guilty conscious I guess.

However, to answer the OP, Orpik did well in the playoffs, but IMO he is overrated. Besides I don't want to pay Orpik $4M a year for 1 good year when we won't even pay Gleason $4M for 1 good year. If we are going to spend $4M, I'd rather give it to Gleason who has the potential to be a top defenseman in this league, Orpik does not.

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